I need help defending!

[Elric of Grans]

I cannot remember ever feeling so helpless in a fighting game before. There is obviously something very fundamental in DoA's defence systems that I am failing to grasp and it leaves me utterly helpless. I am frequently being Perfected by the easiest AI, so this is clearly an issue on absolute fundamentals rather than something that requires any amazing experience to do.

Firstly, I try to Block (Fighting Games 101). This works about 70% of the time, the rest I guess the attack was Low and I misinterpreted it as Mid. The percentage is improving, so I guess practice is helping me to better read the level of the attack. Often I think the AI has finished its sequence and try to open my own attack (simple jab) only to suffer a counter attack. I guess this is an experience issue. Once I get more used to reading the basic attack sequences, I should be able to better understand when I can attack. I also almost never successfully Throw Escape. I suspect this is also an experience issue as I just need more practice to get the timing.

Where things go horridly wrong is when I am hit and cannot Block afterwards. I try to Hold like the Tutorial teaches you. I can do this 100% of the time in the Tutorial; 0% of the time against an AI. Even guessing the wrong Hold to use most of the time, I should have some small success rate! Every single time I get hit and cannot block afterwards, the AI is free to hit me around like a ragdoll for the rest of the round. This seems to be where I am missing something, as I cannot seem to do anything after the first stun.

I also almost never successfully do the speed-up recovery technique, even in in the Tutorial. I have replayed that Tutorial several times, spend 10 minutes holding Block and spinning the joystick as fast as I can. I fail repeatedly, only to suddenly succeed when I did not seem to do anything different to the umpteen failures. I have no idea what is happening here! My inability to ever do this is likely a significant part of my problem.

Are there any other fundamentals that I have missed that may lead to my complete inability to defend?

 

[Chapstick]

How long have you been playing this, just curious?

Also holding the AI is tricky. Sometimes they're predictable (for example Akira and Ayane use a lot of mid punches) and sometimes they use the opposite of what you're holding because it's the AI and it knows what your inputs are.

I'm trying to think of something that would help other than more experience and knowledge of the game and characters' moves and frame data. You can go in training mode and fight any character without worrying about getting KO'd to get more used to how they fight. It's under "COM ACTION" or something like that. You can also run through the command trainings to get an idea of their movelists to know where strings end.

 

[Lulu]

Don't worry about it.... The A.I. Cheats.

You're probably better than you think you are.

 

[Brute]

The AI does cheat, but there are some things (not incredibly easy things) you can do to mitigate that.

When it comes to holds, try to delay your hold as long as possible. Ideally, you don't want to actually execute your hold attempt before the attack that you're trying to hold has begun. If you do, the AI can simply cancel their string and HiC throw you. It's very intuitive to toss out your hold right after the previous trike has connected to buffer the window and catch the next attack, but the AI is very good at punishing you for that.

Throws are interesting in DOA. They are very fast and typically can't be escaped (only neutral throws and chain throws can be escaped; standard command throws are inescapable), but they also cannot connect on an attacking opponent (unless they are an Offensive Hold [OH]). Normally, a common strategy against guarding opponents is to jab-jab-throw (PP 6T) due to how quick throws are (i6-i7) and how delay windows work from most jab strings. This is rarely effective against the AI, however, as they will miraculously start attacking the moment you press throw.

Sadly, the best strategy against the AI is just crazy offense. They will bum-rush you at any range, so learn your spacing/zoning pokes to play keep-away. Up close, use you fastest pokes and try to lead into a NH stun or score a deep CH. If that doesn't work, just go for a quick knockback and return to your spacing game. As for defense, I would suggest primarily relying on your crushes. Depending on your character, you'll probably have a good, fast high crush that either provides a nice stun or CH launch, so get in the habit of tossing that out when you think they'll go for a high attack or a throw.

Fighting the AI is very different from fighting players, though, so if you feel like you're helpless don't get too off-put.

 

[Elric of Grans]

I have only been playing for a couple of days. I am trying to learn the absolute basics of the game so I can hope to then learn a character to main. Normally in fighting games, the easiest-level AI can be easily blocked and beaten by spamming Jab (a good way to practice block-and-punish in a new system), but in this game I frequently get pummelled up and down the arena all round and cannot input a single damned thing. Surely the *easiest* AI cannot cheat so much as to make it impossible for the player to act, so there must be *something* I am doing wrong!

