What's the point of the new moves¿

[TRI Mike]

I haven't really played Busa since vanilla so I just recently found his new moves. But I'm having trouble figuring out what to use them for. I'm especifically talking about:


WR
SS //
The new ender


Any help with this¿ I'm especially pissed off about 4PK being so unsafe now. I can't figure out how to keep the opponent at bay, being with positive frames and things like that.

 

[Juan The Man]

44p is great its a 2-in- 1 the allows a Cb follow up and its decent against blocking opponent s
w4k9p is good only when an opponent is countering the normal punch that follows(its +2) can u say izuna
The moves above are just options for mixing and opponent use the correctly and they do wonders sadly the new 3k
is useless.its slow horrible on block I can be punished low or high.
if you want keep the enemy a bay use you ninpo but if u dont hv time try 66k or 666p these two moves have great range and are both safe and every now and then you'll face a opponent with a charging low (*cough helana)use 9k good range and very few people know is punishable and those that do know how to punish it have to know its coming.....hope this helps

 

[Jaguar360]

44p is just another good mid punch stun. Not necessary, but welcomed.
WR H+K is a good distance closer even though it's really unsafe.
The 9P string enders are mainly for throw baits. They have failed me every time I tried to use them, but @ballr4evr has made great use of 4H+K9P in particular.
I miss DOA5's 4PK too man. :'( At least the new one looks cool and does a bit more raw damage when both hits connect.
I think H+KKP was added just so that players couldn't just duck under H+KKK is avoid it. H+KKK is the guard-breaking high and H+KKP is a less safe mid alternative.

 

[Stradivariuz]

Sadly, none of the his new moves really make up for the loss of 4PK/PP4PK as a pressure tool. If you want frame advantage you'll mainly have to rely on his other guard breaks (e.g. 6KP, Ongyoin PPP/4P+K, 66K, Ongyoin 8P)--most of which are either slow or holdable on reaction.

As you can read from the posts above, most of Busa's new moves are situational and/or read dependent. They give him a few more options, but don't really address his main shortcomings nor change the way he is played at a fundamental level. It's also worth noting (you might have noticed) that some of the properties of his moves have also been altered. Notably:

- 214p can be used to guarantee a CB follow-up
- In stun, 9K and 666p now cause a bound
- Ongyoin K no longer wall splats
- 3P+K, P+K can be used as pseudo force tech, guaranteeing 6p

 

[TRI Mike]

I just can't seem to get used to him without the 4PK frame trap. I dunno.

 

[Brute]

Sorry, but no. 44P is stupid. The stun is 16 frames for a 15 frame mid punch. 6P is only 13 frames and gives a 2 frame stun. And has two possible follow-ups. What do we get in return for this discrepancy? 44P is -8 on block (9P is -9) does 2 more damage. 2 measly points of damage.
44P's only use is as a spacing tool. It's really hard to describe and to pull off, but I don't consider it a good pressure tool at all.

Anyway, PP4PK can be used if people like to retaliate from your jab strings as a pressure tool. Condition PP4P, then toss that fucker out. Still, way way way way way less useful than the old one.

WR4K9P is used to make people whiff mid P holds expecting the hella-telegraphed WR4KP
4H+K9P is just dumb as fuck. I don't even...

H+KKP can be used if people just like to duck the whole string, but otherwise it has no discernible use I've found.

WR H+K covers a surprising amount of distance quickly, and with good spacing baits, can be used to snub SSing and even as a unique whiff punish then sends your opponent flying into shit very, very far away.

33T is godly on those low hold spammers.

44P+K actually crushes mids in certain frames, and is his best post-CB move (duh) most of the time.

9K might as well be a new move since it behave so differently. It's much better now.

 

[NinjaSol1988]

i hope the next patch that comes out might help him a little bit im happy he still a threat but they could at least give this super ninja a decent pressure tool well here to hopeing

 

[ballr4evr]

Sorry, but no. 44P is stupid. The stun is 16 frames for a 15 frame mid punch. 6P is only 13 frames and gives a 2 frame stun. And has two possible follow-ups. What do we get in return for this discrepancy? 44P is -8 on block (9P is -9) does 2 more damage. 2 measly points of damage.
44P's only use is as a spacing tool. It's really hard to describe and to pull off, but I don't consider it a good pressure tool at all.

