DOA5U Kasumi's match video and critique thread

[J.D.E.]

I've played with a lot of people (e.g. RenderingStar, Panicitstylor and Tenryuga) who can also do these advanced combos online if the connection is decent (in my case it was always 1 bar to them). Sure, sometimes they drop them, but that happens to me even with easier juggles. Therefore, I wouldn't say it's not necessarily.



Of course, we are different in this point. I have no offline scene around, so I'm nearly always playing online and cannot say that I would play her "in a other way" then. I'm always playing her the same way, just trying to improve some things with time. In addition, I'm sure you are more anxious like me for optimizing your way of playing, since you are participating in tournaments for example. Please don't get me wrong, that's not meant offensive. I admire you guys for your anxiety, but I don't take it as seriously as you do. Therefore, no worries, I won't stress it.

No worries.

 

[Chapstick]

Also, not a lot of people know this, but Kasumi's 4K & 3PK has the exact same type of property as with wall hits (33P > 2p> Combo) 4K > 2P > Combo, 3PK > 2P > Combo both on the wall to add to her wall game.

I'm not really sure what this means. If I totally read this wrong and thought you meant 4K/3PK can replace 33P for extending wall juggles then my bad, but if that's what you did mean it doesn't work because 4K/3PK smacks them into the wall.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I'm not really sure what this means. If I totally read this wrong and thought you meant 4K/3PK can replace 33P for extending wall juggles then my bad, but if that's what you did mean it doesn't work because 4K/3PK smacks them into the wall.

Yeah, I also read it this way and noticed that yesterday.

 

[Tenryuga]

He's basically stating 4K and variants are a wallsplat for those that never used it before since he doesn't see a lot of players use it so he assumed it wasn't common knowledge for some.

 

[J.D.E.]

I'm not really sure what this means. If I totally read this wrong and thought you meant 4K/3PK can replace 33P for extending wall juggles then my bad, but if that's what you did mean it doesn't work because 4K/3PK smacks them into the wall.

Yeah what Tenryuga said. I'm saying that they work the same. No, it doesn't work with 33P. 3PK/4K works with 2P & you can do that same combos as a follow up

 

[tokiopewpew]

He's basically stating 4K and variants are a wallsplat for those that never used it before since he doesn't see a lot of players use it so he assumed it wasn't common knowledge for some.

I'm still not sure if I understand this 100% but I've tested a bit.

Following works for me near wall:

(1) opponent stunned >> >> opponent launched >> >> (e.g.)


(2) opponent stunned >> >> opponent smacked against wall >> >> opponent is raised a bit >> (e.g.)


(3) opponent stunned >> >> opponent smacked against wall >> >> opponent is raised a bit >> (e.g.)


So is that what you guys mean?

 

[J.D.E.]

I'm still not sure if I understand this 100% but I've tested a bit.

Following works for me near wall:

(1) opponent stunned >> >> opponent launched >> >> (e.g.)


(2) opponent stunned >> >> opponent smacked against wall >> >> opponent is raised a bit >> (e.g.)


(3) opponent stunned >> >> opponent smacked against wall >> >> opponent is raised a bit >> (e.g.)


So is that what you guys mean?

Yes. That's what we were talking about. It's just another option that makes her wall game even better.

 

[Nameless Sama]

I have already mastered the timing from her , , and .
So I have a question. So as you know is Kasumi my last and 2 main besides ryu so I appreciate for any help.
My Question is If is useful to use her 9PK of any of the 3 above moves ? I see a lot of people using it but other people say is very bad so I wanted to know why ?

 

[tokiopewpew]

Yes. That's what we were talking about. It's just another option that makes her wall game even better.

I see. Going to add this to her strategy page.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I have already mastered the timing from her , , and .
So I have a question. So as you know is Kasumi my last and 2 main besides ryu so I appreciate for any help.
My Question is If is useful to use her 9PK of any of the 3 above moves ? I see a lot of people using it but other people say is very bad so I wanted to know why ?

I would use it only as part of a combo, e.g.
Featherweight:
, , , , ,

because it is simply very unsafe if it misses. Some characters have moves that let them rush forward very fast (e.g. Kokoro or Akira). If you are going for 9PK while the are doing this or going for a low, you will miss them. In addition, you can be easily hit out of the air while executing it.

You could use it for punishing whiffed wake-up-kicks too but you should do this only if you are really sure that the opponent is doing one every time to get up, even if you are out of range.

*Edit*

You can do this combo for heavyweights for example:
, , , , , ,

 

[Nameless Sama]

:O Thank you very much Tokyo so I have thought the same.

 

[tokiopewpew]

:O Thank you very much Tokyo so I have thought the same.

I've edited my post with some further explanation.

