Nobus3r1
Member
I would be looking for a guarenteed stomp. That said I think that this thread and the anti-Rachel strategies thread can be safely closed now in favor of a 'General discussion' topic as those topics no longer seem relevant.
Rachel nerfs
- Thread starter vINv
- Start date
vINv
Active Member
your arguement is becoming baseless omegan rachel is not low risk when 75% of her strings can b ssd and her vortex aint guranteed i dont understand the whine just tech and w8 and running moves (coughs) spacing tools have purpose if applied at the the right time rachel suffers from T rex syndrome just like gen fu least gen has good frames and a solid pressure game rachels pressure is all gimmics she sux bottom c tier at best only thing is ppl need to lab get some exp before rantung this nonsense
Drake Aldan
Well-Known Member
I don't think this exists.
Launch too low, and back tech is available (now worse). Launch too high, and FT doesn't activate. It was always that way, but moreso now.
Someone else can look for reviving it, but I think it's gone for good. Sure, you can put yourself at -2 or -3 with some setups, but like... why?
Mhm... Standard AT 
is -1 against super light and : was +1... but 45 Dmg off a 12F throw is not what you want. Well you still get some advantage vs Alpha xD
CH seems to be guaranteed against super light, but still has the issue that the last kick wont hit, if they tried to tech. So looking for guaranteed stomps is worthless either.
So the one thing that really required a fix is still there -___-
is -1 against super light and : was +1... but 45 Dmg off a 12F throw is not what you want. Well you still get some advantage vs Alpha xDCH
seems to be guaranteed against super light, but still has the issue that the last kick wont hit, if they tried to tech. So looking for guaranteed stomps is worthless either. So the one thing that really required a fix is still there -___-
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
It's just so funny to me now... I came to this community to get away from the idiotic crybabies who refuse to adapt on Tekken, but it turns out to be just a little bit worse on DOA. It has come to the point where high level players (Black Mamba) feel that the community is taking a nose-dive into an almost MK/Injustice type atmosphere where all you have to do to deal with a matchup is bitch and complain until it gets nerfed. I was playing with the "Broken, OP Rachel" yesterday and by playing with my friends Blaze and vINv we all just laughed at how bad all of Rachel's matchups are... now the struggle is more real than before... Rachel players now have to fight wakeup kicks like everyone else, that is, unless you never knock the opponent down. Then you nerf her only frame advantage move and nerfed her best tracking tool, her combo damage still pales in comparison to ALL of the other grapplers, and then there's her shit tracking that took some of the nerf stick ('cause it's like she murdered SS before right?)
Congratulations DOA Community, you've proven Black Mamba right, you guys just cry and don't practice; you expect wins to come to you by just pushing buttons with no common sense being used at all... I'm going to still be practicing hard with Rachel, 'cause that's what people with common sense do, THEY ADAPT. At least on Tekken, people just play like assholes against characters they don't like. (They don't throw 4-5 threads out to bitch about a shitty character..)
So yeah... I guess I'll go start a "Nerf Leon" or "Nerf Alpha" thread, get me some tissues, and whine my ass off until they get nerfed... any takers?
I apologize in advance, for when I do re-learn Rachel, but I feel like Mila players did last year... when everyone bitched about the tackle being annoying (we all know how that ended... if you need a tip, the crybabies got her nerfed too)
Congratulations DOA Community, you've proven Black Mamba right, you guys just cry and don't practice; you expect wins to come to you by just pushing buttons with no common sense being used at all... I'm going to still be practicing hard with Rachel, 'cause that's what people with common sense do, THEY ADAPT. At least on Tekken, people just play like assholes against characters they don't like. (They don't throw 4-5 threads out to bitch about a shitty character..)
So yeah... I guess I'll go start a "Nerf Leon" or "Nerf Alpha" thread, get me some tissues, and whine my ass off until they get nerfed... any takers?
I apologize in advance, for when I do re-learn Rachel, but I feel like Mila players did last year... when everyone bitched about the tackle being annoying (we all know how that ended... if you need a tip, the crybabies got her nerfed too)
Nobus3r1
Member
Amen. The worse part is just how apparent it is that TN was listening to the crybabies. Nerfing stomp into a non-factor is one thing but then you have 1PP and 214P going from -12 on block to -15 on block. Nevermind that the former string might be one of the easiest moves in the game to hold. Oh, wait I'm sorry that would require researching Rachel, recognizing the animation for 1P, realizing that she only has one followup to 1P and that said followup is an easily held mid. I imagine the following conversation:
Whiny online warriors (WOW): I keep getting hit by this two hit string that launches me and this other uppercut looking move that also launches me.
