"Promise me, you won't tell anyone" Honoka General Discussion

[Ritsuko]

agh I like Honoka but its such a pain in the ass to get all the moves stuck in your muscle memory. She just to fucking varied lol

Not really. She's a lot like Brad in terms of having a bloated move list, but not even half of them are really useful. Her neutral game is also pretty terrible since almost all of her stances require on hit to even work and the rest of her neutral attacks are kind of average at best so she's really at the mercy of a good defender. She's got a few advantages on block, but really only one is relatively useful. She's got some strong tools, but she's mostly pretty gimmicky.

 

[ThatOneAznJosh]

Here are some non stagger escapeable CB I Found/use
(dragon stance)
(Duck)

(miss 1 punch into BKO then forward dash) (Honoka Stance)
Normal Hit (BKO)(Honoka Stance) P
Normal Hit (BKO)
(Brad Stance)(Christie Roll)

And here are 2 non stagger escapeable just found (Tested on Christie)
(counter hit)(Dragon Stance) (dragon stance)(dragon stance) (same time)
Normal hit (BKO) ( Dragon stance) (same time)



Unholdables
Throw
Normal Hit (BKO(Brads Stance)
Full combo throw (Near Wall)

I strings I use mostly to stun
add once in a while for mix it up and if blocked GB +1,,,,, ( Useful frame manipulation move to get in more with)
I love her high crush options too
,
after brads stance 4k transition I mix up a lot off christies roll pp and sometimes i dont use pp for it at all and bait a grab.

 

[Tenryuga]

Nah Honoka is not gimmicky. The way TN designed the character is that you have tools you use in neutral, tools you use at the wall, tools you use in the stun game and tools you utilize at frame advantage. In neutral CQC your moves are:

P strings

6P strings

6K / 6K2K

2P

1P / 214P+K / 1K

6T

Her P is -2 on block and is 9i. Meaning we can counterpoke 12i mids with stuff like P > P. Her go to strings are safe/ semi safe against strikers and lose safety against grapplers: PP6P at -7 and PPP at -6 with PPPK giving +1 frame advantage AND a tracking mid. PP into ducking avoids highs. I would avoid PP2K. NH stun is ok but it forces her into BKO where her options are limited.

6P and 6K are your primary counterpokes. 6K will give you a jab or 6P followup on fastest. Like every other fast mid poke with followups on DOA characters the frames on block are shit so you have to mixup finishing your strings with simple poking. 6PP is -7, 6PK is unsafe. 6K is -7.

2P is 13i and neutral on hit. This means she can effectively frame trap people with 10i jabs and 12i mids or slower with proper conditioning. Same goes for 9i / 11i characters however this task is harder due to her 6P not trading with some of them.

1P and 214P+K imo are her best crush attacks. 1P is safe on hit and tracks. It also allows for good followups. 214P+K is an INSTANT HIGH CRUSH 3 IN 1 THAT IS +1 ON BLOCK and stuns on NH. From the +1 she loses to jabs and 11i mids. That's not a huge deal because an instant high crush that stuns on NH while granting very minor frame trap potential is ridiculous as is. 1K is just an alternate tracking low that you can force a knockdown with. I have yet to find a way to capitalize on 1KK as of this post. 1K is also the go to move for oki because it is a force tech on hit and has followups to keep her safe.

6T grants you frame advantage to lockdown the opponent with tracking moves, her guard breaks, and her superior pressure strings. These are what I use:

3PPP

P+K PP

4K

4P

H+K

4H+K

2K

3PPP because the string is safe at the end, contains a 3 in 1 and is loaded with delayable mids for CH fishing. P+K the first hit is a natural combo on NH and on CH / in stun, P+KP jails on block and P+K PP can be charged for +3. This also has delayable mids for CH fishing and is one of the best wall pressure strings. 4K is a great mid kick poke. great stun on CH, transitions into ducking regardless if on hit on block and is only -1. This means we are still 10/12/14. So we can make a read to counter poke someone or crush high retaliation with ducking attacks. 4P is typical tracking with delayable followups. H+K is the same and at -2 we can use jab to counterpoke 12i mids. 4H+K is here to call out crush attempts and it grants +2 on block. Reward is better when it hits the opponent into dangerzones. Otherwise I dont use it much. 2K tracks and leads into a stunning low on NH. From this range the unsafe 66P becomes -7, and we can poke with 4K and 8P which is -6 on block and gives us transition on hit.

