DOA5LR Is it me or is this game too random?

[FreeStepDutch]

I've trying to learn doa5lr since release and this game seems way too random for me. Basically, every time you're stunned, and that the basis of doa, you have a 5 way guess (4 counters, stagger escape). That's just too many options to simply defend yourself.

The only way to improve your odds is too learn every single string of every character. That's thousands of strings, and asking that to someone learning the game is ridiculous.

At the beginning this game is great because newbies throw lots of stuff randomly and that gives you a better chance of countering, but at higher level the mixups are really complex and I feel like a broken toy, trying to stagger scape to no use, or trying my luck at the counter lottery that most of the time I lose, and it's incredibly frustrating.

On the other hand doa5 version of ultra doesn't help much either,since you have to charge them it doesn't have much use as a comeback tool since you can see it from a mile away, but mostly as a way for high level players to toy with you until you are in deep stun and then bam.

Lately I'm playing with the idea of learning tekken and leaving doa5, since t7 seems on the right way with rage arts being faster, so they should be more useful as a comeback tool, but mostly with power crushers, that let you counter strings without having to learn every goddamn string for every character, except for low moves, so ironically tekken seems on its way to be more accessible than doa.

As it is I'm not sure if I will be playing this game anymore, I really love it but I'm not in the mood of learning every character move so that I have a better chance at countering, besides I use core fighters, so I simply cannot train to counter strings with lots of the characters.

So am I missing something here, because I'm tired of failing at simply defending in this game.

 

[Argentus]

Stop looking at it like a math formula, and start watching what your opponent does more. Its never "random". Stop guessing and start reading, to put it simply.

As for power blows, don't just do them out of nowhere. You can either use a guaranteed setup, or easily land them by crushing an opponents attack. Gotta get used to mind games and learn how to bait, not just memorize setups.

 

[ninemil]

As @Argentus says, it's never random. Concentrate on your opponent more, play as more characters until you've got a better feel for their move sets.

Don't expect to master twenty years of a series in two months.

 

[TOMA SAN]

nothing is random in doa5lr
i dont know what is your main character but if you know him frame, max damage combo, wall combo, stage possibility, all stuff !!
you have more chance than if you dont know all that stuff !!

if you dont have a main character find him !! its the better way to progress. learn your max damage and when you launch your opponent do often the max damage you will see you win more often !!
this is the difference between pro and noobs knowledge and optimization so a pro do often max damage so he dont need to have lot of chance in 3 set up you can win !!

the other most important thing for me in doa its mind game just learn to memorize your opponent set up and automatism and use this to win...

 

[KasumiLover]

It's basically what @Argentus said. It's not really guessing, you just have to read your opponent's movements and behavior, and just shut it down. When fighting high level players, they're basically stopping and pausing and delaying combo strings to bait you to throw out a hold, and when you do, you're going to be in for a world of hurt. Sometimes in these situations, it's best just to let your character fall to the ground, so that you can avoid these set-ups and not risk too much damage.
As for Tekken, it plays differently, but is still complex just like DOA, and you still have to read your opponent and shut down their set ups. You should focus on DOA, because to me it's much easier and you can actually stop spammers with just a quick input, you just have to read their moves carefully.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

You have to read what your opponent is doing in any fighting game you play. The triangle system and hold system do not make DOA random. They are unique to the game, and the hold system allows you to stop any press for offense on read.

You will have guessing in certain situations in every game as well, especially on knock downs.

 

[synce]

Yeah welcome to DOA. But to avoid guessing games your best bet is to not get hit. Ever.

They really do need to make it so not everything stuns. I mean practically any tap gives the opponent a "combo" if they catch you back dashing.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Guessing games have nothing to do with it being DOA. You have guessing in every game lol.

 

[Ictinike]

If it was truly random, there would be no such thing as top level players who place high consistently. Merely luckiest players. Lol

Most people get upset that defense has too many options and chances to get out. Lol

It sounds difficult, but honestly, over time you'll slowly get used to each character and learn what to look out for with each character. For example, Rig is kick oriented. Akira is punch oriented. Obviously, I watered it down, but I hope you get the idea.

 

[FreeStepDutch]

Guessing games have nothing to do with it being DOA. You have guessing in every game lol.

Yeah but not 5 to 1 chance to get you out of stun, I don't think there are other fighters with that defense ratio, most 2d games you only have to guess high/low, and like synce says, almost everything stuns, so you're constantly playing the stun game in doa.

 

[Argentus]

Yeah but not 5 to 1 chance to get you out of stun, I don't think there are other fighters with that defense ratio, most 2d games you only have to guess high/low, and like synce says, almost everything stuns, so you're constantly playing the stun game in doa.

Its not just 5:1 though. Count in factors like habits, fight flow, character, play style, etc and it narrows down the options to around 2:1, and even then you can usually read it 1:1. You don't really have to "guess" at all.

 

[ninemil]

Yeah but not 5 to 1 chance to get you out of stun, I don't think there are other fighters with that defense ratio.

