Kotaku "Dead Or Alive Is More Than Breasts"

Godwin

Member
I don't see the point in thinking less of others. I think it's unfair and unrespectful.
So I don't see no reason a fighting game should be considered 'less' if it has fanservice.
Some people enjoy fanservice, some people enjoy the fight mechanics, it's all fine. Some people like both, also fine.
Some people seem to think women are less when they are halfnaked or sexy, but they aren't. Jesus for example made clear that prostitutes can be very good people and we should not stone them. People who make sexy art are also fine.
It is definitely a problem when there's a law that states all women have to be sexy, halfnaked or there's a law that states no woman can be sexy or show their ankle in public. But there's isn't. So let's all just enjoy the game, or if you don't, that fine too.
 

Argentus

Well-Known Member
Lol, people trying to say fan service doesn't matter.

It most certainly DOES when the game is promoted in such a way that most think DOA is nothing BUT fan service.

And it most certainly does when the fetish outfits are so awkwardly out of place when actually fighting that it kills the mood, too.


Anyways, I actually disagree with a lot of specific points in the article but I agree, overall shot itself in the foot and killed its own image with all the blatant fan service.

Nowadays all we can do is sigh and except that its damn near impossible for the game to get good publicity thanks to TN's marketing.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
Lol, people trying to say fan service doesn't matter.

It most certainly DOES when the game is promoted in such a way that most think DOA is nothing BUT fan service.

Here's the issue with that: The commercials are not 100% the issue as again, do I need to point out the SCV advertisements? Or the Hitman advertisements?
It's not just the advertisements that's the issue, it's how the games itself work. There is a reason why it's ONLY with Xtreme Beach Volleyball did people REALLY believe it was 100% fanservice and damaging to the series overall.

And it most certainly does when the fetish outfits are so awkwardly out of place when actually fighting that it kills the mood, too.
Not really...just don't choose or buy the costumes. It's the same with the DLC costume pieces for SC4 and 5. No real reason to complain when it's still a choice.


Anyways, I actually disagree with a lot of specific points in the article but I agree, overall shot itself in the foot and killed its own image with all the blatant fan service.

Nowadays all we can do is sigh and except that its damn near impossible for the game to get good publicity thanks to TN's marketing.
The marketing can change and there is plenty of people that is changing with each day. While it is a bad issue due to how it's marketed before, it's more or less just making certain to make it known that it is a fighter above all else. They can still do the XBV games and such, but it needs to be more low key.
 

David Gregg

Well-Known Member
This guy is a little hypocritical (and honestly reading a video game booklet at a diner is more embarrassing than all of his otaku sh*t he posted in the article?).

The real problem with Last Round is that it doesn't offer a whole lot of new content. They've really stretched out the advertisements for 2 new characters and 2 new stages. The only other thing they can show off is the DLC and soft engine. And with all of the money they're making off of the DLC why wouldn't they keep advertising it? It's unfortunate but like I said in the sexualization thread it's only going to continue so long as consumers keep buying it.
 

Wingman

Member
This year, I hope Team Ninja finds the balance between marketing a polished, competitive fighting game and selling the dlc costumes. I think the Battle Royal tournament is a great way to show the community that they care about tournaments and the overall gameplay in their product. I'm fine with being part of a community for a game known for it's sexuality, because that will always be a part of DOA, and I also enjoy that part of the game. It would just be nice for it to also be known as a great game with a passionate community who love the competitive aspect of Dead or Alive.
 

Malfury

Active Member
Kotaku is like the Onion for video games, lol. But I admit that I lost to this quote "It's like Team Ninja missed the sexy highway off-ramp, then said "fuck it" and pressed the accelerator to the floor."
:bradwong:
 

MeadowSpirit

Active Member
I find it astonishing that the DOA series takes so much more heat than the MK series. So let me get this straight: some people (i.e. complete idiots) can't take DOA seriously as a fighter because the game invites you to ogle the pretty girls, but the ultra-violent MK fan service in which you can KILL the other fighter after the match is somehow exempt from ridicule, featured at EVO, and supported by a large FGC community even though the series is (and always has been) buggy trash developed by a hack software company. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.

