DOA5U Just Curious
- Thread starter Hades
- Start date
She's easily viable, but she's also easily low tier now. Not because she's especially bad, but because hey, someone has to be low tier. And it isn't gonna be Gen Fu.
Relatively low throw damage. No real low/mid mixup game (outside of critical stun). Very limited tracking. Moves that deep stun are all slow or high.
Very good bound damage. 214P and 66P are strong tools. Her strings are highly delayable. Linear pressure is strong.
Very good bound damage. 214P and 66P are strong tools. Her strings are highly delayable. Linear pressure is strong.
Hades
Member
Tracking has always been an issue for Kokoro since this feature was released. So I can agree on that. But a lot of people forget about some very good tools with her, one that comes to mind is her 46P. I believe its 12-14 frames? Can launch on counter hit, interrupts well, can finish the string for a gap closer, and a couple of other things. I'm sure she has many other tools but that is what comes to mind with me at least. Also Kokoro has some annoying pressure strings with her In-String-Grabs(I believe the term is worded? Ex: P, 2K, T let me know if thats not the correct term) So I just don't see how Kokoro players can really complain a hell of a lot because she still has tools. Yes I agree some things they have done to her are kinda bullshit but she's not unplayable by any means.
No one said that she's unplayable. I said in second post that she's easily viable. I don't understand. Are you trying to start a fight or something?
EDIT: Also, it's 17f, not 12-14f. It is very useful, though. Good range, CH launches, and it leads to her only tracking strike that isn't high.
EDIT: Also, it's 17f, not 12-14f. It is very useful, though. Good range, CH launches, and it leads to her only tracking strike that isn't high.
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
And uh...unless you're an Eliot player please explain to me why you don't think he's viable in 5U? Or do you just read about what other people say about him?
But to answer your question yes Kokoro isn't as great as she once. She's decent but not A tier by any means.
Kokoro's throw damage isn't the problem at all. Her 214T is like one her best comeback tools because of how much damage it does on HCT. The thing about Kokoro is that she has been steadily getting nerfed through DOA5, and all of those nerfs are adding up here in DOA5U.
-Lack of tracking
-Buffing of sidestep
-Nerfing of her 1KK and PK strings
-Nerfed advantage on heichu throw
-Nerfed stun on Heichu P
-Her 3K4K has more recovery, which limits her options out of it on hit because everything other than P6P, and K can be slow escaped.
-Her 1T got nerfed(It's still pretty good though)
-Most of her sitdown stuns got hit
-Nerfing of overall ground game also hurts her
She is still an ALRIGHT character, but kind of inconsistent. I can make her work, but sometimes I struggle unnecessarily against players that weren't really a factor before. She works really well against certain players though, but she definitely needs some back up.
-Lack of tracking
-Buffing of sidestep
-Nerfing of her 1KK and PK strings
-Nerfed advantage on heichu throw
-Nerfed stun on Heichu P
-Her 3K4K has more recovery, which limits her options out of it on hit because everything other than P6P, and K can be slow escaped.
-Her 1T got nerfed(It's still pretty good though)
-Most of her sitdown stuns got hit
-Nerfing of overall ground game also hurts her
She is still an ALRIGHT character, but kind of inconsistent. I can make her work, but sometimes I struggle unnecessarily against players that weren't really a factor before. She works really well against certain players though, but she definitely needs some back up.
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It doesn't do bad damage, but when pretty much every other throw (and health) got buffed, it's a lot less threatening than before.
EDIT: Haha, I forgot Heichu P. Remember when that actually had a reason to be used? Those were the days.
EDIT: Haha, I forgot Heichu P. Remember when that actually had a reason to be used? Those were the days.
STBALLA1990
Member
Kokoro is still viable, it's just some of her most used tools got nerfed. I just started to play her in DOA5U so I didnt see what she was like in DOA5.
Thanapon Buamongkol
Member
My Kokoro is the 1st on PS3 leaderboard among Kokoro players. Don’t get me wrong, it doesn’t imply that I’m the best Kokoro player, it means I have more than enough experience playing her and here is my opinion about her after playing more than 7,000 online rank matches on both DOA5&DOA5U combined.
1. Most of you guy (with PSN ID) here in this forum are not recognized to me. I means, your PSN ID are not familiar to me on online solo rank match (only some but most not). When you guy talk about her good strike tools, sorry but I think she is too much heavily rely on Mid-Punch. And Mid-Punch is the easiest to be held when playing online rank.
So my first comment is most of her (seems to be) good strike is not effective beside counter strike.
Some may argue, believe what you believe.
To me, my fight get better since I stop using her mid punch. I only use her mid punch on counter strike and no more.
2. As some already suggested, her really strongest tools that make her unique among all characters is her built-in combo grab. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, come spar me PSN : etong23, we could share our knowledge.
3. There is just one thing I do agree with you guy, her linearity. This is really problem when fighting opponent who is sidestep lover. It certainly disrupt my rhythm, more or less.