Kinda missed the point of everything the previous five replies said...

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yeah but not 5 to 1 chance to get you out of stun, I don't think there are other fighters with that defense ratio, most 2d games you only have to guess high/low, and like synce says, almost everything stuns, so you're constantly playing the stun game in doa.

You do not have a 5 to 1 chance to get of out stun, that is an absolute guess. You either hold what you know is coming on read, attempt to stagger escape to lessen the attacker's stronger offense attempt, or actually have to guess depending on the situation you're put into (which happens in any game). You have to block high/mid/low in 3D fighters (specifically when you're put into strings that have these options), this isn't a 2D game.

You're not constantly playing with critical stun threshold in DOA5. That is a pretty linear way of playing the game when you do that or look at it that way. You have plenty of different ways of mounting an offense.

And each stun in this game will not allow for the same kind of defense either.

Kinda missed the point of everything the previous five replies said...

Preeeeeeeeetty much this.

 

[Argentus]

You're not constantly playing with critical stun threshold in DOA5. That is a pretty linear way of playing the game when you do that or look at it that way. You have plenty of different ways of mounting an offense.

To be fair, that seems to a bad habit from coming in off other fighters, and its a bad habit a sizeable chunk of the DOA player base makes, even on this site.

But in fact, staying narrow minded like that is in fact a weakness that makes you predictable and easy to exploit, which is part of what we are saying. You need to be able to do more than execution, you need to be able to adapt and think on your toes, because DOA is a game (quite literally) about reversals and mind games, not just hard math.

 

[FreeStepDutch]

You do not have a 5 to 1 chance to get of out stun, that is an absolute guess. You either hold what you know is coming on read, attempt to stagger escape to lessen the attacker's stronger offense attempt, or actually have to guess depending on the situation you're put into (which happens in any game). You have to block high/mid/low in 3D fighters (specifically when you're put into strings that have these options), this isn't a 2D game.

Eaxctly my point when you say "on read". I already said that learning every move highly reduces those odds, but that means that defending in this game is in most cases just an act of pure memorizing over skill, which basically asks you to learn thousands of strings to be able to react on read, together with learning the best moves for every character so you have better odds of what to expect. That's somewhere I'm not sure I want to go, and like I said, I use core fighters, so I can't train many chars movesets to see their heights.

Yeah, most other 3d fighters have high/mid/low, but standing blocks highs and mids, so most of the time you're blocking either high or low either in 3d fighters.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Eaxctly my point when you say "on read". I already said that learning every move highly reduces those odds, but that means that defending in this game is in most cases just an act of pure memorizing over skill, which basically asks you to learn thousands of strings to be able to react on read, together with learning the best moves for every character so you have better odds of what to expect. That's somewhere I'm not sure I want to go, and like I said, I use core fighters, so I can't train many chars movesets to see their heights.

That's part of learning the game, which is why 3D fighters are actually harder to learn and play than a 2D fighter since there is more information to learn and remember.

Yeah, most other 3d fighters have high/mid/low, but standing blocks highs and mids, so most of the time you're blocking either high or low either in 3d fighters.

That is what I said, and I also said the difference is that you have to do defend three hit levels during strings. Be it on block or if you're defending in critical stun threshold.

None of this makes the game "random", and you just said so in the first statement in your quote in my post. What I'm really starting to see from you is that you feel the game is too difficult to play because you lack ability to adapt to the opponent character's options.

Which will come to you as you just play the game and learn to adapt to the opponent's habits. Training mode is always there to look at moves and strings you want to see. Full game or core fighters, you can do that.

 

[FreeStepDutch]

well I won't insist, I'm glad you people enjoy this system as it is, but for me I'm not liking it at all.

 

[ninemil]

well I won't insist, I'm glad you people enjoy this system as it is, but for me I'm not liking it at all.

Hate to say it, but there's a simple answer to that.

DoA has a high learning curve. Most people see the girls and the boobs, and expect an easy ride, and it's most definitely not an easy game to slip into and be effective at. If you're finding that too much, and don't have the patience to learn the game properly... well, there's nothing anyone here can say to help you. You'd be better off venting at the wall, since it can't give you an answer you're going to ignore anyway.

 

[TOMA SAN]

like hajin says you need to go in training to learn more information about your opponent skill.
i think yeah the stun game are very important but for me the win is 50% because you do the right deplacement, if you move to trap your opponent in a cirner or front of a wall its more easy to win. an other point very important the okizeme the possiblity are very important in this case and mind game do 50% of the work

 

[KasumiLover]

well I won't insist, I'm glad you people enjoy this system as it is, but for me I'm not liking it at all.

You shouldn't just give up either. Just practice! You can even go online and play in lobby matches against other new players. It's not an easy game, but all 3d games have gimmicks that make them not so easy to get into. you should be thankful DOA has an easy way to stop endless barrages of moves, you just have to put in the effort to make the right read.