DOA5 E3 Version Q&A

[AKNova7]

There isn't a 'scenario'. How about you ask what the terms are for DOA and stop trying to transfer over terminology from a different game. As I said before, you can get frame advantage from different moves in DOA and not just guard breaks.

Did you even read what I said? You know what, never mind, I forget that people are just hostile here for no reason whatsoever.

I just said that I knew there were more than Guard Break based frame advantage in DOA, I simply asked what you would CALL it, and then gave suggestions. If you know the answer, enlighten me.

 

[Rikuto]

Rage! Anger! Baseless Hostility!



fffffffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuu!

 

[Deleted member 473]

Hoed him lmao

 

[Allan Paris]

Did you even read what I said? You know what, never mind, I forget that people are just hostile here for no reason whatsoever.

I read everything you have said. Which is why in the end I told you to ask what the terms are for DOA. You keep referencing to what things are called from another game and further confusing yourself (to the point were you think we don't know what to call things) and possibly others. No one is hostile, at least on my part.

I just said that I knew there were more than Guard Break based frame advantage in DOA, I simply asked what you would CALL it, and then gave suggestions.

Now I have to ask you, did you even read what you said? Not once did you ask for the terms for DOA, well, you didn't ask me. You never gave 'suggestions', you kept comparing/referencing SC terms to DOA.

If you know the answer, enlighten me.

I am more than happy to enlighten you. Here you go: http://freestepdodge.com/wiki/dead-or-alive-terminology/

You can learn our terminology, properly.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Shouldn't fighting game terminology be the same across the board? I'm confused. Frame advantage in Soul Calibur isn't the same as in DOA or other games? What? Then they shouldn't be called the same thing.

 

[Rikuto]

It should be, but it never has because DOA is an awkward child where things don't quite work right and the english language is only so big. The other option is we start arbitrarily making shit up on behalf of the entire FGC.

 

[Codemaster92163]

I don't mean for this to be rude - just throwing in my two cents on an argument (that technically doesn't belong in a Q&A), but to DrDogg, I don't think it was the person you were talking to that was speaking theory fighter, but rather you.

If a situation does not go as you think it should, something that bothers you because you believe "players should play like _____ and do ____ on ____," then that's pretty much talking theory there.

In any case, I think a smart player would sometimes attack on a frame disadvantage. Not to say that the player you fought was smart, but if a player really was, they wouldn't play so dull as to allow their opponent to win by numbers alone. All good players understand that people take gambles, and it's more lucrative to take those gambles when you're at a health/frame advantage than not. Thinking of that, the disadvantaged opponent should be guessing when his foe will try to do something apart from the status quo. If they think you won't utilize your frames to hit them quickly, perhaps they will try to beat out whatever it is they think you will do. AKA, attack off of disadvantage. I do it, as do other players.

Good players won't simply allow themselves to play the role of the dog in a Pavlovian experiment. If they know their opponent is highly skilled, they shouldn't (in most cases) assume that their attacks following move A or B will be repetitious and/or consistent.

Basically, you shouldn't expect (not that you do - this is just a general statement) to win on frame-traps or setups alone. DOA is not the same as other fighters and should not be viewed as such. It shouldn't even be compared to most other aspects in other fighters. That's not to say anything degrading towards the game, just that I find it fallacious to expect tactics that work in other fighters to be copied over to DOA and work just as well. Again, I know that you understand this, but if that's the case, there's no sense in getting mad.

The best part of DOA is knowing that you never know what will happen. It's that same aspect that slightly shrinks the gap between pros and joes, making it a game more people can enjoy.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Fun fact: the term VF players use for attacking out of disadvantage is "abare."

 

[Rikuto]

The best part of DOA is knowing that you never know what will happen. It's that same aspect that slightly shrinks the gap between pros and joes, making it a game more people can enjoy.

Now, I appreciate your statement, but this is how it actually feels to some people.... Drdogg included, I would imagine.