In summary, and putting aside the gameplay (where DOA completely destroys MK), two fighting games contain fan service: one in which you can watch Kasumi lounge on a beach in a bikini; the other in which you can shove the vanquished opponent's head into a table saw to die horribly. If you find ANYTHING cool or appealing about the latter form of fan service then I would suggest that you, and/or the culture you belong to, is seriously fucked up.
 

Force_of_Nature

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I find it astonishing that the DOA series takes so much more heat than the MK series. So let me get this straight: some people (i.e. complete idiots) can't take DOA seriously as a fighter because the game invites you to ogle the pretty girls, but the ultra-violent MK fan service in which you can KILL the other fighter after the match is somehow exempt from ridicule, featured at EVO, and supported by a large FGC community even though the series is (and always has been) buggy trash developed by a hack software company. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.

In summary, and putting aside the gameplay (where DOA completely destroys MK), two fighting games contain fan service: one in which you can watch Kasumi lounge on a beach in a bikini; the other in which you can shove the vanquished opponent's head into a table saw to die horribly. If you find ANYTHING cool or appealing about the latter form of fan service then I would suggest that you, and/or the culture you belong to, is seriously fucked up.
This is an unfortunate reflection of just how fucking backwards Western, and more specifically American society is with regards to the notions of sexuality and violence in the media.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
This guy is a little hypocritical (and honestly reading a video game booklet at a diner is more embarrassing than all of his otaku sh*t he posted in the article?).

The real problem with Last Round is that it doesn't offer a whole lot of new content. They've really stretched out the advertisements for 2 new characters and 2 new stages. The only other thing they can show off is the DLC and soft engine. And with all of the money they're making off of the DLC why wouldn't they keep advertising it? It's unfortunate but like I said in the sexualization thread it's only going to continue so long as consumers keep buying it.
I find it astonishing that the DOA series takes so much more heat than the MK series. So let me get this straight: some people (i.e. complete idiots) can't take DOA seriously as a fighter because the game invites you to ogle the pretty girls, but the ultra-violent MK fan service in which you can KILL the other fighter after the match is somehow exempt from ridicule, featured at EVO, and supported by a large FGC community even though the series is (and always has been) buggy trash developed by a hack software company. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.

In summary, and putting aside the gameplay (where DOA completely destroys MK), two fighting games contain fan service: one in which you can watch Kasumi lounge on a beach in a bikini; the other in which you can shove the vanquished opponent's head into a table saw to die horribly. If you find ANYTHING cool or appealing about the latter form of fan service then I would suggest that you, and/or the culture you belong to, is seriously fucked up.

These. Most of what he says COULD make sense...if the little things he added didn't literally break his spine trying to justify those compared to DOA's problems(i.e. The Agarest War Collection in which even the games' have ecchi content which easily surpasses DOA's and was the same advertising level, the freaking commercials, and how stripperific and ridiculous the other women are in other games).

It's just one huge mess of an article that still has plenty of issues on top of that which really kills his point.
 

Ritsuko

Member
lol @ everyone getting mad at kotaku even though everything the guy said is 100% true. DoA has very few good mechanics to sit on so most everyone just looks at the fanservice and shrugs doa off as a paper/rock/scissors game with very little strong tools to work with. Its hard to take a fighting game seriously when it doesn't even take itself seriously.

DoA5 started out good with listening to the competitive community and doing the we are fighters tag and it was actually getting good attention. Now? All you see is the ridiculous flood of DLC and fan service, and of course the game being simplified in 5U/LR. So many unnecessary nerfs....

This game will never be seen as anything other than a casual fighter with too much fan service until TN learns to step back and start taking itself seriously. Vanilla DoA5 had that shot, but its gone now.
 

Tenren

Well-Known Member
Should be "series" and "its bounce."

Seriously, proofread before posting stuff on the front page.
phhhsit lol i didnt post it to front page. Deaths thread was way better then mine. I even asked to have mine deleted after he made his. Just found the story and wanted to share it.

neways back on topic... lol
 
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Kasumi-Phase-X

Well-Known Member
Its fine and all if people got into DOA just for the gameplay not for the bouncing breast or revealing outfits, but part of what Mike said in his article makes Me want to question him or I think hes plain hypocrite.