TN: Sounds like you're talking about 1PP and 214P which are both -12 on block and easily holdable.
WOW: But I keep getting hit by them.
TN: Hmmm....well don't worry that you're apparently a ten thumbed retard I guess I'll take care of this for you by making these moves full combo punishable by everyone even if you're not trying.
WOW: *is now ignoring TN because he's too busy drinking paint*
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
Well, in a most technical sense, -12i is currently launch combo punishable (due to how fast the average launch grab is... that is unless you're Rachel, with her now nerfed launch grab...) so 1PP and 214P were always launch punishable if you knew what you were doing frame-wise. You can still get the stomp, but like I implied before, we're going to have to know that people are going to be on the ground when you stomp them, 'cause if they back roll you're launch punishable -19i and worse and then you have to start dealing with offense again (we still have to remember Rachel sucks ass on defense so...)
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
We can't really be mad that Rachel got nerfed; we all knew it would happen eventually, and despite the fact that we've all told people how to beat her (and also don't struggle against Rachels ourselves) they still felt that Rachel was OP, and the thread stayed up since WEEK 1 (even though they shut off the Tier List Discussion thread from week 4...)
Why not nerf the character that everyone hates? (because they can't mash buttons on her) #DOA_is_4ButtonMashers
Why not nerf the character that everyone hates? (because they can't mash buttons on her) #DOA_is_4ButtonMashers
RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
I know you're not serious, but on the chance that you are, stay away from Gen Fu. Let's have at least one decent character in this game.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
Yeah I'm definitely joking, those are some really hard matchups for Rachel, but I've practiced enough against them tat I can handle the matchups pretty well...
Raze
Member
They did this to Mila in 5, they couldn't crouch block a tackle so she had to be nerfed. We all got a good laugh at it on the VF forums, I dropped the game because of it. Sucks they nerfed Rachel, but not surprised at all. All they needed to do was tone down the +frames on the stomp and remove plus frames from a whiffed stomp and make it negative. Whiffed attacks shouldn't be positive period. Nerfing her 66K is retarded as I got evaded all day when trying to use that predictable move. Then again I play my VF friends mostly in Ultimate and they evade and fuzzy etc.
Hopefully they don't go overboard with nerfs and buffs in this game like they did with 5.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
too late, they unnecessarily nerfed Momiji too ('cause she was OP right?) but those nerfs weren't really that bad....
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
they reduced her frame advantage by like, a lot... and some of her moves are more unsafe
alpha was also nerfed too, some of them were needed (7K is punishable) and some of them weren't (her frame advantage highs, like 9KP and similar strings were taken away)
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
they aren't absurd nerfs (like Rachel) just look at the DoA5U1.03 patch comments on the home page
Nobus3r1
Member
What they did to Mila in vanilla was the systematic destruction of the character. I'm laughing at the people in the patch comments who are dismissing this comparison because they don't know what they're talking about (I also don't want to talk to them). Not only where her various tackles nerfed but so was pretty much every viable normal she had. And we're not talking nerfs like the move is slightly worse we're talking nerfs like now there's no point in using move X. In that sense Rachel got off slightly easier in that she simply had her one dominant tool removed and was otherwise left more or less alone (that said, you can see my comments above on the other changes to get my feelings on the retards that TN is listening to). However...Rachel is a far more linear character than Mila (somehow) so overall this may end up hurting her more. With the Mila changes you ended up with a shittier version of the same character in that the strategy was the same it was just harder to implement. Here the strategy has more or less gone out the window and it isn't clear yet if there's anything else viable to fall back on.
I'm probably going to end up giving the game one more patch or two more months whichever comes first before making a decision on whether or not to continue playing this (my money is on another patch). As I joked on Twitter Netherelm Studios thinks that this patch was premature and reactionary. I would further add that it would also be fair at this point for the MK/Injustice community to call this community whiny and toxic.
Actually looking at the comments there it very much makes me question how much I actually want to support this game and this community when you have people actively championing the idea that the game should have fewer viable characters.
Itz King Beebop
Active Member
Surprisingly they gave Leon a buff... why give him a buff? Was he not scary enough already? It's not even the fact that it wasn't a game-changing buff, but the principle of nerfing low-tier Rachel to death, and buffing Leon... WTF TN... I can't really blame the company, they're trying to look out for the larger groups of players (more preferably the ones with complaints)