Straighten this little boy out.

[Tones]

Eliot's a pretty good guy. I like it when he wears his old man Chinese outfit around and uses his evasiveness with his move-set to win.

Eliot is a young boy who excels in his long distance games. He has good whiff punishers in his 6p+k, 66p(pp..etc/6p) 9k, 66p+k,2k+f which lead to stun game and or knocking back.

Eliot is know for his pretty boy good looks and his high attacks interrupts. He has medium length blond hair with 9p, 8p, k+f, 7p, 6p for interrupts.

Eliot likes to be under Chinese men. Pushing and pressing opponents against the wall is also another thing he likes and excels at doing.

Eliot always gets picked on by girls. He tries to be modest but that is always caught out.

I just outlined the basis of my Eliot, to clear and sum things up further... He excels the most when he has the opponent against the wall with good pressure on the advantage for huge damage potential. His whiff punishering plays out in almost the same manner (massive damage potential, good pressure) and evasiveness plays out exactly the same. Close up he relies heavily on high attacks and mid punches, the only thing he has to mix that up is his reset and launching throws and his mid kick launcher.

The area I need to develop more is his close up game. Mid and long distance he's simple enough to use but against anyone close up who has at least 1 good crush he's sort of screwed.

What do you all think?

 

[kazenouta]

I think that i totally understand what your saying Xd Eliot is a really good char but he need more then one improvement. He is my main and now, after a bunch of training and a lot of battle i use him pretty well. I play againts every character and i can say that as you said he have problem againts char that have good crush. Other problem is his mix up too limited. A lot of his move to start a air combo like 236 t or 8k or 8p can be stopped by a simple guard down or a guard. He doesn't have a good sit down and only a few, and not so helpfull garanted hit. Even his air kick can be guarded and he is not so fast as char. The only way to use him is play a lot of mind game and practice your reflexes to punish that annoying guard down or guard. Team ninja have to do something to improve him l. For example give him some good move where is on his back cause he have only a few and they are not helpfull. For example aftet p46p you need time to do the kick for air combo and so the opponent can hold or guard it easily. He's not a bad char but he have more problem than pther to fix. I intend to take him as a main also in ultimate. He is so cute i love him. He's shy with woman but talk big when he win. He's movement and outfits are incredible. My hope for the future is a good improvement of this beautiful character

 

[Tones]

Good point with the fuzzy guarding.

I'm trying to find out more about Eliot and to that a lot of what you said is irrelevant.

Do you have any "mind game tools" or being general. If you were being general then why even mention it. It's like saying, work on your basics... spacing/whiff punishing/whatever to improve your character knowledge.

I'm not complaining about him, I'm not looking for what in my opinion needs changing. What credits me or you to say what changes he needs. Let's ask for a 2 frame mid attack that launches on normal hit and is frame advantage on block.

 

[kazenouta]

Yeah i understand your point but its a matter of fact thay when you have only a few tools you need to do more mind game. I'm not compaing about him i totally love this char. As you said againts a char with good break he has problem. The things i said about his attacks i think are important. About the mind set its not a physical tool but i think about it as a personal tool. Yeah i can't explain what mind game i do.it's a thing you develop with experience and yeah it's a obvious thing that mind tool is important. Yeah maybe i was general when i said about mind game, other too need that but he needs more then other cause he has a lot of weak point sadly. You said you want now more about him and i talk about him i think. You said a lot of info are useless. Which of them. He doesn't have a high kick as jann neithet a good sit down. However youwrote. What you think ? And i answer with my opinion.i'm trying to be helpful cause i love eliot and i'm happy when people want to use him. So maybe i didn't fully undersyand what ypi want to know about him but i'm positive that if i understand i can help.

 

[Tones]

I love your input but it's hard to break down without spacing/paragraphing. So you're agreeing with what I said?

Say you're playing chess. You opponent is 2 moves away from 2-3 different ways for a check. If they check you you are forced to move your king for the first time meaning you cannot castle. He's also 1-2 moves away from threatening your queen. You're thinking defensively

Next move he decides to move a bishop in a way that threatens your knight but at the same time opens up his defense, encouraging you to play offensively. This forces you to do just that, changing the direction of the game.

That's mind games.

