DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion

[Force_of_Nature]

Kokoro is much more deadly in close than she is at range where she's much more likely to use a Mid P against you (although she can poke with stuff such as 1P or 1K). I spam 2P against Kokoro because a lot of her moveset contains highs (which oddly look like they hit you in the boob). Her 6P is indeed i12, which I usually counteract by jabbing her or kicking her in the face with a KK.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Kokoro has a 2K low with a follow up and she has a few string highs as range tools. Not to mention her 236T is an option itself and has follow ups.

 

[LunaKage]

I wouldn't necessarily take 4K out of your arsenal (not implying you are), you have to be on point with that or you'll be too late (it gets blocked or whiffs).

Notes are good though, definitely start implementing that BT6K more, you'll love that tool once you're really comfortable using it.

Oh most certainly not, it's my favorite whiff punish tool since it gets me a guaranteed combo for decent damage, and I care about that a lot. I just use it way too much. Like I'll do 66KK4 > BT 8P > 4K, which is close enough to punish certain moves, but gets me killed or put into a bad situation in a lot of cases, so I just wanna cut down on using it, so I can put her other whiff punish tools to better use. Basically I'm doing what I did with 4P.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Some Kokoros use 6P+K on me too (The High-Low move). By and large I find Kokoro easier to deal with at range. Fuck her online though.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

P+K/BTP+K is powerful in threshold. +14 advantage by itself in threshold (as I stated once before), P+KP is a natural combo in threshold (2 in 1) as we already know. However, the +14 will let you mix up with BTP/BTPK/BTPP (and strings) in threshold. So you can legitimately mix up off of P+KP 2 in 1 or P+K in threshold.

Furthermore, 6P3 and P+KP3/BTP+KP3 offer the same mix ups in threshold, with 6P being a mid punch, and P+K being the high punch. Exact same mix ups at two different hit levels, this is amazing stuff. P+KP3 is a little stronger however, because it also has P+KP1 for mix up (and P+KP being a natural combo), when 6P does not.

In addition, P+KPP is +30 advantage in threshold (also wall slams but that's old news, at least I'd hope so lol), that's a natural combo into a high punch ender, and that's hardly ever going to be held (if at all) because of P+KP3 and P+KP1.

Little things, really. But little things I've taken note of, and add to my arsenal (and my mix ups and vortex).

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Ayane can get a +2 off her 66KK4 on block. I've found ways of making it consistent with some set ups and used it once in play earlier tonight. Will share later, still working on it for the roster, and other things.

#HajinmonRepresentativeformulatingscience

 

[iHajinShinobi]

BTK is an i20 frame high kick with a range of 1.92m and 30 damage. -13 on block, -12 at range. It cannot be thrown if blocked at range or tip range, so it is range safe. Adding this to my keep out tool arsenal.

Also, 1P+K P becomes safer if blocked at range, the non-chargeable version. -7 at range, -6 at tip range, allowing you to fuzzy guard the i7 throws from strikers on block.

 

[Solaris_Noid]

Hey all, pseudo-newbie here. I've been playing Ayane since the DoA2 demo back during the Dreamcast days and button mashed since I was seven at the time, but now that I've gotten better at fighting games I think I'll start learning how to play her seriously.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Hello, welcome to the FSD and the Ayane community, @Solaris_Noid. There is plenty of information here in the Ayane forums that you can review, Force of Nature and myself are also around often to help out and answer questions if need be too.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Has anyone thought about trying to utilize Ayane's side step, side step P or K, and side step P+K for mix up during threshold? Side step P+K leaves you at +5 advantage after a PP in threshold, so you can continue offensive pressure if you choose to. Plus, that's making BT6K an i10 strike lol.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Thinking about making a Q&A thread, so we can keep all general and basic questions about Ayane under one thread. And all general gameplay discussion here. To keep things from getting cluttered.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

So I don't know how many of you were watching Master's stream earlier tonight, but he went over unholdable situations that occur in the game after techable knockdowns. Since then, I've been labbing it out and have found some unholdable strikes after certain knockdowns.