I tried using Hold only after the opponent moved in Training. Knowing exactly what attack was coming (and therefore which input) but not the timing, I could succeed on REALLY slow attacks 70% of the time and normal attacks 0% of the time. They hit before I see the character move. I probably could have done it 20 years ago, but I do not have the eyesight or reaction speed for that any more. If I cannot buffer it a few frames in advance, I have zero chance of success.

 

[Chapstick]

I have only been playing for a couple of days.

It all comes down to experience vs characters and knowing what to possibly expect from them which gets harder and harder as they add more. As you play more you'll get used to what they can do.

I am trying to learn the absolute basics of the game so I can hope to then learn a character to main.

Combo challenges and command training help with that. Also some beginner-friendly characters as you're feeling things out are Hitomi, Momiji, and Rachel with Rachel being the most basic but she's also slow. Most characters are mash-friendly but I'd say probably the most mash-friendly off the top of my head are Alpha, Kasumi, and Christie.

Normally in fighting games, the easiest-level AI can be easily blocked and beaten by spamming Jab (a good way to practice block-and-punish in a new system), but in this game I frequently get pummelled up and down the arena all round and cannot input a single damned thing. Surely the *easiest* AI cannot cheat so much as to make it impossible for the player to act, so there must be *something* I am doing wrong!

To be honest that's how it is in DOA5. If you pick pretty much any character vs any character on the easiest AI you can mash P until you win and you'll probably get a greatest without blocking once. I noticed the AI on easiest even has a habit of auto-throwing when you strike so it gives you massive damage from hi-countering it.

 

[Brute]

If you're on Core Fighters, consider picking Hayate. He's the most basic bitch of them all. Just don't bother with the Raijin.

 

[Lulu]

Also make sure you're TV is set to Game/Sports Mode if it has that feature. This is normally found in Large TVs with Ultra High Resolutions.

This usually isn't necessary for most games but its necessary for Fighting Games.... Display Latency can really mess up your Reaction Times.

 

[Rikuto]

Up to level 4 it uses pattern recognition to fight you. It builds that pattern recognition library over time. from 5-6 it uses a mix of pattern recognition and input reads (aka cheating).

7-8 is all input reads (pure cheating).

Level 9 is Wazaaaaa's bot.

 

[Chapstick]

Level 8 is exploitable to a point. Like if you're fighting Rachel or Mai all you need is Nyo's H+K because they sidestep constantly whether or not you're using tracking moves. But outside of stuff like that it feels like you're just getting lucky with it letting you hit it occasionally. Tina's level 8 AI will hold you over and over and over and over and over

 

[KasumiLover]

I usually myself play on hard or champ for practice, any modes above that are just cheating and I do those on occasion, I don't take Legend seriously at all, mix up you get held, be obvious you get held. Tech roll you get light or heavy ground struck, sidestep they use a tracking move, block they throw, throw they strike, strike they hold, hold they throw, try to CB they hold or SE, wake up kick they hold that shit....you get the picture. They made it much harder in LR, in Ultimate it was actually quite easy and I would use Phase and Marie. Now I'm forced to use Phase or Naotora and that's only because the AI is vulnerable to spacing and zoning...

It makes DOA4 AI seem legit, I'd take that AI over Legend anyday. XD

 

[TheDragonAwakens]

From what I am most familiar with from my experience with the AI :

Akira guards almost all the time.
Ein appears to spam holds when he is stunned.
When Alpha is floating while you are lying on the ground, it(she?) does not do anything, so take the chance to land a hi counter strike.
Christie appears to guard, but she actually doesn't when you land a strike.
Like what Chapstick said, Rachel and Mai sidestep often, but additionally for Rachel, she seems to know when you are going to do a low strike almost all the time.
Honoka likes to abuse light ground 2K and you can't get up.
Kokoro and Sarah are complete bitches in terms of using strikes to crush yours.
As for Tina, the link Chapstick provided seem to be self-explanatory.
Raidou is a bit of Kokoro/Sarah and Tina combined.

 

[KasumiLover]

Naotora is a bitch too, she will successfully hold you half the time if you don't tech her up. Mai likes to hold frequently and side step and throw you of you idle for too long. Kasumi is a cunt, she blocks everything and likes to hold, tick throw and basically shut down everything. Nyo is a holding turtle up close, you're better of throwing that bitch since she'll block and then suddenly hold you, that annoying AI bitch...