In DOA say you're up close in with at a neutral position (not advantage to either player). You pp46p, he guards. He tries to jab but you've followed that up with a 7p. That small intersection is part of a mind game, but you can also draw that intersection into another intersection depending on what reward you're looking for. so you've 7p and it's hit on counter, you side step, then again you side step but have done his side step punch. while you're side stepping you've opened yourself up which encourages them to play offensively, but you've already set up a high percentage counter.

Assume playing a character is like a set of chess pieces. You cannot play to you fullest potential without knowing how each piece moves... but that's only the first step, the next is how each piece should generally be used. The next step is how each pieces interact. etc etc. Some people don't even know what castling is.

I've got some idea about Eliot's pieces, and how they generally interact but I'm missing a lot on how each piece should generally be used. Specifically here I'm questioning all I know about Eliot but with a focus on his close up game.

With Lisa and Brad I have a really good understanding close in. Lisa's strengths are crushes, frame advantage, throws and strings. Brad strengths are crushes, hard stuns game and moves that push them back into mid/long range. All characters have fuzzy guard, interrupts, crushes

If you can share some mind game tools we can then break that down and see why it works, then find other ways to implement that.

Moving back to the pp46p 7p situation with Eliot. All the opponent has to do with high crush, or mid parry/counter to eliminate 90% of your options. All you have to beat that is guard, side step or throw. Thing is, you're now on the defense with each of those options (throw is 50% chance of hitting or you getting hit and now in stun). That said, I see maybe pushing them back into a mid range with 2p or 2k+h is a good options.

 

[kazenouta]

Ok i understand now. I hope to answer well this time. I often use eliot on close up position 'cause he can be really aggressive and he's mix up can confuse the opponent. For example a lot try to block 3k witj a lowguard but that kick is mid. I usually start the close up with 7p or side step punch if i am on a defense position and with 66p or sidestep p when i attack. Sometimes is usefull to start with the first part of his 10hit combo but after 3 or for move cancel it. Someone saif that this move are useless but if you use only a few time the opponent can be take by surprise. as i said eliot can be really aggressove so close up is not a bad idea but to do that you have to cancel a lot and mix. The guard is a big problem with him 'cause his stun attack don't give him so much advantage neither his sit down. To do a good close up i use to mix things like. I start with 7p on countet then i use 3kp 2k sadly 8k after that is not a guaranted hit. I use his 236 throw as a pressinh weapon. A lot of people that want to guard 8k can be pinished with that throw. And if they guard down they can be punished with a low throw. Use often tool as 66p, 66pk, sidestep p, or 3kp take the enemy on guard and give you the chance to start a close up. Put the opponnent on a mid range only when you are on a diffic position. The one you describe can be one of that. Thats not mean to destroy the close up game but to take a little break. I can uderstand the situation you describe. Fang often put eliot on that position for example and she is a quick char too
In that case yeah you have to switch on mid range or you can try your luck with236 throw or kh but usually is better to switch. Eliot can do close up but it' s hard to him to start a close up in that situation especially with fast char or char that have good parry. So it's better to take distance on those situation. My way to close up eliot is use a lot of cancel starting with move like 66p 3kp 7p or other. I usually use as soon as i can 236 t to get the enemy scared of it. I block mu combo and use it or finish my combo and start a air combo. I let the opponent know that i can do various things and put him on a situation of stress.If he doesn't choose well he can be hit. Using 3k and cancrl the punch or 1kp and cancel the last punch are all usefull tool. Another one is 4k (2p). 4k is pretty quick usually. Continue with 2p it's good when 4k hit. Trying a sit down for a burst can be helpfull but the burst is not garanted as for jann lee. However aftet a sit down you can use 236 throw or 8k for example. Close up with eliot is a good weapon especially on the angle. He can press really well there. The guard down to evade combo or throw can be a pain but also a weapon. Ok i said a lot . Hope this can help you

 

[Tones]

You do bring good points up. Establish you cancel strings early on then work around it, when they clue on, by finishing strings.

Work 66p close up. On hit work the stun game. on block throw otherwise continue string. 7p to interrupt. Sidestep P to interrupt. You like to use 3kp when they are stunned. 3k is fast enough as a mid to use.

Throw to catch them the slow escape or not from a stun. Something I do a lot.