A re-cap of what he spoke about;

This information applies to Hayabusa but the formula and the way of finding unholdable setups apply the same way for everyone else. (Remember this DOES NOT apply to roll back techrolls)

(In Dojo,Tatami)
Pick Hayabusa and go ahead and set the computer to tech roll and second action to hold. After doing that do the following set up and make sure to HOLD after the combo to see the hidden data and read the explanation below.

Normal hit Hayabusa QCF+Punch, then 8P,3PPP = +26 Frames on techroll and plus the cpu holding.

When you hold during an opponents recovery to find out the hidden frame data, You must take into consideration the initial frame of the hold. Normally the example above would have been -5 if the CPU did NOT hold which would mean you would only be +25 after doing the subtraction of your initial hold but, again, the game is also taking into account the initial frame of the hold. When both you and cpu hold then you cancel out the initial frame since both of you are doing the same move to find the same information and the game takes into account the CPU’s initial frame for the hold and yours. The end result is that the +26 is the correct amount of frame advantage.

Also +26 is the amount of frames your opponent cannot move. Theoretically speaking and assuming that your opponent decides to hold after the tech roll then the hold wouldn’t actually become active until the next following frame of you actually being able to move. +26 is your +advantage but the 27th frame means you can now move, block, attack or do something and the 28th frame would be the hold becoming active.

This theory make sense currently because the move that is currently unholdable is hayabusa's QCF+Punch after the techroll to the side, which according to the games Frame data is 25Frames but we all know it doesn't become active until the 27th frame.

I just showed you that you are allowed to move, block or do something on the 27th frame but the hold WILL NOT come out until the 28th frame. I know this to be true because if you set the CPU to attack instead of hold then the game will register the fact that he attacked on the 27th frame and will show a counter hit on the screen. This also applies to Sidestepping by the way.

The Sidestep doesn't become active until the 1st frame so if your opponent were to sidestep in this situation it would be considered NORMAL hit instead of counter hit because the set up didn't allow for the sidestep to have enough time to activate.

Apply this same formula from Hayabusa to your character and you will see that this applies to everyone in the cast and it will probably be the most consistent way to test unholdable set ups.

Hope this helps for those that didn't make it or didn't understand the stream last night. Post questions if you need help and feel free to share.

-MASTER

I've found some very solid stuff after messing around with this.

My findings for unholdable strikes after techable knockdowns so far:

CH 4P or Critical Level 2 threshold 4P launch > Free Cancel > PP6K2K

Leaves Ayane at +16, 66K (66KK4), 4K and H+K are all unholdable.

The above juggle for +16 can happen during a lot of moments universally as long as your juggles ends with a 6K2K. Same for a 3PK knockdown.

CH 4P or Critical Level 2 threshold 4P launch > BTPP6~K

Leaves Ayane at +14/+15, 6P and 6K are unholdable. 6P3 becomes a very solid mix up because of this. However, this situation will only likely happen when you knock your opponent near a wall (not on a wall, near one) or at an invisible wall, because you want to be next to them after they tech up. 8K is an i14 frame high kick (and high crush) so it works here too, although the timing is a bit iffy.

Thought I'd share a bit of what I've found with this so far, I've found more and am still digging. Will post more later.

This is good to know though, especially for players that like to be tech happy all to often (and mashy).

 

[Aerospark]

Has anyone thought about trying to utilize Ayane's side step, side step P or K, and side step P+K for mix up during threshold? Side step P+K leaves you at +5 advantage after a PP in threshold, so you can continue offensive pressure if you choose to. Plus, that's making BT6K an i10 strike lol.

Side step P4 & K is the only thing I can get out of her side step. I don't use it often since my side steps often get me fucked up.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yeah, side step P+K is the part of it I've taken some time to figure out for myself. It's not easy to utilize at first glance, takes some trial and error, it's proven useful for me so far.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Just an FYI, Ayane's 6K2K is actually a good string, it's just so abusive online due to crouching registering so late in latency. Also gets misused as an opening string too often (gets blown up offline that way easily), when that's not it's purpose.

