DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion
- Thread starter iHajinShinobi
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, you can release P+K before P. I use a macro for P+K anyway.
Okay, so I've noticed that since this 1.07 patch, I cannot do K3 with 3 as the short for only one roll anymore. It has to be K6.
So if you're going to do any roll cancelling out of K or 3KK and want only a single roll, you'll have to do K64 and 3KK64. That's what I always do anyway, but just throwing that out there incase no one has noticed.
So if you're going to do any roll cancelling out of K or 3KK and want only a single roll, you'll have to do K64 and 3KK64. That's what I always do anyway, but just throwing that out there incase no one has noticed.
Something I didn't pay any attention to before. Last night I've realized 236K can counter hit in-string crouching lows. This will always do Close Hit damage, so you'll net 60 damage for hitting in-string croucing lows on reaction, or on read. Was testing this on Ayane's 3PK, Helena's 1PPK, 66PPK, 6K2K variants, and Kasumi's 6P2K variants. As well as Christie's, and Leifang's P2P2K and PKK2K.
Not wise against Kasumi's 6P2K variants, her hurtbox is weird with that so 236K will whiff everytime. 9K is better in that situation if you want to do that. 4P2K stuffs the 236K, whereas 6P2K and 3P2K do not touch Ayane at all, but Ayane's 236K whiffs on 6P2K and 3P2K. Same will happen with Kasumi's 2H+K.
Not wise against Kasumi's 6P2K variants, her hurtbox is weird with that so 236K will whiff everytime. 9K is better in that situation if you want to do that. 4P2K stuffs the 236K, whereas 6P2K and 3P2K do not touch Ayane at all, but Ayane's 236K whiffs on 6P2K and 3P2K. Same will happen with Kasumi's 2H+K.
while you do the roll you might just aswell combo into BT 66~H+K. less damage but hella easy and reliable
It's actually not reliable at all. BT6H+K from the roll after 3H+K only hits if 3H+K hits up close. It'll whiff otherwise.
3H+K > Free Cancel run in Drill kick will hit no matter how close or far the 3H+K hits.
Who is iHajon? lol 
I do find that BT 66H+K has the longest reach apart from, 3H+K~*turn around* Drill Kick, however, BT 66H+K doesn't really need to be hit confirmed, though it can still whiff if 3H+K is hit at tip range. 3H+K~66~BT 4P~K (or majority of the follow-ups like 3H+K~66H~66KK4~7K or 3H+K~66~BT 4K~7K) doesn't seem that reliable if hit around tip range too.
I do find utilizing follow-ups off of 3H+K tricky because I always aim to hit it at tip range since I use it as a keepout tool. If I use it at any range closer, I tend to get CH blown. I find the reward on 4K & 3PP better, though they're obviously not as safe and require you to essentially whiff punish or intercept something at a certain range.
LunaKage
Member
Spacing game is a bit tricky with Ayane, since it seems like the moves that net you the best reward also require you to be closer, and are also less safe to throw out.
I get quite a bit of success with 3H+K, but it's reward is very low, 3P I've had almost no success with, I find myself getting hit out of that more often than not. 4K is really good, but it requires you to be really close, and can be extra risky if you're attempting to whiff punish moves that have strings.
I get quite a bit of success with 3H+K, but it's reward is very low, 3P I've had almost no success with, I find myself getting hit out of that more often than not. 4K is really good, but it requires you to be really close, and can be extra risky if you're attempting to whiff punish moves that have strings.
3H+K > Free cancel run in Drill Kick will hit at every range 3H+K is hit confirmed. BT6H+K does not, and if this whiffs then you are being punished hard.
3H+K > Free Cancel run Drill Kick is what you SHOULD be using at tip range of 3H+K. Learn to utilize and make the best out of your strike range.
3H+K > 66 66KK4 BT7K will hit up close and mid range area. Again learn to utilize and make the best out of your strike range.
3H+K is 26 damage on neutral hit, it will beat out a lot of things at correct range with it already have so much length, and due to damage. Same to be said about Neutral K, which is 27 damage. Just like 4K, the 236K drill kick can be used the same way as whiff punishment and both are i16 frames. 236K has the benefit of pushing people closer to environmental hazards (walls, etc).
The reward for 3H+K is just fine, if it were anymore it'd be ridiculous.
We have a strike with a lot of range, a big hitbox that doesn't really extend her hurtbox much, that gives a bound stun WITHOUT threshold, and on all hit status. That's comboable for guaranteed damage AND even set ups for oki. All with reasonably solid damage all around. This move is too good, infact it's better than it was in Vanilla by a longshot.
This character has a lot of good tools and I feel like people are just limiting themselves to only a few. I'm exploring more and am learning to make use of just about everything this character has to offer.
Lol, I never said 3H+K was exactly bad or anything, I just prefer the reward off of 4K or 3PP if I whiff punish something. 3H+K still gets regular usage in my moveset. I've been trying to look at some applications for 236K since it low-crushes pretty instantly and has good hit priority. Seeing if it can serve as a bit of an "interceptor"-type move.