I agree with you with his p+kpp+k string. It is useful to do, but you can only use it maybe once or twice in a round every 3 games you play. Less is more sort of thing.

 

[Tones]

@DontForkWitMe

I'm interested in your theory behind playing Eliot.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

@DontForkWitMe

I'm interested in your theory behind playing Eliot.

If you insist. Eliot for all intents and purposes is heavily guess based and has no viable guaranteed setups whatsoever his entire playstyle revolves around guessing, hold baiting, string delaying, and getting maximum juggle damage off his instant 3p refloats.

With these shortcomings to go along with his high damage output from juggles along with his best launcher being a 12 frame throw I play him as a pseudo grappler type character. in 5 Eliot struggles to open defending opponents up with his strikes, his long strings mean squat on defensive opponents who can stand and block everyone of his punch strings without a single worry to being open up by any low mixups since they all leave him at negative anyway on normal hit while doing shit for damage. Thus I rely on his super launcher throw as a means to open up these defensive opponents.

his juggle damage output is the one thing he shines at especially when utiliziing his instant 3p refloat which is key to his damage and wall carrying ability. his full combo damage off of high counter super launcher rivals that of true grapplers most damaging throws and once opponents realize that they will do everything in their power to prevent getting hit by it which results in them low holding to avoid the throw which in turn opens up his mix up options.

Another key tool in his arsenal are his parries, while not offering anything guaranteed other than non-stunning strikes, they do stop and aggressive opponent in his tracks and resets the situation where the opponent has to guess what Eliot will do afterwards. Now the go-to post parry follow up many eliots including my self rely on is his 9KK launcher. Many people don't know that the second K is holdable but it requires the opponent to commit to the hold and buffer it during recovery animation of the parry stun as it can't be held on reaction. This gives the Eliot player more mixup opportunities such ass... 9k into 12 frame hi-counter throw, 3kp sds into mixups or any other mixups Eliot desires

This is the gist of my playstyle and there are more smaller things i could add but i don't really have to time or desire to go completely in depth with it especially since 5U will be out in a less than 2 days rendering most of this moot anyway

 

[Tones]

You got any video of your Eliot?

 

[DontForkWitMe]

only have this one match uploaded before i sold the game

 

[Tones]

I agree with what you do close up like that. That's actually how I try to work it but I've had a lot of trouble dealing with people crushing and mid parrying. How would you react when your opponent does that to you?

 

[peachyO]

QUESTION: why is eliot seen as absolute bottom tier? i have very little experience with him, but i'm playing around with him, and he seems pretty good. he has a 9f punch, parries, a launching throw, decent damage, long combos for free-cancelling opportunities, some gen fu-like moves, and good speed. what am i missing here?

 

[David Gregg]

QUESTION: why is eliot seen as absolute bottom tier? i have very little experience with him, but i'm playing around with him, and he seems pretty good. he has a 9f punch, parries, a launching throw, decent damage, long combos for free-cancelling opportunities, some gen fu-like moves, and good speed. what am i missing here?

Well let's start with some of your examples, 9f punch has been nerfed in 5U it no longer stuns nor does it give any advantage at all. That was one tool that helped him out in 5. His parries have been weakened (like the other characters) and he still doesn't get any guarantees from them. Also he may have speed but he's not the fastest by any means and is incredibly linear. Long combos are good yes but it's a constant guessing game now compared to 5 where he had very nice guaranteed combos such as H+K,6P+K,6H+K,3P,3PPP46P.

This is why the community in general sees him as low tier in 5U (although buffs/new strategies are being figured out now which is great). But I personally agree with you and don't see him as bottom tier at all. Someone who knows how to use him will do just fine in a fight. He has some good and some bad matchups like every other character.

 

[Tones]

his 9 frame punch now puts the opponent in distance to which Eliot excels. I'd rather that then the opponent low counter and recover before you do.

 

[David Gregg]

his 9 frame punch now puts the opponent in distance to which Eliot excels. I'd rather that then the opponent low counter and recover before you do.

Meh...I feel like he was in a much better position when they were in a stun. And if they kept trying to low hold all you'd need to do was throw them. It may push them back now but all it does is reset.

 

[Tones]

You're disregarding how important keeping the opponent the space that you want him is.