RuNNing Riot
Member
Why is Kasumi suddenly getting loads of offensive holds?
IGN Pro League DOA5 Pro Gaming Tournament
- Thread starter DrDogg
- Start date
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
Arnell Long
Active Member
Most of us seen that although I didn't point it out like some people did. It was a technical error with the Stream coming back from break a few times without her notice.
Stay classy guys.
Arnell Long
Active Member
True, I can respect that.
You guys are horrible.
Arnell Long
Active Member
Calm down bro, I stated of not pointing it out. No sense in continuing this so lets move on.
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
About time a good Kasumi played. She was my main in DOA4. Good to see her with her new tools on DOA5 and actually decently at that. She's much safer now.
I'm finally getting around to watching the day three stream and I can't help but notice some of the "pros" constantly holding while stunned. Constantly.
I'm stunned, hold, my hold whiffs, I get stunned again, hold again, repeat.
The "Critical Burst" mechanic comes into play at the end of that exchange there but what if it was expanded on and brought in earlier?
What I mean is if I'm stunned and whiff a hold, the next move doesn't just stun me again, it puts me into Critical Burst no matter what move it is.
I think this would seriously tone down the constant holding that's still be abused and encourage players to play smarter and not just throw out holds. Thoughts?
I'm stunned, hold, my hold whiffs, I get stunned again, hold again, repeat.
The "Critical Burst" mechanic comes into play at the end of that exchange there but what if it was expanded on and brought in earlier?
What I mean is if I'm stunned and whiff a hold, the next move doesn't just stun me again, it puts me into Critical Burst no matter what move it is.
I think this would seriously tone down the constant holding that's still be abused and encourage players to play smarter and not just throw out holds. Thoughts?
Raansu
Well-Known Member
If you don't have anything constructive to say then don't post anything.
PhoenixVFIRE
Well-Known Member
well with holds being toned down and longer recovery, there really shouldn't be a problem anyway because you can practically watch for a hold and have enough time to react and even stun differently. The only real problem I see is people are still just playing it like DOA4 and not putting to much thought and strategy into how they will play the stun, punishing and critical burst systems. I know everyone was happy for Rikuto and Kayane playing the sit down stun and burst string, but do the characters not have any other moves that do that? otherwise Kasumi will never touch me with that kick. I simple won't allow that nonsense. I couldn't believe almost NO one countered Kayane's slam down portion other than Vanessa(and even she only did once that I remember)
Chris Harris
Well-Known Member
You have to understand 2-3 days is not enough to erase what DoA 4 was. Kayane was the one using it the most consistently (didn't really see all of Mamba's fights) and she gave you literally 1 chance to guess out of it.That was all like day 0 crap so of course people are going to keep going for holds.
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Kayane seemed to be playing DOA5 as opposed to everyone else playing DOA4. She was popping out those Critical Bursts like it was her job. The new kick Kasumi has looks like everything after is guaranteed. The kick puts you into a deep stun which is un-hold-able.
Then she critical stuns for another guaranteed damage combo. Seems to be a lot more options this time around to counter holds.
Then she critical stuns for another guaranteed damage combo. Seems to be a lot more options this time around to counter holds.
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Of course, that "Tournament" was silly. Master got an unfair advantage since he played tons before it as opposed to everyone just trying it out. Kayane obviously got practice before hand as well. No way she'd be able to learn DOA5 Kasumi otherwise.
Game Over
Well-Known Member
^ What CW said!!
Plus, you seem to be forgetting that attacks that either lift, knock, or sweep the opponent off his/her feet cause stuns that CAN'T be held out of. So, in the situations you are talking about where the opponent is whiffing holds, you either THROW them, or you use an attack with a lift/sit/sweep stun so you get GUARANTEED damage (or frame advantage)!
No need (just yet) for an application of "auto-critical burst" in these situations. You are WAAAAAAAAY too obsessive about holds during stuns. The game is not gonna COMPLETELY get rid of them, so just let it go, and learn to see the improvements that are there AS the improvements that they are! All you're currently doing is going out of your way trying to make the game look bad, when it is already FAAAAAR better than DOA4.
Lei
Member
There were a number of people who actually played the game early and for people to learn on the spot wasn't inhibited at all. I learned so much in 3-4 hours that a lot of people were quite surprised, but of course that depends on if the person knows what to learn and how to go about it so it's on a per person basis.
Keyley, I think you are referring to me when you said someone told you you could step in the middle of a few of hayabusa strings as I told a few people that. I am not sure exactly who you are(I think I do) but none the less it was fun meeting you.
In the meat of this discussion, Holds now in a lot of situations are quite useless. They do virtually no damage especially in stun state where it scales. Your better staying safe and SE'ing and blocking. As it stands sit down stuns and CE's being a big part of setting up unholdable situations and leading to huge damage is a big deal and I feel no other changes need to be made to that. That is just my opinion but as it stands I feel they have the right idea.
Movement is another thing people aren't addressing too much of but it's one thing I picked up really fast and tried to exploit as much as possible in the casuals I had. If you want to avoid triangle based encounters LEARN YOUR MOVEMENT AND PRACTICE IT. Movement is seriously that big of a deal now and I do encourage it and Rikuto agreed when I said if you want to play solid, with them(team ninja) actually applying smart tracking/no tracking learn to move effeciently. An example of this is Zack, in my testing there are quite a number of his kicks both in strings and outside of strings that contain smart tracking, mainly his thunder kicks. The mids mainly, when I was testing if I stepped toward the kicks I got hit if you step away you won't get hit. That is just from hitomi step testing not sure if it applies to everyone else or if it was or wasn't a specific situation, maybe I am wrong. If I am then I will happily be corrected in the long run however when I tested this it was the result.
The new system so far needs some changes but as far as it stands the game does actually allow a solid player to excel heavily versus a player who gets nervous and hates to block but hold. Holding is literally a relief now to see someone do and isn't actually a threat, Mamba was the first one to address this to me and I agreed entirely. If you hold you are missing step punishes, throw punishes etc. Most situations actually can be solidified if you just block and evaluate your punishes. Holds are very weak outside of advanced holds and even with advanced holds I am sure you understand the risks in them as well.
I am posting this pretty late so I am not sure everything entirely makes sense, however I am sure quite a few of you understand the base points. If not I will gladly rephrase them.
Shinigamimatt
Active Member
Well, that was certainly insightful, Lei, thanks. Wanted to address the part where you mentioned spacing with Hitomi. I think you might be right in your assumption. (If I read right) I assume if you tested with another character, you'd get another result. For instance, I know we haven't seen him yet, but I'm almost positive that Jann Lee will probably be amazing with his spacing compared to someone like Hitomi.
Spacing is important and Jann Lee has always been one of the best at that. He's most likely going to be top tier again. Kasumi looks much safer now, and we already saw with a fact that she has the tools to cause deep stuns. Now her pokes and lack of mix-up will be safer. She'll finally deserve her "OP status" that casuals accuse her of. A bit of an overstatement, but still...
Spacing is important and Jann Lee has always been one of the best at that. He's most likely going to be top tier again. Kasumi looks much safer now, and we already saw with a fact that she has the tools to cause deep stuns. Now her pokes and lack of mix-up will be safer. She'll finally deserve her "OP status" that casuals accuse her of. A bit of an overstatement, but still...