Ayane is a tricky character in general all-round. For her spacing, I'd try to play a bit of a footsie battle with most characters, especially if you have more range than their pokes. Ayane works best as a "bait-and-whiff punish" character by staying just outside an opponent's general attack range and attempting to capitalize on any poorly placed moves. You can try some stuff like P-cancels/mix-ups at range or seeing how an opponent reacts to a 3H+K~8P thrown out occasionally or usage of 1P+K spins/setups to try and bait a reaction (It's very difficult to explain how her spacing can be applied since there is a fair bit of flexibility in how you go about it).
3P is an amazing move with 2 follow-ups: 3PK & 3PP, with 3PP leading to a nice launch combo on CH. 3PP has incredible range (both hits can reach over 4 Metres in total combined) and is a decent option for CHing the opponent out of something at range. Though note that the 2nd hit can be held on reaction if the opponent expects the move. 4K actually has longer range than you think and is a great whiff punisher. It leads to 60+ dmg combos on NH unless the opponent can somehow SE it on Fastest. I generally use it as my go-to whiff punisher. If BT'ed you can whiff punish with BT 4P+KP or BT 4H+K for a gut stun or launch with BT 4K (though I've been using BT 6K over BT 4K in general more often).
LunaKage said:
Ayane is a tricky character in general all-round. For her spacing, I'd try to play a bit of a footsie battle with most characters, especially if you have more range than their pokes. Ayane works best as a "bait-and-whiff punish" character by staying just outside an opponent's general attack range and attempting to capitalize on any poorly placed moves. You can try some stuff like P-cancels/mix-ups at range or seeing how an opponent reacts to a 3H+K~8P thrown out occasionally or usage of 1P+K spins/setups to try and bait a reaction (It's very difficult to explain how her spacing can be applied since there is a fair bit of flexibility in how you go about it).
3P is an amazing move with 2 follow-ups: 3PK & 3PP, with 3PP leading to a nice launch combo on CH. 3PP has incredible range (both hits can reach over 4 Metres in total combined) and is a decent option for CHing the opponent out of something at range. Though note that the 2nd hit can be held on reaction if the opponent expects the move. 4K actually has longer range than you think and is a great whiff punisher. It leads to 60+ dmg combos on NH unless the opponent can somehow SE it on Fastest. I generally use it as my go-to whiff punisher. If BT'ed you can whiff punish with BT 4P+KP or BT 4H+K for a gut stun or launch with BT 4K (though I've been using BT 6K over BT 4K in general more often).
Got some new Ayane tricks up my sleeves. I may post my findings after some further testing.
Some things I've found and have been utilizing recently;
3H+K > Free cancel 66 3PK - 42 damage on Normal Hit, has a hard knockdown (techable). This is immediate access into the ground game and oki pressure. If players don't tech up after 3PK, you can do 2H+K for a hefty +18 force tech and maintain offensive pressure and momentum. If they tech up after 3PK, you're still at advantage regardless and can continue offensive pressure and momentum.
As a matter fact, you can do another 3H+K here to loop this, or go for more damage if you choose to. The 3H+K will counter hit any strike attempt from the defender. If it's blocked, then you can do the usual BT8P to back away anyway. So you're not at a loss here. Keep in mind that this can be used in Critical Stun Threshold as well to rack up some more damage higher than the original 42.
BT2P > 66KK4 - BT2P is +17 on counter hit and in threshold, and it is +11 at fastest stagger escape. BT2P followed by 66KK4 will reset the threshold to Critical Level 1 (this is fucking sexy). This is very good for several reasons because you already have a plethora of strikes to continue threshold mix up and throw mix ups after BT2P as it is;
- Neutral P, 6P, 6P3, 3K, 3P, Neutral K, 4P, 6K, and throws. Launchers work here as well, depending on how the defender decides on their response (holds).
All of these forces the defender to guess because even if they stagger escape to be at +11, Ayane is still at advantage and they they cannot press a button. If they do, any of those will counter hit them for free. And they get thrown if they block. Couple all of this with 66KK4, and you have yourself some very solid, and very scary pressure.
This means that 66KK4 will not be crouched on reaction often because it is not something the defender will be looking for. And hardly the only thing they have to worry about. This works the same way with 4K as well and will land that sitdown stun. Only downside is that 4K is unsafe on block. Also, not everyone will stagger escape, some (actually most) players will hold somewhere, or try to hold out of stun. This solves all three situations.
Do keep in mind that you can get this kind of mix up and pressure going as soon as you get Critical Stun Threshold or a counter hit.
P+K, BTP+K, BTPP4P - +14 on counter hit and in threshold, +9 at fastest stagger escape. Before I continue, I'd like to note that P+KP, BTP+KP, and BTPP4PP are all 2 in 1s (natural combos) on hit. While P+KPP, BTP+KPP and BTPP4PPP are +30 on hit. P+K, BTP+K and BTPP4P are also +0 on Normal Hit, and -4 on block (safe).