Anyway, PP4PK can be used if people like to retaliate from your jab strings as a pressure tool. Condition PP4P, then toss that fucker out. Still, way way way way way less useful than the old one.

WR4K9P is used to make people whiff mid P holds expecting the hella-telegraphed WR4KP
4H+K9P is just dumb as fuck. I don't even...

H+KKP can be used if people just like to duck the whole string, but otherwise it has no discernible use I've found.

WR H+K covers a surprising amount of distance quickly, and with good spacing baits, can be used to snub SSing and even as a unique whiff punish then sends your opponent flying into shit very, very far away.

33T is godly on those low hold spammers.

44P+K actually crushes mids in certain frames, and is his best post-CB move (duh) most of the time.

9K might as well be a new move since it behave so differently. It's much better now.

I kinda agree with Brute here for 44P, it is sometimes effective but I rarely use it as it is a longer punch frame and is not much more damaging.

As for the 4H+K9P, I personally think it's as a good throw bait with 46T or an izuna or even into a handstand. Specifically with the handstand, it allows you to reset and continue pressuring your opponent. Hope this helps

 

[NinjaSol1988]

does ryu have offense holds cause i dont think for as long as i played i dont think i even know them

 

[Brute]

does ryu have offense holds cause i dont think for as long as i played i dont think i even know them

8T (teleport throw), ongyoin 8T (jumping head toss, guillotine throw from Ninja Gaiden) and WR 4T (handstand, cracks neck with feet).

8T is mainly used to avoid WU kicks and the such. Ongyoin 8T has some diabolical uses. Complicated to explain.
WR 4T is kinda stupid.

 

[NinjaSol1988]

hmm i wish he had one not so noticable though

 

[Brute]

hmm i wish he had one not so noticable though

So do we all. For a grappler, he has really limited OH options.
Personally, I feel like 1T should be an OH. He has 2T for his standard low punish, 33T for his heavy low punish (ie: HiC lows) and then he has 1T, which is just sorta like 2T but not (slightly stronger and slower). Making it a 10f OH would make it far more valid, and would help Ryu a lot in some of the MUs he currently struggles in.

 

[NinjaSol1988]

to bad 66t isnt a OH since i see alot people use it when the they want to get him away from the environment or the cliff i cant even remember how many times it saved me from bad position i was in or when i wasnt sure if my inzua combo would do enough damage

 

[Brute]

to bad 66t isnt a OH since i see alot people use it when the they want to get him away from the environment or the cliff i cant even remember how many times it saved me from bad position i was in or when i wasnt sure if my inzua combo would do enough damage

Yeah, they'd have to beef up the initial frames to make it an OH, but it would be cool for sure. I'd be heaven.

 

[Jin Masters]

WR H+K great distance cover and can be used in pseudo techs after ending a juggle WR4KP
H+KKP strongest jab string ender with a free down punch if opponent doesn't back tech
And the 9P Enders is good for IZUNA baits after 4H+K hits

 

[TRI Mike]

You could just not do anything and Izuna anyway, lol

 

[SilverForte]

PPKKP is his best new move from what I've played so far, it's the best way to finish combos most of the time, it does a little bit less than the air throw, but leaves you in a much better situation, only time I use the air throw now is if it's the only option or it'll knock them into a wall.

 

[Brute]

PPKKP is his best new move from what I've played so far, it's the best way to finish combos most of the time, it does a little bit less than the air throw, but leaves you in a much better situation, only time I use the air throw now is if it's the only option or it'll knock them into a wall.

Nets only 1-2 more damage than my BnB combo on almost all thresholds, except provides no wall hit, floor hit or hard knockdown.

Since I have the air throw for raw damage, I look at his alternate juggles to give me a favorable post-juggle scenario. Since PPKKP gives me a much less favorable position than my regular juggles and the damage "boost" is negligible, I still have basically no use for it.

The most useful of his new moves is 33T. There is absolutely no denying that. After that, as much as it pains me to say it, it would be WR H+K

 

[Tenryuga]

Doesn't PPKKP screw with their tech roll timing?

 

[SilverForte]

I'd like to hear what other juggle options you use brute, for me ppkkp is good because it leaves them right at my feet, and if they tech I can press my advantage, all my other options recover slower or send them too far away.