For someone who has never let breast physics or says its his favorite fighting game, it makes him sounds like he is not that passionate enough to love games for what it is especially if you felt uncomfortable about your choices of fighting games during when DOA went Xbox Exclusive (while Itagaki was involved with the franchise) by letting terrible made commercial (these guys feel like their embarrassed by their moms or wives discovering their porn magazines got discovered) & let a waitress who gave you a thumbs up and say something right off that same commercial.
Not only you've started to feel uncomfortable with part of DOA's breast & revealing outfits, but you bought The Really Naughty Limited Edition of Record of Agarest War (which I own) which part of its art isn't any better compare to what DOA does (for the ones who somewhat has a problem with it) along with owning a Transformers figurine which it has a little girl bathing? (which the majority of people would want to question you) Is there something wrong with you or are you just not yourself along with not making up your mine on interest?

About the whole ray of hope for DOA fans tired of the series over-sexualized image, Mike knows very little about fans since every fan is very different and Mike is another example where fans are divided. It almost sounds like if you prefer if part of DOA's nature should be toned down completely. (Granted part of DOA's breast physics for DOAD & DOA5 not counting the options from DOA5+/DOA5U has improved from DOAX2/Paradise which is nice improvement) Everyone has very mixed opinions on what they prefer for DOA.

Seriously, part of DOA's realistic body illusion were shattered because of DLC and missed the sexy highway off-ramp? Dead or Alive was always like this from the beginning from the revealing outfits (especially unlockables, with few exceptions) & about bouncing breast features, besides part of the gameplay which is a fighter that I enjoy the most. He should've never played DOA if he can't get pass part of the breast physics along with Itagaki's choice when he was the leader of Team Ninja at the time. (there is at least options to choose from if he prefers natural movement, off, similar to previous DOA, or the hidden OMG) I'd like to know how many has he unlocked or even saw from DOA1? (not counting DOA2 Dreamcast or DOA3 Xbox, since they don't have many unlockables compare to DOA1 or DOA2U)

Not only people wouldn't take DOA serious because of revealing outfits & breast (which is now becoming not a valid complaint), but also when DOA1-DOAD used underage female characters which they would want to question developers or the country itself, even question Marie Rose & Honoka when it comes to age not accepting them as 18. (since Age of Consent is very different for each country) Which these people will likely beat the franchise to the ground with pointless comments, until DOA & part of fan service is wipe from existence and they will find something else to beat it to the ground. Part of your idea letting it age into the mature fighting game that you know feels nothing more than just pure naïve or delusional mind, doesn't understand more including part fan service what it was meant to be.

How is covering fighting games complicated when it comes to balance, timing, & competitive scene? Dead or Alive shouldn't be that easy especially since it is a fighting game, there are many stuff that involves balance, combos, timing inputs, & competitive scene DOA has. It does sound like you don't care that much about the FGC or part of the DOA community.

His ideal of changes, on the whole "Show, don't tell" isn't such a bad idea since we already have the options. "Take body physics to next level" body reacting to motions isn't such a bad idea either, but I think this could be too much to ask for due console limitation (avoiding slowdowns & hurting the games frame) or how much Koei is willing to give Team Ninja that much time. "Grow a pair" That would be something that every developer, however I would prefer if they put their focus on fans who have been with the franchise since Itagaki's position all the way to what DOA is of today (still accept DOA for what it is, such as Myself for example), which the fan service should remain. Telling the ones who want bigger breast to screw them (plus giving them a different game to get their fix) is insulting & what people like him should not handle the ones who prefer bigger breast (they are part what kept the franchise alive compare to ones that completely stopped at the Xbox era) which they can get over with changes (especially ones that originally had bigger breast).

Part of this article I would also won't take that much seriously, and I think he won't do DOA any justice besides cause problems or completely change DOA's creation to what it should be (even certain members involved with DLC has made bad decisions, which can easily improve). I think DOA can still be looked as a serious fighter, and still keep part of its fan service with the help of the most dedicated members and ones who support the franchise for what it is.
 

His Reverence

Papa Reverence, the Ayane Enthusiast.
Premium Donor
lol @ everyone getting mad at kotaku even though everything the guy said is 100% true. DoA has very few good mechanics to sit on so most everyone just looks at the fanservice and shrugs doa off as a paper/rock/scissors game with very little strong tools to work with. Its hard to take a fighting game seriously when it doesn't even take itself seriously.