Lately I've theory'd 6K2K as a pressure resort, and in recent sets, has proven to be so for me.

6K is +15 on neutral hit, 6K2K is +18 on neutral hit (used to be +23 and honestly I now understand why it was changed to +18). 6K itself opens doors to threshold for i10 to i13 strikes (this is how I've always utilized the 6K). 6K2K opens doors for i10 to i15 strikes. If you're to use to this as an opening, use it sparingly because it's not difficult at all to counter hit the delay into the low, and it is not difficult at all to block 6K2K straight up without delay.

If someone actually tries staggering out of 6K, the low hits them and puts them back into the situation for them staying on defense. If they low hold (or low hold out of stun) expecting the low, they get smacked by a mid or low thrown. This is how you correctly condition someone.

(The online tactic in this, and one that I really hate seeing, is that people try to condition you to block the low and low throw you for it because you have to guess and cannot just react on read since crouching takes longer to register. Offline, this will not happen, either you block it or retaliate at the delay/free cancel.)

6K > 6K is a knockdown, so that 6K can be a 6K2K for knockdown, giving you easy (and auto-pilot) access to the 66K (66KK4) unholdable on players who like to tech up.

6K and 6K2K for offensive pressure can keep opponents at a stand still because it trips them up (same for 3PK but is slower).

If someone staggers my 6K, I'm left at frame advantage regardless and can utilize strikes that are at i16 frames, or go BT for block pressure. I have other forms of utilizing 6K2K from certain juggles and other bits but that's my own thing since I'm switching up my repertoire anyway.

Just putting it out there that 6K2K is legimitely fine, just works best as pressure, not a go to opening string.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I just noticed something while beating on Nyotengu. The second hit of Ayane's 3PP stuns on NH for +30-ish (around the same as the NH stun on BT4P). I could've sworn this move was throw punishable on hit a couple patches ago. It was -3 on NH in the last patch. 3PP just seems to keep getting better and better especially with the existence of 3PK and delays for mix-up potential (although it always was kinda amazing anyway thanks to its incredible range and CH launch).

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Just tested it, yeah 3PP is putting NyoTengu in a critical stun on neutral hit for +31. It's a hurtbox issue on Nyo's behalf, doesn't work on the rest of the cast, unless they're crouching. 3PP will not stun if it's delayed, however (on NyoTengu).

 

[LunaKage]

Shoutouts to matchup specific silliness. I never fought any GOOD Nyotengus, but I fought one who was good enough to beat my Marie twice due to spacing shizzzz. My Ayane didn't have any troubles though. Hajin, who do you think wins the spacing war between Ayane and Nyotengu?

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Just tested it, yeah 3PP is putting NyoTengu in a critical stun on neutral hit for +31. It's a hurtbox issue on Nyo's behalf, doesn't work on the rest of the cast, unless they're crouching. 3PP will not stun if it's delayed, however (on NyoTengu).

Yeah, just checked this out and only NyoTengu from what I could see gets stunned. The first hit of 3PP puts the opponent in a crouching state (not just NyoTengu), so it's kinda odd that only NyoTengu gets stunned. She's not the largest or tallest character on the roster.

As for the spacing battle between Ayane & NyoTengu, NyoTengu has a larger effective attack range but her speed and movement is significantly slower than Ayane's. She also has numerous attacks with very strong knockback such as 7KP. So it seems like it'll be Ayane's speed & movement vs. NyoTengu's effective attack range and blast-back moves. I'm leaning a bit towards Ayane because of her quicker ranged pokes, because my god NyoTengu is slow lol. 3K is nice though!

 

[LunaKage]

Hmm... this may be a long shot but, do you think maybe Nyotengu just stands up from a crouching position slower than any other character? If that were true, could there be any other way to exploit this silliness?