I think this is sufficiently key to Tina's game that it deserves its own thread. As discussed in the primary thread, DMC MSR NASHFAN and Django posted a set of force techs that works after several of her hard knockdown moves. I was thinking in a similar direction after playing with Mila's options some but they had put them up first. I've been playing with them and they are incredibly powerful options. I am beginning to think that Tina's optimal strategy may be to very rarely actually go for juggles but to go for hard knockdowns into force techs. She has great difficulty starting pressure but once these get going your opponent is a couple bad guesses away from a lost round, and unlike Mila or Bayman she doesn't give up nearly as much damage to set up the force techs.
To my knowledge, the following moves will allow a force tech:
3p+k
6f+k
hold 3pp
214p
You cannot force tech after 46p or 8p in juggles, and I don't believe it works after a 66f+p by the wall but I need to confirm, so the ground throw is not obsolete. However, in general if you can force tech you should. Your primary options are
1p 6f+k (12 damage, +9 advantage)
hold 3p (~9 damage, +17 advantage)
2p 1p (~5 damage, +19 advantage)
Each of the force techs has advantages in particular situations to make particular setups. For the most part, 1p 6f+k is probably best. It only does slightly less damage than the usual ground throw (exception is after backturned hard knockdown, where you are giving up 17 damage on the ground throw, it may be occasionally worthwhile to just take the extra damage). At +9, a number of options open up; 66f+p will stop any standing attack, 44p will tech crouch even a 9 frame jab and start stun, and 4k and 3k give unsafe and safe mid kick options. Dash up throws are possible (there's a little space) so 33 wr 64f+p is an option. 6f+k will work against anyone without a 9 frame jab, while 214p should work against anyone to reset the force tech situation as well. She has nasty reset options in 44p/4k BT k and 6k kk, as either give a backturned and guaranteed 6f+k to force tech. You should be able to mix up 8p and k if 6k. 214p will reset after 8p.
Hold 3p may be preferable if you'd like to set up throws. Against non 9 framers, it also gives you the option to use 7k as a guard break (should counterhit/close hit a 10 frame jab at +17). Otherwise your options are basically the same, though 46f+p is now available and can be charged a bit.
2p 1p is a bit of an oddity. It doesn't do much damage and it knocks them quite far away, but they are spaced in an interesting situation. 6f+k will always hit. If they do nothing after the tech, 46p will just barely whiff in front of them, but if they guard or crouch, they will be hit for either a +4 guard break (so elbow/throw against everybody) or the adjusted crouch hit damage and knockback. It will also connect against probably any attack they attempt. I believe 46f+p is in a similar situation. So if you expect your opponent to block after the tech this is a good choice to keep the pressure on. They have to be pretty ballsy to not block and 6f+k will hit them for sure so they have to commit to their option as soon as they tech up. I don't think they can react to it at all. I suspect 66k may be safely spaced after this option as well but need to test. This may be good if it will get them to a wall as well.
You can also force tech with
2p2p (not much reason to do this but does give +26 advantage, they are at a very far distance though. Maybe 3p+k setup?).
1k (pretty crappy as well, only +7 advantage, a weaker version of 1p 6f+k. Might be some situations where 1p wouldn't reach and you'd have to use this)
but really why? If you find out please do let us know.
Given Tina's difficulties in establishing pressure, I'm of the opinion this is really what she should be trying to establish from even most stun combos rather than a launch. Obviously if you get the CB by all means take the damage, but she can get a basically guaranteed 214p to force tech after 8p (not stagger escapable on fast, but CB is) and gets 6f+k after kk and bt k. (sadly, though this is a backturned situation they are forced up facing you). I'm not sure if there are any juggles that give you a force tech situation guaranteed but I need to explore that more. You're not giving up boatloads of damage either relative to most juggles (~10 to 15 points for an air throw or 8p 2f+p juggle), and these will work on any weight class and don't require any stun threshold to set up. Essentially after almost any stun that's long enough you can mix up between 8p 214p and 6f+k options to get the force tech situation. Also, hold 3pp now becomes a much more legitimate threat as the opponent really needs to block/sidestep/hold that second p or else end up in a force tech situation, so the throw/mid mixup is actually very strong. Your opponent has to call your bluff or you're in/throwing them off hold 3p.
Also, like Helena, Tina has a safe force tech setup off juggles with 6pp2p. After the 2p if they don't tech immediately either of 2p or 1p (not hold 3p) will start the force tech up, while if they do tech at least 1p leaves you at only -3. You can't really wait and see if they tech unfortunately, you have to input right after the 6pp2p but you're safe on whiff. If they catch on and start teching you can start catching them with an 8k/8f+p mixup. I'm not sure if this works on all techs but in this case the active frames of either are perfectly timed to catch them as they come up from the tech, and the animations are fairly similar. I think 8k is still unholdable but I'm not sure how bad off you are after the hold or if you're reasonably safe. If for some reason you end up juggling and you'd like to force tech as far as I know this is the best option. Except for Helena I don't think there are juggle force techs.
