Lets be serious here Alpha-152 needs to be banned.

[RoboJoe]

With 5U just over a week away, wouldn't it be best to wait before deciding to ban her? We don't know how she's been changed in the new game. If she gets banned now and turns out to be much worse, it'll be pointless, especially since there's no tournaments between now and 5U's release.

 

[Matt Ponton]

7K according to the frame data is -5 (-3 at tip range). The guard break variant is -2. Is this data wrong?

Confirmed, That's how it is in 1.03a.

 

[Rikuto]

Blades mostly got the wins with Helena, I've never seen anyone take Alpha to the top from start to finish either in Japan or USA. In fact I barely see Alpha in tourneys. But yeah, TOTALLY broken

5U may be a different story but 1.03 Alpha is not that great. No one's ever given me trouble because I know the MU very well and don't use slow characters. If you use Bayman or Bass you can't honestly say Alpha is better off than Kasumi or Christie.

Yes, we can.

This isn't right. Alpha players still struggle, but it's whatever. In my opinion it's hella weak to ban her just because she makes you mad. Get over it and adapt.

All the likely suspects are voting against her though, and it's kinda funny how a loss can make someone so bitter when even good Alphas typically lose more than they win.

The bold is the important part. Bad players being bad are not an excuse to allow a ridiculous character free reign in the hands of someone who is not.

And really, you haven't even tried to counter any of the arguments that were made about her. You've just accused us of being salty, which is pretty much exactly what I expected. Low level players have no idea just how stupid she is, and obviously Xcal and his friends aren't going to advocate for her removal as she is a money maker -- so who else is going to do it?

 

[synce]

If Alpha's so much better than than those characters how come there's not a flood of Alphas in tourneys? All I see is Helena, Sarah, and Christie. Actually most of the stuff in OP can apply to Helena, which I'm sure you want banned too The other stuff is just inaccurate or doesn't apply in 5U.

As for Kasumi vs Alpha, Alpha is overall slower and gets nothing guaranteed. She also has to rely entirely on her average juggles to do damage, she gets no bonus from counters or wake up kicks. Christie does everything better than Alpha too, that's why you see her at tourneys and not Alpha.

 

[Rikuto]

I haven't asked for Helena to be banned at all, have I?

See, there you go with the accusations. Little maturity, please.

 

[Crext]

Could someone break down why she is such a big deal in 5U?

What I get so far is:

a) 56% grab (on high counter)
c) has a 9 frame punch initiator
d) none sidestep able
b) strings of death

All I see is alpha being alpha?

 

[Tenryuga]

Alpha might as well get things guaranteed because of her throw damage. I don't think you guys understand how much of a mental blow B.U.R.S.T is. Most of the time the player is taking actions to avoid it like SE into fuzzy guard, crush launching out of stun etc. Any good player would take advantage of the fear and CB the hell out of the opponent until they decide that they need to stop worrying about B.U.R.S.T or HCT in general and start worrying about you getting to the threshold. It's not like she is unstoppable but she's a tad bit ridiculous. I would rather deal with Sarah than deal with Alpha.

 

[deathofaninja]

-3 critical bursts... well one that needs to be done within like a 1 frame window, with that burst subtracted from most players, she has as many as Ayane. And her other two are mids which get reversed ALL the time.

-Her parry has been NERFED in DOA5U? If you watched the videos on stream you should be able to tell it has slowed down, and it wasn't safe in DOA5 either. I could still get knocked on my ass after using her parry, with her counters already doing no damage and usually result into me getting knocked back (as with many players).

- Side-stepping is nonexistent? What!?

- No wake-up kicks

- She's useless against a wall, and on MANY stages

And Rikuto the tier list is enough for me not to say anything as she doesn't completely dominate ANY character (only players that don't know how to duck), and why would I waste my ammo all at once?

I also think it's lame that you suggest a ban before the game is even released.

 

[Rikuto]

The reason that low level players fail to see an issue here is because they do not understand proper DOA Meta.

Alpha has ridiculously long strings, which means there is no point at which you can feel confident of either a sidestep or an interrupt. To be stunned is an inevitability, and once you are stunned there is no smart way to get out of the situation. she has three different ways to CB you and take away 60% of your lifebar, and you don't dare hold because of her throw threat.