In conclusion, I don’t think Kokoro is powerful characters. You need a lot of practice to make her good. I think I spent at least 600 hours with her just to discover I should stop using her mid-punch.
1. Most of you guy (with PSN ID) here in this forum are not recognized to me. I means, your PSN ID are not familiar to me on online solo rank match (only some but most not). When you guy talk about her good strike tools, sorry but I think she is too much heavily rely on Mid-Punch. And Mid-Punch is the easiest to be held when playing online rank.
So my first comment is most of her (seems to be) good strike is not effective beside counter strike.
Some may argue, believe what you believe.
To me, my fight get better since I stop using her mid punch. I only use her mid punch on counter strike and no more.
2. As some already suggested, her really strongest tools that make her unique among all characters is her built-in combo grab. If you don’t understand what I’m talking about, come spar me PSN : etong23, we could share our knowledge.
3. There is just one thing I do agree with you guy, her linearity. This is really problem when fighting opponent who is sidestep lover. It certainly disrupt my rhythm, more or less.
In conclusion, I don’t think Kokoro is powerful characters. You need a lot of practice to make her good. I think I spent at least 600 hours with her just to discover I should stop using her mid-punch.
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Y'all don't even know what "mid punch reliant" is until you learn Leon.
Also, I'd be catious using randoms in ranked as a method of judging a character's validity.
The same applies to basically every character save some braindead morons like Alpha.
Oh? You found a way to "stop using her mid-punch" after all? Well, let's rundown Ryu.
His fastest mid is a mid punch. All of his guard breaks and attacks that leave him at neutral or + frames on block are mid punches (save one obscure one). His only sit-down with 20+ is a mid punch. His best launcher is a mid punch. His Critical Burst is a mid punch. All of his good gap-closing moves are mid punches (save one/arguably two). His power blow is a mid punch. His power launcher is a mid punch. His two best kicks lead straight into a mid punch unless you want to be horrendously unsafe. And my God, don't even get me started on Leon.
Obviously he has other tools, but what my point is is that with Ryu, you simply can't have a playstyle that largely avoids mid punches unless your opponent is an idiot. You must play risky and use them, since you don't have low mix-ups that are +on NH or any FA attacks on guard that aren't mid punches (or throws/resets mid-string, etc.). There simply isn't another option. Many characters are like this, some definitely more so than others. Thus, being mid punch reliant is not a glaring weakness on Kokoro's front any more than it is for a ton of other characters as well.
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Thanapon Buamongkol
Member
According to my own experience, the strong Hayabusa player I fought are most likely Mid-Punch minimum. They are all excellent on wake up game, where highest possibility to hold their mid punch or eat throw. This is not random base, the U or S+ playing with me just like that. They prefer to use low stun as to open/counter or just to take advantage before their high/mid kick mixed-up. I think the reason they acting like that is just similar to what I said.
That's pretty much all true for Kokoro, though. Except for the launcher. Only thing is that Kokoro has to use a bunch of high punches too.
STBALLA1990
Member
yeah dont over use the mid-punches. I try not to use them at all in a fight if I can help it. Mix-up the high and low punches, and be sure to involve to grab chain in your arsenal.
Most likely minimum?
Oki is something that any character can be good or bad at depending on if they guess your WU approach correctly. Ryu's special WU capabilities are 6KP, ongyoin 8P, 7P6P+K and 7PP+K, all of which are mid punches. Unless you mean his special wake-up attack, which is also a mid punch. Not sure where you're going with the WU thing. Obviously any good player is typically going to excel at wake-up. There is a reason character who can control that well are typically considered high tier, like pre-patch Rachel and Helena. But this has nothing to do with Hayabusa-specific avoidance of mid punches.
Online ranks mean nothing to me.
They're opening you up with Hayabusa's lows? He has basically some of the shittiest low mix-ups in the game. I'm not getting what you're trying to convince me of.
And that affects my point in what way? If you found a way to almost entirely avoid mid punches and still be threatening on a high level of play with characters like Leon or Hayabusa, feel free to share. If not, my point stands. Some characters are reliant on certain hit levels. My point is that that doesn't necessarily mean they're a weak character.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
You can't use rank as a means to judge anything. Especially on the PS3 where alot of players are frankly weak and have no idea how the game is played. I see them striking at disadvantage, not punishing moves that are punishable, holding too much in stun or relying on crush launchers or crushes in general when they are at disadvantage. I don't care if its online. I force myself to play exactly as I would offline; I don't see why other people can't be honest players and do the same.
As for Kokoro she is weaker in this game and took unnecessary hits. But due to the triangle system of DOA she is very much viable since as Blackburry stated she is good against certain players and in DOA fighting the player is just as important if not more important that fighting the character IMO.
As for Kokoro she is weaker in this game and took unnecessary hits. But due to the triangle system of DOA she is very much viable since as Blackburry stated she is good against certain players and in DOA fighting the player is just as important if not more important that fighting the character IMO.
Did I really just read that Kokoro is too many mid punches? Allllllright.