DoA5 started out good with listening to the competitive community and doing the we are fighters tag and it was actually getting good attention. Now? All you see is the ridiculous flood of DLC and fan service, and of course the game being simplified in 5U/LR. So many unnecessary nerfs....

This game will never be seen as anything other than a casual fighter with too much fan service until TN learns to step back and start taking itself seriously. Vanilla DoA5 had that shot, but its gone now.

After a game is complete, artists aren't left with much in terms of work. That is where the plethora of cosmetic DLC comes in. They are given work, we buy their work and support them. There is nothing inherently wrong with lots of DLC. Yes, its sexualized but people (including me and many, many others on here) keep buying them, so they keep making them. Why should they stop?

In terms of DOA being taken seriously, IT NEVER HAS BEEN. That said, now, DOA is getting far more exposure than it ever has - with an ever-expanding fanbase of casual and high level players. If you want people to take DOA "seriously" then support your offline scene. There are fine folk constantly going to tournaments, exposing the game and working to meet the goal you seek. Me? I am casual. I don't care whether or not DOA is taken seriously. It is a video game, a hobby, that I adore and I am very pleased with its growth these past few years.

Your last paragraph is amusing. DOA is becoming SUCCESSFUL. THAT matters. Not casual vs core. Also, let's not assume that the term "casual" is negative. Without these casuals all around, you may not be playing DOA5LR, and probably not DOA5U either.
 
I find it astonishing that the DOA series takes so much more heat than the MK series. So let me get this straight: some people (i.e. complete idiots) can't take DOA seriously as a fighter because the game invites you to ogle the pretty girls, but the ultra-violent MK fan service in which you can KILL the other fighter after the match is somehow exempt from ridicule, featured at EVO, and supported by a large FGC community even though the series is (and always has been) buggy trash developed by a hack software company. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.

In summary, and putting aside the gameplay (where DOA completely destroys MK), two fighting games contain fan service: one in which you can watch Kasumi lounge on a beach in a bikini; the other in which you can shove the vanquished opponent's head into a table saw to die horribly. If you find ANYTHING cool or appealing about the latter form of fan service then I would suggest that you, and/or the culture you belong to, is seriously fucked up.

Hmmmm I think we share a brain, there is nothing else I can add to this I completely agree with every point you've brought up. I rented MK and was done with it in 8 hours I bought injustice ($40) and traded it in within 5 days I'll give them this, stories in those games are pretty cool, but gameplay.....yeah. I've enjoyed DOA from DOA 1-5 and all I need is the Xbox One fightstick to get situation to get fixed and I'll be good.
 

Macca Beam

Well-Known Member
I wish people would read his article, take it to heart and collectively stay the fuck away from this game so less essays are written every day on this braindead subject.

Publicity? Exposure? People who are turned off by the fanservice and people who are turned on by the fanservice have one thing in common: they are not here to play the blasted game. Did you see how that worked out for Tekken? It's filled with retards who argue all year long about whether or not fantasy martial arts are authentic and functional. In a fucking video game. I don't want to have these mongoloids playing the same game as me, thank you very much. Don't say that it helps the competitive scene. The competitive scene is helped by the enthusiasm of people who are already in it, not a bunch of literal whos who got suddenly interested because of the graphics. See the pattern here?

The real problem with Last Round is that it doesn't offer a whole lot of new content.
A large amount of people likely came up to them and said "make this game in ps4 graphics, i give u moni", that's why LR became a thing. Given that 5U and 5UAC never had any performance issues, the whole point behind current gen is the graphics.

DoA has very few good mechanics to sit on so most everyone just looks at the fanservice and shrugs doa off as a paper/rock/scissors game with very little strong tools to work with.
Did you get that Last Round update for DOA4 too? What an unbalanced mess right.
 

His Reverence

Papa Reverence, the Ayane Enthusiast.
Premium Donor
I wish people would read his article, take it to heart and collectively stay the fuck away from this game so less essays are written every day on this braindead subject.