The worst part of DOA is knowing that whatever the fuck you do it doesn't matter cause the game is designed to be random as hell. It's that same aspect that makes it damn near impossible to form any coherent strategy within the game, making it a game that competitive players refuse to touch.

One mans gold is another mans..... well, you get the idea.

And apparently I am an Abare player. Who knew.

 

[Codemaster92163]

^ I definitely do. But, thankfully, the game isn't completely random. Things that should work most often do as seen in most any match. There's just the element of uncertainty thrown in there.

However, I don't agree with the last sentence of that quote. You can make a strategy, it just won't always work. I'm sure you'll agree with me on that =P And if competitive players refused to touch it...well, there wouldn't be any competitions xD

 

[Arnell Long]

What happen to the questions?

I'm seeing everything but lol...

 

[MajesticBlue]

Iam just bummed out were not gonna get any frame data...........
(Yeah its worthless but still...)
......Loves me some frames.......

 

[Raansu]

The best part of DOA is knowing that you never know what will happen. It's that same aspect that slightly shrinks the gap between pros and joes, making it a game more people can enjoy.

No, that's the worst part about it. It's the very reason why the majority of the community despises DoA4.

 

[Arnell Long]

Iam just bummed out were not gonna get any frame data...........
(Yeah its worthless but still...)
......Loves me some frames.......

What would of been cool also if we got detailed frame data from downloaded replays of other players.

 

[DrDogg]

Maybe we should just refer to it as "Frame Advantage" and leave it at that, because, it seems as if we don't have a way to describe attacks that are not guard breaks that give frame advantage on block. In SC, it's the same thing, Guard Breaks and Frame Advantage. Problem is that we just refer to positive moves as "Frame Traps", even though that also means the act of using the move with frame advantage to trap someone with your follow-up. This just won't do.

I knew it wasn't the only way to be positive in frames, but there's not really any specific way to refer to moves that have frame advantage on block in this scenario, it seems. Because I'm pretty sure that safe in this game and in Soul Calibur is not the term to refer to it either.

A guard break in SC generally grants frame advantage, but there are attacks that give frame advantage that aren't classified as guard breaks. Guard break is most certainly not a universal term for frame advantage, even in SC.

Just say the move grants advantage or has plus frames or has frame advantage. There's no need for a designated term for an attack that's advantage on block.

I don't mean for this to be rude - just throwing in my two cents on an argument (that technically doesn't belong in a Q&A), but to DrDogg, I don't think it was the person you were talking to that was speaking theory fighter, but rather you.

VPai was definitely playing theory fighter. He's never played as Akira in DOA5. Everything he said was 100% theory fighter.

My original point was that my opponent didn't care about attacking out of disadvantage because DOA doesn't really punish you for doing so like other fighters do. Then VPai and others started tearing apart my post acting like I don't know what a frame trap is and now you're acting like I expected to win the match based on frame data alone.

Let's go back to the original point. DOA does not punish you for attacking out of frame advantage like other fighting games do. In the scenario I stated, there were only a handful of options I could use at +12 and they were all either unsafe if blocked, didn't inflict much damage on hit, or were lackluster for other various reasons.

The best part of DOA is knowing that you never know what will happen. It's that same aspect that slightly shrinks the gap between pros and joes, making it a game more people can enjoy.

So more people will enjoy a game that has a smaller gap between the casual players and the pros? I don't disagree with that logic, but that's not what I've been discussing these past few months. The game will appeal to the casuals, that's not even up for debate. What many people on this site are trying to do is modify the game so that more competitive players (pros if you want to use that terminology) will pick up the game.

When you never know what will happen, and the gap between casual players and pros lessens, that drives pros away. We're specifically trying to remove some of that from the game.

But, thankfully, the game isn't completely random. Things that should work most often do as seen in most any match. There's just the element of uncertainty thrown in there.

The game is too random for widespread competitive play... period.

And if competitive players refused to touch it...well, there wouldn't be any competitions xD

Which is what we're trying to avoid. We want lots of DOA5 competitions... >_>

Iam just bummed out were not gonna get any frame data...........
(Yeah its worthless but still...)
......Loves me some frames.......