To my knowledge, the following moves will allow a force tech:
3p+k
6f+k
hold 3pp
214p
You cannot force tech after 46p or 8p in juggles, and I don't believe it works after a 66f+p by the wall but I need to confirm, so the ground throw is not obsolete. However, in general if you can force tech you should. Your primary options are
1p 6f+k (12 damage, +9 advantage)
hold 3p (~9 damage, +17 advantage)
2p 1p (~5 damage, +19 advantage)
Each of the force techs has advantages in particular situations to make particular setups. For the most part, 1p 6f+k is probably best. It only does slightly less damage than the usual ground throw (exception is after backturned hard knockdown, where you are giving up 17 damage on the ground throw, it may be occasionally worthwhile to just take the extra damage). At +9, a number of options open up; 66f+p will stop any standing attack, 44p will tech crouch even a 9 frame jab and start stun, and 4k and 3k give unsafe and safe mid kick options. Dash up throws are possible (there's a little space) so 33 wr 64f+p is an option. 6f+k will work against anyone without a 9 frame jab, while 214p should work against anyone to reset the force tech situation as well. She has nasty reset options in 44p/4k BT k and 6k kk, as either give a backturned and guaranteed 6f+k to force tech. You should be able to mix up 8p and k if 6k. 214p will reset after 8p.
Hold 3p may be preferable if you'd like to set up throws. Against non 9 framers, it also gives you the option to use 7k as a guard break (should counterhit/close hit a 10 frame jab at +17). Otherwise your options are basically the same, though 46f+p is now available and can be charged a bit.
2p 1p is a bit of an oddity. It doesn't do much damage and it knocks them quite far away, but they are spaced in an interesting situation. 6f+k will always hit. If they do nothing after the tech, 46p will just barely whiff in front of them, but if they guard or crouch, they will be hit for either a +4 guard break (so elbow/throw against everybody) or the adjusted crouch hit damage and knockback. It will also connect against probably any attack they attempt. I believe 46f+p is in a similar situation. So if you expect your opponent to block after the tech this is a good choice to keep the pressure on. They have to be pretty ballsy to not block and 6f+k will hit them for sure so they have to commit to their option as soon as they tech up. I don't think they can react to it at all. I suspect 66k may be safely spaced after this option as well but need to test. This may be good if it will get them to a wall as well.
You can also force tech with
2p2p (not much reason to do this but does give +26 advantage, they are at a very far distance though. Maybe 3p+k setup?).
1k (pretty crappy as well, only +7 advantage, a weaker version of 1p 6f+k. Might be some situations where 1p wouldn't reach and you'd have to use this)
but really why? If you find out please do let us know.
Given Tina's difficulties in establishing pressure, I'm of the opinion this is really what she should be trying to establish from even most stun combos rather than a launch. Obviously if you get the CB by all means take the damage, but she can get a basically guaranteed 214p to force tech after 8p (not stagger escapable on fast, but CB is) and gets 6f+k after kk and bt k. (sadly, though this is a backturned situation they are forced up facing you). I'm not sure if there are any juggles that give you a force tech situation guaranteed but I need to explore that more. You're not giving up boatloads of damage either relative to most juggles (~10 to 15 points for an air throw or 8p 2f+p juggle), and these will work on any weight class and don't require any stun threshold to set up. Essentially after almost any stun that's long enough you can mix up between 8p 214p and 6f+k options to get the force tech situation. Also, hold 3pp now becomes a much more legitimate threat as the opponent really needs to block/sidestep/hold that second p or else end up in a force tech situation, so the throw/mid mixup is actually very strong. Your opponent has to call your bluff or you're in/throwing them off hold 3p.
Also, like Helena, Tina has a safe force tech setup off juggles with 6pp2p. After the 2p if they don't tech immediately either of 2p or 1p (not hold 3p) will start the force tech up, while if they do tech at least 1p leaves you at only -3. You can't really wait and see if they tech unfortunately, you have to input right after the 6pp2p but you're safe on whiff. If they catch on and start teching you can start catching them with an 8k/8f+p mixup. I'm not sure if this works on all techs but in this case the active frames of either are perfectly timed to catch them as they come up from the tech, and the animations are fairly similar. I think 8k is still unholdable but I'm not sure how bad off you are after the hold or if you're reasonably safe. If for some reason you end up juggling and you'd like to force tech as far as I know this is the best option. Except for Helena I don't think there are juggle force techs.