This is CQC. As for her neutral in general it is not bad IMO. Her stances have nothing to do with neutral; They are stun game tools. In the neutral game you talk about the pokes for CQC and mid to long range combat. I just covered CQC. For mid to long range she has 236P, 8P, 4P+K, 6P+K, 66P+K, 66P , 46P (Which is NEUTRAL on BLOCK and + FRAMES AT MID TO LONG RANGE) for whiff punishment. 7K, 4K for keepout. 8P, 4K, 46P, and 3H+K, 66P (though inconsistent on semi-safety) for general mid range to close range poking. Running P is up to +4 frames on block at far range. Running K is -4 on block. Runing P+K is + frames at long range on block and safe at closer ranges.

Couple this repertoire of tools with her good freestep and walkspeed, her godlike korean backdash and her crouch dash that ducks highs like a champ. You have a character that in the neutral is solid at footsies with all around solid tools for approach, mid range poking, keepout and whiff punishment. That to me is not bad neutral. IMO bad neutral is Leon or Phase 4 who have an extremely limited set of tools they can use outside of specific scenarios.

Also I was able to logically explain sensible uses for her tools to you guys. Gimmicky characters don't have explanations for anything. It's stuff that doesn't make any sense and shouldn't work/be good yet does so. Brad Wong is a gimmick.

I would go into her wall game and stuff I think is best for the stun game but this post is way too long and it's late. I will do that some other time.

 

[ThatOneAznJosh]

I play weird so yeah lol

 

[ThatOneAznJosh]

But those strings are useful too I just forgot to put them tbh o.o lol 6T and 214P+K, 4H+K especially

 

[ThatOneAznJosh]

I guess Honoka is not the character for me.. Thanks Tenryuga :'(

 

[Tenryuga]

I guess Honoka is not the character for me.. Thanks Tenryuga :'(

Lol don't say this. Honoka is a versatile character that has tools for all kinds of players IMO (from my Day 2 impression). You just won't be stance transitioning on block with this character unless you like the ducking stance. I'm sure you can find tools and play in a way that suits you and do fine. I just wanted to address some stuff I disagreed with from a post someone made.

 

[BirdsTheRevenge]

Just wanted to say big thanks to ThatOneAznJosh and Tenrygua for sharing their day 2 Honoka knowledge. Really appreciated guys, just learning the character myself as well.

 

[Ritsuko]

Nah Honoka is not gimmicky. The way TN designed the character is that you have tools you use in neutral, tools you use at the wall, tools you use in the stun game and tools you utilize at frame advantage. In neutral CQC your moves are:

P strings

6P strings

6K / 6K2K

2P

1P / 214P+K / 1K

6T

Her P is -2 on block and is 9i. Meaning we can counterpoke 12i mids with stuff like P > P. Her go to strings are safe/ semi safe against strikers and lose safety against grapplers: PP6P at -7 and PPP at -6 with PPPK giving +1 frame advantage AND a tracking mid. PP into ducking avoids highs. I would avoid PP2K. NH stun is ok but it forces her into BKO where her options are limited.

6P and 6K are your primary counterpokes. 6K will give you a jab or 6P followup on fastest. Like every other fast mid poke with followups on DOA characters the frames on block are shit so you have to mixup finishing your strings with simple poking. 6PP is -7, 6PK is unsafe. 6K is -7.

2P is 13i and neutral on hit. This means she can effectively frame trap people with 10i jabs and 12i mids or slower with proper conditioning. Same goes for 9i / 11i characters however this task is harder due to her 6P not trading with some of them.

1P and 214P+K imo are her best crush attacks. 1P is safe on hit and tracks. It also allows for good followups. 214P+K is an INSTANT HIGH CRUSH 3 IN 1 THAT IS +1 ON BLOCK and stuns on NH. From the +1 she loses to jabs and 11i mids. That's not a huge deal because an instant high crush that stuns on NH while granting very minor frame trap potential is ridiculous as is. 1K is just an alternate tracking low that you can force a knockdown with. I have yet to find a way to capitalize on 1KK as of this post. 1K is also the go to move for oki because it is a force tech on hit and has followups to keep her safe.

6T grants you frame advantage to lockdown the opponent with tracking moves, her guard breaks, and her superior pressure strings. These are what I use:

3PPP

P+K PP

4K

4P

H+K

4H+K

2K

3PPP because string is safe at the end, contains a 3 in 1 and is loaded with delayable mids for CH fishing. P+K the first hit is a natural combo on NH and on CH / in stun, P+KP jails on block and P+K PP can be charged for +3. This also has delayable mids for CH fishing and is one of the best wall pressure strings. 4K is a great mid kick poke. great stun on CH, transitions into ducking regardless if on hit on block and is only -1. This means we are still 10/12/14. So we can make a read to counter poke someone or crush high retaliation with ducking attacks. 4P is typical tracking with delayable followups. H+K is the same and at -2 we can use jab to counterpoke 12i mids. 4H+K is here to call out crush attempts and it grants +2 on block. Reward is better when it hits the opponent into dangerzones. Otherwise I dont use it much. 2K tracks and leads into a stunning low on NH. From this range the unsafe 66P becomes -7, and we can poke with 4K and 8P which is -6 on block and gives us transition on hit.