Pretty much everything is -7 or more on block. There are a few exceptions but... yeah.

 

[Allan Paris]

VPai was definitely playing theory fighter. He's never played as Akira in DOA5. Everything he said was 100% theory fighter.

My original point was that my opponent didn't care about attacking out of disadvantage because DOA doesn't really punish you for doing so like other fighters do. Then VPai and others started tearing apart my post acting like I don't know what a frame trap is and now you're acting like I expected to win the match based on frame data alone.

Let's go back to the original point. DOA does not punish you for attacking out of frame advantage like other fighting games do. In the scenario I stated, there were only a handful of options I could use at +12 and they were all either unsafe if blocked, didn't inflict much damage on hit, or were lackluster for other various reasons.

I was neutral with this argument because; I understand where you are coming from as well as the the people who where arguing against you.

However, after watching this @1:21-1:24. That shit was sickening, Kasumi couldn't do that before to that string. I hope that is fixed. If she was able to do that to Christie, I know she can rape other characters with ease who are not that quick. The Kasumi player was being hit (not on block) and she said,"Fuck it, it's my turn to attack now." I know Christie can't suck that bad to the point to where her strings are not respected ON HIT. I have yet to play a good fighting game where I am being hit and it's cool for me to attack during the hit stun.

From playing VF heavily the past few days; I have learned attacking out disadvantage is one of the dumbest things you can do. If you do attack out of disadvantage it shouldn't be made a habit, no matter how good you are. But what Kasumi did in that video, there was no way Christie could bait or react to that properly.

How do you mentally train someone to do/not to do something when the rules are broken?

Beside that, the fight was ok.

 

[Deleted member 473]

You people are selfish.

 

[Raansu]

I was neutral with this argument because; I understand where you are coming from as well as the the people who where arguing against you.

However, after watching this @1:21-1:24. That shit was sickening, Kasumi couldn't do that before to that string. I hope that is fixed. If she was able to do that to Christie, I know she can rape other characters with ease who are not that quick. The Kasumi player was being hit (not on block) and she said,"Fuck it", it's my turn to attack now. I know Christie can't suck that bad to the point to where her strings are not respected ON HIT. I have yet to play a good fighting game where I am being hit and it's cool for me to attack during the hit stun.

From playing VF heavily the past few days; I have learned attacking out disadvantage is one of the dumbest things you can do. If you do attack out of disadvantage it shouldn't be made a habit, no matter how good you are. But what Kasumi did in that video, there was no way Christie could bait or react to that properly.

How do you mentally train someone to do/not to do something when the rules are broken?

Beside that, the fight was ok.

wtf ? She was clearly in a hit stun... That's nuts.

You people are selfish.

DoA4 was garbage, so yeah, you're damn right we are selfish for wanting DoA to be a solid fighter.

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

However, after watching this @1:21-1:24. That shit was sickening, Kasumi couldn't do that before to that string. I hope that is fixed. If she was able to do that to Christie, I know she can rape other characters with ease who are not that quick. The Kasumi player was being hit (not on block) and she said,"Fuck it", it's my turn to attack now. I know Christie can't suck that bad to the point to where her strings are not respected ON HIT. I have yet to play a good fighting game where I am being hit and it's cool for me to attack during the hit stun.

Wow, that's pretty crazy! (I'm not trying to make an excuse) but, it looks like the 3rd punch was delayed, OR they slowed down Christie's 3rd punch in the string, which should be changed back if so, because you're right, Kasumi was like...............um...............no............fuck you Christie!

 

[Allan Paris]

That punch was not delayed. I watched it several times. They were all in succession to each other. I don't even think they slowed down the punch in that string. It seems that the string sucks now, terribly. What she did, why should anyone care that they are at a disadvantage? Forget being at +12 on block with a character. It apparently doesn't matter when you are getting hit by certain characters.

I want to know can that be done to other strings Christie has, and can other characters do that as well to each other?