The P+K is very, VERY good in threshold. You can free cancel it on hit and jab or BT2P (goes into the pressure above) afterward to continue a threshold mix up. Or you can free cancel it and utilize the +14 as a frame trap. You can go into front turn stance and strike at +14, or remain in back turn stance and strike. 66KK4 is also possible to receive a +1 afterward, or the BT6K to be at +0 (that sitdown stun also says hello if you press buttons). You can use throws here as well, of course. You will be counter hit by highs if you use anything slower than i16 frames however, so 3H+K will not work with it.
I have other things, and will reveal at a later date. Refining things.
3H+K > Free cancel 66 3PK - 42 damage on Normal Hit, has a hard knockdown (techable). This is immediate access into the ground game and oki pressure. If players don't tech up after 3PK, you can do 2H+K for a hefty +18 force tech and maintain offensive pressure and momentum. If they tech up after 3PK, you're still at advantage regardless and can continue offensive pressure and momentum.
As a matter fact, you can do another 3H+K here to loop this, or go for more damage if you choose to. The 3H+K will counter hit any strike attempt from the defender. If it's blocked, then you can do the usual BT8P to back away anyway. So you're not at a loss here. Keep in mind that this can be used in Critical Stun Threshold as well to rack up some more damage higher than the original 42.
BT2P > 66KK4 - BT2P is +17 on counter hit and in threshold, and it is +11 at fastest stagger escape. BT2P followed by 66KK4 will reset the threshold to Critical Level 1 (this is fucking sexy). This is very good for several reasons because you already have a plethora of strikes to continue threshold mix up and throw mix ups after BT2P as it is;
- Neutral P, 6P, 6P3, 3K, 3P, Neutral K, 4P, 6K, and throws. Launchers work here as well, depending on how the defender decides on their response (holds).
All of these forces the defender to guess because even if they stagger escape to be at +11, Ayane is still at advantage and they they cannot press a button. If they do, any of those will counter hit them for free. And they get thrown if they block. Couple all of this with 66KK4, and you have yourself some very solid, and very scary pressure.
This means that 66KK4 will not be crouched on reaction often because it is not something the defender will be looking for. And hardly the only thing they have to worry about. This works the same way with 4K as well and will land that sitdown stun. Only downside is that 4K is unsafe on block. Also, not everyone will stagger escape, some (actually most) players will hold somewhere, or try to hold out of stun. This solves all three situations.
Do keep in mind that you can get this kind of mix up and pressure going as soon as you get Critical Stun Threshold or a counter hit.
P+K, BTP+K, BTPP4P - +14 on counter hit and in threshold, +9 at fastest stagger escape. Before I continue, I'd like to note that P+KP, BTP+KP, and BTPP4PP are all 2 in 1s (natural combos) on hit. While P+KPP, BTP+KPP and BTPP4PPP are +30 on hit. P+K, BTP+K and BTPP4P are also +0 on Normal Hit, and -4 on block (safe).
The P+K is very, VERY good in threshold. You can free cancel it on hit and jab or BT2P (goes into the pressure above) afterward to continue a threshold mix up. Or you can free cancel it and utilize the +14 as a frame trap. You can go into front turn stance and strike at +14, or remain in back turn stance and strike. 66KK4 is also possible to receive a +1 afterward, or the BT6K to be at +0 (that sitdown stun also says hello if you press buttons). You can use throws here as well, of course. You will be counter hit by highs if you use anything slower than i16 frames however, so 3H+K will not work with it.
I have other things, and will reveal at a later date. Refining things.
Last edited:
Took me a little while to mention this, incase no one else has noticed. But like previous titles, in DOA5U, Ayane's neutral PP is a natural combo on Normal Hit AND Counter Hit. Even on block, you cannot hold neutral PP, or crouch it, or side step it (it tracks anyway), or fuzzy guard it.
True block string. Same for BT PP
True block string. Same for BT PP
You can use it as a bit of a ranged poke because of the delay on BT 4P+KP, not to mention the great range on the string. It's also Ayane's only mid-hitting threshold extender from BT (aside from BT 6K which causes either a SDS or bound in threshold). The recovery on BT 4P+K kinda sucks, and it relies a lot on trying to nail people with the 2nd hit, though this BT'ed string can drive up the threshold very well. For example you can do SS~P4 then BT 4P+KP if you score a CH on SS~P4.
I use BT 4P+KP as an alternative to BT 4H+K as a mid-ranged BT attack at times due to BT 4P+K being i14 as opposed to BT 4H+K's i20 startup. BT 4P+KP also causes a nice wall splat combo opportunity. BT 4P+KP's existence is nice because BT 6P & BT 4P are pretty rough when blocked. BT 4P+KP is still technically unsafe at -8 however.
- Status