This is CQC. As for her neutral in general it is not bad IMO. Her stances have nothing to do with neutral; They are stun game tools. In the neutral game you talk about the pokes for CQC and mid to long range combat. I just covered CQC. For mid to long range she has 236P, 8P, 4P+K, 6P+K, 66P+K, 66P , 46P (Which is NEUTRAL on BLOCK and + FRAMES AT MID TO LONG RANGE) for whiff punishment. 7K, 4K for keepout. 8P, 4K, 46P, and 3H+K, 66P (though inconsistent on semi-safety) for general mid range to close range poking. Running P is up to +4 frames on block at far range. Running K is -4 on block. Runing P+K is + frames at long range on block and safe at closer ranges.

Couple this repertoire of tools with her good freestep and walkspeed, her godlike korean backdash and her crouch dash that ducks highs like a champ. You have a character that in the neutral is solid at footsies with all around solid tools for approach, mid range poking, keepout and whiff punishment. That to me is not bad neutral. IMO bad neutral is Leon or Phase 4 who have an extremely limited set of tools they can use outside of specific scenarios.

Also I was able to logically explain sensible uses for her tools to you guys. Gimmicky characters don't have explanations for anything. It's stuff that doesn't make any sense and shouldn't work/be good yet does so. Brad Wong is a gimmick.

I would go into her wall game and stuff I think is best for the stun game but this post is way too long and it's late. I will do that some other time.

What you just explained is called gimmicky. She has nothing solid and lots of random variables just like Brad Wong. Though sadly I guess in DoA that is considered a good thing.

 

[TakedaZX]

What you just explained is called gimmicky. She has nothing solid and lots of random variables just like Brad Wong. Though sadly I guess in DoA that is considered a good thing.

Your definition of gimmicky is obviously skewed. Tenryuga just gave you multiple explanations on how the tools are good an able to be utilized. Big examples being her jab 6p and 2p among all the others. There's nothing tricky about it. They are what they are and everything works reasonably.

Going further, her stun launch damage is far above average. Assuming were using a 25 damage stun, she gets 84 easy off of mid kicks and 85 if you do the JF. High kicks are at 81 and mid punches are at a low of 73. She still has Bending P though which actually offers a free launcher or chained SD stun if you want to try for higher damage. It requires a micro dash to follow up the 2nd SD stun. Regardless both are safe on block and overall she still gets damage.

Oh but my bad, you can't just throw out 66p+K on guard and get frame advantage from the follow ups. Yea I guess she is bad and gimmicky.

 

[synce]

"Honoka has nothing solid" Kappa

I can guarantee you there will be lots of Honokas at LR majors. She probably won't replace Christie, Helena, or Ayane for top 3 but she has the right tools for pretty much any situation. Good mixups, good stuns, good damage, good speed, good throws, there's really no weakness. An all around fun character. And the best part is they'll probably buff her in 1.02 because that's how TN rolls

 

[Tenryuga]

"Honoka has nothing solid" Kappa

I can guarantee you there will be lots of Honokas at LR majors. She probably won't replace Christie, Helena, or Ayane for top 3 but she has the right tools for pretty much any situation. Good mixups, good stuns, good damage, good speed, good throws, there's really no weakness. An all around fun character. And the best part is they'll probably buff her in 1.02 because that's how TN rolls

I agree though I would say her lack of NH stunning lows outside of 2KK and running H+K and the poor ranges on her jab and 6P are some inconveniences. They make it so that even if something would be perfect to use those two to followup on the opponent is juuuuust out of range. This also happens off certain pokes in the stun game as well.

 

[Fiend Busa]

I agree though I would say her lack of NH stunning lows outside of 2KK and running H+K and the poor ranges on her jab and 6P are some inconveniences. They make it so that even if something would be perfect to use those two to followup on the opponent is juuuuust out of range. This also happens off certain pokes in the stun game as well.

" They make it so that even if something would be perfect to use those two to followup on the opponent is juuuuust out of range. This also happens off certain pokes in the stun game as well."

I don't know how many times that has happened to me, such troll lol

 

[synce]

I agree though I would say her lack of NH stunning lows outside of 2KK and running H+K and the poor ranges on her jab and 6P are some inconveniences. They make it so that even if something would be perfect to use those two to followup on the opponent is juuuuust out of range. This also happens off certain pokes in the stun game as well.