So basically, there is no intelligent way to fight her. In any given situation, she has the advantage.

13 frame mid? Good her for, I have a 13 frame mid as well. She has a 9 frame jab, guess what it beats that AND my high.

 

[Julius Rage]

This is why i didnt do a top 5 today

 

[deathofaninja]

Delete

 

[SweetRevenge117]

Deathofaninja you fail to understand that ss her is pointless since her strings last forever and retrack. Synce do you even play the game competitively? It doesn't sound like it since you say alpha and her 9 frame jab isn't a fast character. Smh people.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Deathofaninja you fail to understand that ss her is pointless since her strings last forever and retrack. Synce do you even play the game competitively? It doesn't sound like it since you say alpha and her 9 frame jab isn't a fast character. Smh people.

Says the guy with both his characters having 11 frame mid, one of which crushes and is safe on guard .

 

[Blackburry]

Yeah after really thinking about it she probably should be banned. I just didn't want to jump to a decision since it is a pretty big one for the community.

 

[Tenryuga]

-3 critical bursts... well one that needs to be done within like a 1 frame window, with that burst subtracted from most players, she has as many as Ayane. And her other two are mids which get reversed ALL the time.

What one frame window? Her CB's are 19i for the high, and 20i for both mids. You have 6P, 3P, your jab and KKK I believe as deep non-slow escapable stuns that allow for the burst without you having to force a mixup.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Yeah after really thinking about it she probably should be banned. I just didn't want to jump to a decision since it is a pretty big one for the community.

It is a big one.

It's difficult to unban a character, as their only saving grace is patch changes.

 

[Rikuto]

Are you just talking about DOA in general now?

Here is the part where you don't understand the meta. Some characters you can avoid being stunned unless you are playing like a jackass. Alpha isn't one of them. Neither is Helena or even Kokoro really. But neither Helena nor Kokoro can capitalize on that stun the same way that Alpha can for pure, effortless damage.

Even if I'm fighting someone like Jann Lee with his braindead dragon gunner into stun, I know how to limit his continuation of it and I know how to react to his CB setups. I know which part of the threshold to hold mid kick, and I know when to hold mid P. I can play the odds and play reaction to limit his effectiveness.

There are no such indications when fighting alpha, because she has too many options that lead to extreme damage from all points of entry.

 

[deathofaninja]

Says the guy with both his characters having 11 frame mid, one of which crushes and is safe on guard .

Not to mention that he's wrong.

 

[Awesmic]

I haven't asked for Helena to be banned at all, have I?

No... you wanted her nerfed. And IIRC, you and Mamba were constantly going at it at the time.

That said, why ban when you can simply make nerf suggestions (or in RoboJoe's case, wait) to TN in the hopes they'll fix what need fixing before street date? You guys ARE high-level players. I think they'd listen to you especially with proper evidence. That way, the dedicated Alpha players can enjoy playing their character to some form of competitive legitimacy, if that's truly your concern.

 

[deathofaninja]

Here is the part where you don't understand the meta. Some characters you can avoid being stunned unless you are playing like a jackass. Alpha isn't one of them. Neither is Helena or even Kokoro really. But neither Helena nor Kokoro can capitalize on that stun the same way that Alpha can for pure, effortless damage.

Even if I'm fighting someone like Jann Lee with his braindead dragon gunner into stun, I know how to limit his continuation of it and I know how to react to his CB setups. I know which part of the threshold to hold mid kick, and I know when to hold P.

There are no such indications when fighting alpha, because she has too many options that lead to extreme damage from all points of entry.

But yet her ever SO impossible strings are easy to reverse and are extremely predictable at this point.

I'm looking at the EVER SO official tier list, and I see no reason as to why she should be banned. I find her predictable in most cases, and most of her moves can totally be side-stepped. Why do people pick Christie when others pick Alpha? Why do people jump to certain levels? Because Alpha has severe weaknesses that people exploit, and that does not warrant a ban.

Alpha is weak, and in DOA5U she will be a feather-weight which means the weight she's throwing is being thrown right back at her.

And once again... the game isn't out. And she's been a "money-maker" for NEC? I don't see your point here. She hasn't won many tournaments. For Christ sake, ELIOT is a money maker when in the hands of Xcal.