Publicity? Exposure? People who are turned off by the fanservice and people who are turned on by the fanservice have one thing in common: they are not here to play the blasted game. Did you see how that worked out for Tekken? It's filled with retards who argue all year long about whether or not fantasy martial arts are authentic and functional. In a fucking video game. I don't want to have these mongoloids playing the same game as me, thank you very much. Don't say that it helps the competitive scene. The competitive scene is helped by the enthusiasm of people who are already in it, not a bunch of literal whos who got suddenly interested because of the graphics. See the pattern here?


A large amount of people likely came up to them and said "make this game in ps4 graphics, i give u moni", that's why LR became a thing. Given that 5U and 5UAC never had any performance issues, the whole point behind current gen is the graphics.


Did you get that Last Round update for DOA4 too? What an unbalanced mess right.

How about letting people enjoy the game however they want?

Also, why are graphical improvements bad? Keep in mind, DOA's transition to the current gen served the purpose of prolonging its lifespan - so it wouldn't drown in irrelevancy of the old consoles.
 

werewolfgold

Well-Known Member
Dayum. The Kotaku hatred is real. lol

Sexuality and gameplay do not interfere with one another in DOA. DOA does both flawlessly and there is NOTHING wrong with that.
Flawlessly? Surely you jest.

I find it astonishing that the DOA series takes so much more heat than the MK series. So let me get this straight: some people (i.e. complete idiots) can't take DOA seriously as a fighter because the game invites you to ogle the pretty girls, but the ultra-violent MK fan service in which you can KILL the other fighter after the match is somehow exempt from ridicule, featured at EVO, and supported by a large FGC community even though the series is (and always has been) buggy trash developed by a hack software company. There is something seriously wrong with this picture.
  1. One of those things is more in line with the concept of a versus battle game than the other.
  2. You'll find that a decent number of competitive MK players skip over fatalities anyway as they take up time and can get old after a few viewings. You could say there's kind of a parallel to how some competitive DOA players feel about fanservice.
  3. Given the current LR situation, you may not want to bring up bugs.
  4. This article also happened. http://kotaku.com/after-two-decades-ive-finally-outgrown-mortal-kombats-1684629637
In summary, and putting aside the gameplay (where DOA completely destroys MK), two fighting games contain fan service: one in which you can watch Kasumi lounge on a beach in a bikini; the other in which you can shove the vanquished opponent's head into a table saw to die horribly. If you find ANYTHING cool or appealing about the latter form of fan service then I would suggest that you, and/or the culture you belong to, is seriously fucked up.
You're just doing the same thing that others are doing. Glass house, stones, etc. This would basically be Jack Thompson vs. Anita Sarkeesian or something. It's all "fantasy", right? Unless you want people to accuse you of thinking of women as only sex props by being a DOA fan, I don't think you want to accuse MK fans of being deranged killers. lol

I will play and enjoy both series for various reasons. But, I am indeed a terrible, terrible individual.

Most of what he says COULD make sense...if the little things he added didn't literally break his spine trying to justify those compared to DOA's problems(i.e. The Agarest War Collection in which even the games' have ecchi content which easily surpasses DOA's and was the same advertising level, the freaking commercials, and how stripperific and ridiculous the other women are in other games).

It's just one huge mess of an article that still has plenty of issues on top of that which really kills his point.
This is pretty true. One would think that DOA would be right up his alley.
 
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JAG THE GEMINI

Active Member
Lol, people trying to say fan service doesn't matter.

It most certainly DOES when the game is promoted in such a way that most think DOA is nothing BUT fan service.

And it most certainly does when the fetish outfits are so awkwardly out of place when actually fighting that it kills the mood, too.


Anyways, I actually disagree with a lot of specific points in the article but I agree, overall shot itself in the foot and killed its own image with all the blatant fan service.

Nowadays all we can do is sigh and except that its damn near impossible for the game to get good publicity thanks to TN's marketing.

I can certainly agree with this. DOA had always this kind of "stigma" to it which did not make me feel embarassed but more than annoyed due to the focus on sexy poses/outfits dragging you away from what it is in it´s core... A FIGHTING GAME! Where is your damn promotion "I AM A FIGHTER" nowadays TN? It´s all about the fanservice.. Once again. :rolleyes:
 
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