Initially I also thought her range was weak on some moves, but you adjust to it after a couple days. About the lows, well I guess it depends on the type of player if it's a big issue or not. Typically I don't do a lot of ankle tapping, and with Honoka it's not really necessary when her whiff punishment is just so good

Seriously mang holy shit she is good. I might even there's a few broken moves. If TN is using telemetry on this game they may be nerfed when they see how often I do certain things lol My highest win streak so far was 19, which is a record for me when it comes to new characters

 

[BirdsTheRevenge]

Seriously mang holy shit she is good. I might even there's a few broken moves. If TN is using telemetry on this game they may be nerfed when they see how often I do certain things lol My highest win streak so far was 19, which is a record for me when it comes to new characters

Care to share any more about what you've been abusing? I am struggling with her. I rely a lot on 214P+K

 

[TakedaZX]

I agree though I would say her lack of NH stunning lows outside of 2KK and running H+K and the poor ranges on her jab and 6P are some inconveniences. They make it so that even if something would be perfect to use those two to followup on the opponent is juuuuust out of range. This also happens off certain pokes in the stun game as well.

Yea range seems to be a large issue with a lot of the things that she has available but I'd definitely hope that in 1.02 Leifangs 6pkp makes it to her movelist with a range increase on 6pk as well so that she can utilize that as a ground spike ender.

But yea I mean it's not like she's struggling from what I see. Just sometimes things are left to be wanted.

 

[Koyomi Araragi]

I've been doing pretty decent with her, once I actually stun with her I'm set, except I'm having an extremely difficult time doing that. She has crazy good crushes like 214P+K and 1P. As for her PP strings, it feels like everryythinggg crushes them at the start of a match. So I find myself starting up with 6P and 6K a lot. But every time I start up with 6P and it ends up being on NH and I'm left at -8 I get hit right after thinking it'll be a CH. I should just guard. it seems she has really good pressure on guarding opponents. I don't think I've seen anyone bring up the usefulness of 8H+K yet. it gives a +3 advantage on block, I like to cancel something like P+K or 3PP into it or just use it after 4K. I do a lot better vs blocking opponents because I take advantage of her various guard breaks, but people who try counter hitting after every little thing.. not so much..

Oh and I haven't seen anyone bring up her 9P strings of Brad's. It's too slow and lacks the range to just throw out there but I find it good after her 8H+K as it becomes 12 frames because of that +3 or after the bear hug because, for her neutral game, she lacks strings longer than two hits but there's a lot of mixup options in her 9P strings so in my opinion I find it useful

 

[TakedaZX]

I think you should probably throw some more 3ppp into your game as well as P+KPP since you feel she doesn't have many strings longer than 3 hits. They're also good for CH baiting and one can end in frame advantage and the other in safety.

6K2K should be your harassment option and she can actually follow up off of the 6KK option. That makes her a little bit more deadly than Zack with it in her hands.

Like Tenryuga said though, she's at a deficit on lows that stun on NH. 6K2K does but on CH it knocks down and unlike Zack she doesn't get a semi guaranteed forced tech off of it... Maybe 3h+k but that's most likely not safe if they tech up. That's what made the1kp2kkk2k tech up so dominant. If you hit confirmed the first hit then if it Whiffed you could switch up to the 6p or 6k mixups.

That's my take right now.

 

[Tenryuga]

I don't think I've seen anyone bring up the usefulness of 8H+K yet. I like to cancel something like P+K or 3PP into it or just use it after 4K. I do a lot better vs blocking opponents because I take advantage of her various guard breaks, but people who try counter hitting after every little thing.. not so much..

The reason you have this problem is because of what I bolded and underlined. You're at -6 and -12 on block then deciding to put out a 21f move which comes out at 27 frames and 33 frames after you free cancel into it after P+K and 3PP respectively. This is extremely slow and easy to interrupt. When pressuring on block you want to make use of her jab which is 9 frames and only -2 on block. Cancel that into more jabs or her 6P, 6K or 2P. 1P for the crush + tracking as well as throws. You also want to make use of PPP and PP6P. Use occasional delays of 6PP, 6KK / 6K2K and the 6P in PP6P. Her pokes are fast and recover quickly so you can apply good pressure that way.

8H+K is good to use when someone is blocking in neutral but here is the question I have for you. If you thought they were just going to sit there on standing block why not use 6T which is going to track, deal damage and give you more frame advantage? IMO 8H+K is best used as part of her wall game. Here 8H+K will splat if it makes contact and if it is blocked she is at + frames allowing her to continue her wall offense.

I also think 9P is a great string to use when she has advantage. 9PP is a natural combo on counter hit that does 40 damage and 9PPPP is safe. Also if only the second P of 9PP connects on CH then 9PPP will be a natural combo. For those reasons IMO this string is god mode for setting up tick throws especially since it contains multiple natural combos and a low that grants frame advantage into a free opener if they do not hold.

 

[TakedaZX]

Tenryuga the Ambassador for Honoka maybe?