 

[Brute]

bitch [...] cunt [...] bitch [...] bitch...

Edgy.

 

[TheDragonAwakens]

Naotora is a bitch too, she will successfully hold you half the time if you don't tech her up. Mai likes to hold frequently and side step and throw you of you idle for too long. Kasumi is a cunt, she blocks everything and likes to hold, tick throw and basically shut down everything. Nyo is a holding turtle up close, you're better of throwing that bitch since she'll block and then suddenly hold you, that annoying AI bitch...

I swear whenever Kasumi holds your strike, it's a high counter most of the time. Nyotengu is easy to deal with. Keep spacing and she will fly towards you, then land a powerful unsafe strike on her. I find Mai relatively easy to deal with actually.

EDIT: Eliot is fond of using 6P+K when you try to do a wake up kick and likes to use 66P46P to pressure you.

 

[KasumiLover]

Edgy.

I can't help it, I hate the AI. XD After I manage to beat them, I overkill those bitches!!! Once I had beat Nyo with Naotora with a slither of health...I spammed the FUCKING SHIT out of 2H+K, I was literally irritated! -_- Then when I beat Brad with Eliot, I spammed 8K over and over to give him a kick right in those nuts, I wiped that asshole on the concrete! XD

I swear whenever Kasumi holds your strike, it's a high counter most of the time. Nyotengu is easy to deal with. Keep spacing and she will fly towards you, then land a powerful unsafe strike on her. I find Mai relatively easy to deal with actually.

EDIT: Eliot is fond of using 6P+K when you try to do a wake up kick and likes to use 66P6P+K to pressure you.

Yeah when Nyo flies towards me, I just use 7K and the follow ups i want depending on situation with Kasumi and Phase and with Naotora I just start KKKKKKKK, do 236K~K, or I run and do running P+K. XD And yeah I hate that bitch Eliot when he spams 6P+K, I just low wake up for that, although I already get distracted fighting him, Kasumi, and Naotora. >.> Mai is easy but she's still a gnat imo, but it depends on who I use to deal with her. I think the main thing is that I just don't like seeing my character pool in their lose poses, there's something that breaks insides me when I see Kasumi, Nao, and Phase drop to the floor, Eliot I kinda cringe at but still feel bad. I get amusingly annoyed when I lose with Marie Rose, and Mai is just eh. XD

 

[TheDragonAwakens]

Yeah when Nyo flies towards me, I just use 7K and the follow ups i want depending on situation with Kasumi and Phase and with Naotora I just start KKKKKKKK, do 236K~K, or I run and do running P+K.

Keep using 236P and fully charged 4P+K with Hayate, Ein, or Hitomi.

 

[Chapstick]

When Alpha is floating while you are lying on the ground, it does not do anything, so take the chance to land a hi counter strike.

^This. Run up and use a refloating move to juggle her. Same thing when Nyo flies at you.

Honoka likes to abuse light ground 2K and you can't get up.

Back-teching makes it easy to deal with. I get a free low throw every time she knocks me down. Same with Kasumi who likes to go for 2P, 8P+K, or 2H+K when you're on the ground.

Kokoro and Sarah are complete bitches in terms of using strikes to crush yours.

These two piss me off because I really don't know how to deal with them besides getting lucky. They block absolutely everything. Kokoro likes to sidestep so mid tracking moves work okay vs her.

I'll add Hayabusa's AI loves to sidestep or crush. A tracking mid that can hit his wr 4K will shut him down easy except he'll probably start izuna holding it after a few times.

Hayate like to 1K and use his special sidestep so again, tracking mids work. Tracking mids that can't get crushed are the ideal moves to use vs the AI in general

 

[KasumiLover]

Kokoro is somewhat predictable, for me she likes to 66P, and then go for a 6PK, just read the flow and then either mid hold the first attack or the second one. For akira he's vulnerable to lows so you can get away with those with him, plus he's notorious for abusing mids. Momiji likes to hold mids often and she'll go for lows quite often if you let her so be wary. Ein likes lot low hold for some strange reasons and he's very likely to make a input read at round 1 fight

 

[Lulu]

I noticed Zack's AI will beat your Wake Up atleast once every round.

The Characters that are most likely to Cause Trouble in the Neutral game are the ones that Don't know their Maximum Damage Juggles:
All the VF Characters.
Kokoro
Tina
Kasumi

Also its weird when the AI gets you with a Force Tech Setup....