 

[Chapstick]

Yeah what Tenryuga said. I'm saying that they work the same. No, it doesn't work with 33P. 3PK/4K works with 2P & you can do that same combos as a follow up

Yeah, I read it wrong before I see what you mean now. It seems less useful because it does less damage than wall splat 33P 2P combo. Like 8P (stun) 4K 2P PKK7K does 78 dmg while 8P (stun) 9K 33P 2P PKK7K does 84 dmg. 8P (stun) 3PK 2P PKK7K does 83 while 8P (stun) 6P6K 33P 2P PKK7K does 92.

Well I just tested it on Rachel and it works when stun wall hit 33P 2P doesn't. I guess the trade off is it works on all weights.

 

[Tenryuga]

Its also for mixup. 4K is her high wall splat, 9k is her mid kick and 66P is the best mid punch wall splat. Then again you could just use H+K at the wall instead of 4K since that probably leads to more damage. Either way they all of their uses and they are all options.

 

[UprisingJC]

I'm wondering about the massive usage of and the following in the middle of strings, when she gets back turned. At first, I though these were just input errors, but I checked the frame data and it looks like she's relatively save on block with this. However, I'm not sure if it is worth using it, because standing back turned can be very risky imo.

Any different opinions?

It's -5 on block. Currently it's no use at all because of its follow-up, 4KP being COMPLETELY USELESS.
Both 4KK and 4KP are SLOW(around 30 frames) and now only 4KK works well as you can do almost nothing after 4KP.

Last November I made an video addressing this issue and showed it to some Japanese players and TN, and it seems that TN's gonna deal with this in the upcoming 1.04 update.

After the patch it should be better, but still 4K is not that good when you're fighting against players who brainlessly abuse low holds like hell.

 

[Ael]

I picked up Kasumi on and off, mostly just mashing in the past, but for the past week, I've been in the lab with her, doing her combo challenge (yeah, I'm slow so I finally finished it after a week lol) and getting the timing for her basic combos down. Forming muscle memory, basically. Once I got some things down, I found out that she's really fun so I actually want to get better with her. Today was my first time playing her online in matches against others after deciding to pick her up and learn her basics. So, I just want critique on what to work on and what I should stop doing and what's consider "online tactic" with Kasumi--the whole nine yards. I have a clue what I did wrong but a second or third opinion would be lovely. Thanks in advance!

 

[Tenryuga]

I picked up Kasumi on and off, mostly just mashing in the past, but for the past week, I've been in the lab with her, doing her combo challenge (yeah, I'm slow so I finally finished it after a week lol) and getting the timing for her basic combos down. Forming muscle memory, basically. Once I got some things down, I found out that she's really fun so I actually want to get better with her. Today was my first time playing her online in matches against others after deciding to pick her up and learn her basics. So, I just want critique on what to work on and what I should stop doing and what's consider "online tactic" with Kasumi--the whole nine yards. I have a clue what I did wrong but a second or third opinion would be lovely. Thanks in advance!

Avoid using 4P in tick throw attempts. The majority of that string's mixup is dealt with by low guarding or crushing so by trying to grab after it just increases the risk of the grab attempt failing. Worst case scenario you get hi counterblown. Any of her other mid's are better for tick throws though you already know P > throw is the best way to setup a grab.

Also 66K is better as a whiff punisher since if you use it to come in you are left at -10 in their face. If you really have to use 66K to approach go with 66K~K which is safe on block. If you need a move to get in on somebody 66P would be better because it has a followup that forces the opponent to retaliate in a specific way (crushing) if they don't want to get counter blown. I don't know about others but I have never been counter blown by a crush attempt for doing 66PP and most crushes are negative on NH so Kasumi can start her offense after. Not as much to lose as using 66K IMO.

4P and 3K are good spacing tools for Kasumi when she is in her ideal range. Once you get your opponent to respect these tools you can start dashing in with her punch or mid punch strings. One thing you don't want to do too often as Kasumi is YOLO run in on somebody; that is foolish. Practice inching your way in on your opponent.

I think that's enough for now. You did well in that match so keep it up. If you haven't already you might want to check out the Kasumi video for beginners that Allan Paris made. There are great pointers in there for people who are just starting out with her.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Well, I'm no expert, but from my point of view I think Tenryuga is right with everything he said, especially with the usage of . Also, you might try to use her mid kick attacks and launcher more (e.g. or ), in the video you are relying a lot on high kick options (e.g. for turnaround). This is a habit I'm also suffering from, and you will notice that you can lose a lot of opportunities for landing a juggle if the opponent loves to do low holds on stun (not uncommon online). Sure, is a good tool because it's save on hold, but I'm just saying this because it's hard to get rid of bad habits later. Otherwise, it was pretty good, I like how you used her different throw options.

Btw, what's this at 0:58? Stagger-escape? I thought is guaranteed after landing a turnaround stun with .

 

[Chapstick]

Btw, what's this at 0:58? Stagger-escape? I thought is guaranteed after landing a turnaround stun with .

It looked like Ael did it a little too late that time.

 

[tokiopewpew]

It looked like Ael did it a little too late that time.

Hmm ... looks pretty normal timed for me, considering that it gives a huge frame advantage (+40 or so?)