Throwing an opponent that is in critical stun

[Shinigamimatt]

Be

From a general FG perspective, it's more than just that. "Yomi" is know to do X-move at a certain time because you've read that your opponent will do Y-move.

Believe me, I wasn't trying to downplay it. I was just being lazy and mentioned only 1 situation.

I don't know the japanese term, but there's other things too. Like forcing the opponent to do what you want.

For example. If I keep throwing low kicks and punches with my kasumi, I'm forcing the opponent to hold or guard low so that I can grab for damage. And that can be applied to anything in DOA. Effectiveness obviously varies, though.

 

[Allan Paris]

That is called yomi when you do that. A low end game of yomi but, yomi nonetheless.

 

[Shinigamimatt]

Ah alright. Thought they were separate.

It's actually a real thing. In shaolin kung fu they call it heart-mind boxing.

 

[Matt Ponton]

You *hope* the person holds or guard lows. They could be waiting for that low throw you're eager to throw out, then bam HCB.

 

[DrDogg]

If the jab recovers before the step finishes... how are you able to crush or throw it?

I would use a crush instead of stepping.

But does it really matter? Isn't "yomi" (aka, the art of reading your opponent) an important part of any fighting game?

"Yomi" is important, but not mandatory. I can also use "yomi" while still keeping myself 100% safe, or only allowing minimal punishment. Once again, DOA forces you to use "yomi" and you are rarely safe while doing so.

 

[Shinigamimatt]

You *hope* the person holds or guard lows. They could be waiting for that low throw you're eager to throw out, then bam HCB.

Very true. It's pretty much unsafe on anyone that even knows the game even a little.

Won't lie though, I have won matches with just that on some scrubs who thought they were the best.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I would use a crush instead of stepping.

And such a mind game doesn't occur in any other fighting game? ever?

Because remember, you're playing the role of the string delaying attacker who's move I've just guarded. If you're saying you have cancelled that string to get into a sidestep or initiate a separate move that is a high crushing attack, you are at the mercy of the recovery frames and disadvantage of the guarded attack. In which case a jab can still be done by me after guarding the attack due to thoughts of you delaying the string. If you opt to cancel the string, then my jab recovers - if it misses you for some other reason - before your high crush or step have reached their hit frames, and if you did in fact delay the string, the delay would allow my jab to counter-hit you. It could stop your momentum, depending on the string you are using the delay on and how long you are thinking to delay it.

Based on my testing in the alpha demo, a string could be as high as 20 frames delayable, then it has to apply the i13-20 for the followup string with that. This is all considering that you've recognized that there is a delay at all, and as such a i9-13 jab could in fact beat out a string that was further delayed.

 

[DrDogg]

And such a mind game doesn't occur in any other fighting game? ever?

Because remember, you're playing the role of the string delaying attacker who's move I've just guarded. If you're saying you have cancelled that string to get into a sidestep or initiate a separate move that is a high crushing attack, you are at the mercy of the recovery frames and disadvantage of the guarded attack. In which case a jab can still be done by me after guarding the attack due to thoughts of you delaying the string. If you opt to cancel the string, then my jab recovers - if it misses you for some other reason - before your high crush or step have reached their hit frames, and if you did in fact delay the string, the delay would allow my jab to counter-hit you. It could stop your momentum, depending on the string you are using the delay on and how long you are thinking to delay it.

Based on my testing in the alpha demo, a string could be as high as 20 frames delayable, then it has to apply the i13-20 for the followup string with that. This is all considering that you've recognized that there is a delay at all, and as such a i9-13 jab could in fact beat out a string that was further delayed.

That's all a big guess to me. Which I do not like.

 

[Matt Ponton]

And guessing is not done in other fighting games?

 

[DrDogg]

And guessing is not done in other fighting games?

It's not a forced guess in almost every situation, no.

 

[Rikuto]

Safest theoretical application of a sidestep....

Do safe attack that is maybe -2 or so and have it blocked.

Immediately Fuzzy Guard to avoid potential incoming throws and fast attacks.

Sidestep immediately afterwards to avoid slower incoming attacks (strict timing).

Attack out of sidestep to get the counter-hit.

Almost sounds like a VF situation, doesn't it? That's because you are taking additional steps to minimize your risk and eliminate the most likely dangers from the situation. This too is a guess of course, but it certainly eliminates a massive bulk of the dangers.

 

[d3v]

It's not a forced guess in almost every situation, no.

But we have forced guesses in other fighting games as well. Ambiguous crossups, high-low mixups, etc.

 

[Rikuto]

But we have forced guesses in other fighting games as well. Ambiguous crossups, high-low mixups, etc.

erm... duck?

Unless, of course, you meant mid-low mixups...

 

[virtuaPAI]

It's not a forced guess in almost every situation, no.

-For the most part, you are exaggerating the situation at hand. You are looking for a game that you can play safe, while being a minimalist about taking risks. As the game is now, there is enough tools in the game where you can play it safe, take minimal risk and get the most out of the game. The Current problem, you do not like to be forced into making a defensive decision, that do not align with your particular style of play. This will not be a game where blocking will be your saving grace. You will come to find (like with the earlier example of the use of a Jab), that there will be multiple "safe" options depending on the situation. This will be a game where you will be constantly thinking, not so much as it is guessing.

Safest theoretical application of a sidestep....

Do safe attack that is maybe -2 or so and have it blocked.

Immediately Fuzzy Guard to avoid potential incoming throws and fast attacks.

Sidestep immediately afterwards to avoid slower incoming attacks (strict timing).

Attack out of sidestep to get the counter-hit.

Almost sounds like a VF situation, doesn't it? That's because you are taking additional steps to minimize your risk and eliminate the most likely dangers from the situation. This too is a guess of course, but it certainly eliminates a massive bulk of the dangers.

-I would change fast attack, with fast mid...other than that add in a throw escape and it will be a total VF situation! Option Select For Defense!

 

[Rikuto]

Yea the only real difference is that in VF you could break a crouch throw if they tried to stop your fuzzy. Other than that, same situation really.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yea the only real difference is that in VF you could break a crouch throw if they tried to stop your fuzzy. Other than that, same situation really.

The other real difference is that VF doesn't have crouch throws on a majority of the cast...

 

[Rikuto]

The other real difference is that VF doesn't have crouch throws on a majority of the cast...

I guess that's true. I play Goh so I forgot that.