The 10 hit combo...worthless?

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
As you can see one of eliots new tools in DOA5 is that 10hit combo he performs at the :27 mark in the above video. for those of us that play tekken, they know that every character has at least one and on skilled players they are worthless. eliots on the other hand seems doubly worthless due to the stun/counter system giving multiple opportunities to counter during the first 6hits which consists of 3 mid- punches/high-punch/high kick/a last mid-punch that bounces.

you'd figure team ninja would know how easy it would be for even the most random scrub to counter out of when hit by it and how easy it would be to simply block all the hits since their all mids/highs or even how easily side steppable it looks. I can't think of a single reason to even bother with this move unless theirs some special situation the full string can be used without worrying abuot being countered out of. i know guys like allan paris and rabies were tyring eliot out at the tourney while dogg has full access to the final build of the game. so my question is is this move as worthless as it looks?
 

RoboJoe

Well-Known Member
I see that Eliot jumps after the first hit. I wonder if the player free cancels before the second hit, does Eliot jump and land without attacking? That could be useful for a mixup, since it looks slow enough to bait a counter on reaction and the second hit looks like it might go low enough to crush highs.
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
I don't find those strings useless. Especially if they're deyalable; be able to delay the string is good for baiting CH like Joe said. After his p+k (head butt attack) the second punch (jumping punch) can be free canceled, but he doesn't cancel the punch.
 

Belinea

Active Member
I see that Eliot jumps after the first hit. I wonder if the player free cancels before the second hit, does Eliot jump and land without attacking? That could be useful for a mixup, since it looks slow enough to bait a counter on reaction and the second hit looks like it might go low enough to crush highs.

Nope. And speaking of this move - I wonder how bad it's going to be in doa5? It was freestepable in 4.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
It does seem like it'll be useless doesn't it? You literally just have to sidestep it.

I wish instead of this they worked on giving him more mixups, (assuming they didn't, but if they did then I have no complains whatsoever).
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
The string is useless in sense that it can be SS or held. That is going to be a problem for Eliot players going on the offensive. He's very linear and has to play the stun game. However, the string can be used if free canceling is implemented into it. Most chances are that your opponent will be trying to mid punch hold. You bait that and use his air throw, and they'll wish they had let you finish your string.

On this particular stage (Home) Eliot could have put Brad at the brink of his life if not killing him. When Brad got slammed through that wall there was nothing he could do but SE. Eliot had enough time to land a guaranteed attack. Or bait a hold for his throw which should grant him more guaranteed damage because of the ceiling. I am not 100% sure if his air throw has that capability. It didn't in 4 so it still may be the same.

I personally think that the string can be used against the unknowing but anyone who knows about it and can defend well, I wouldn't reccommend using it.

Also using his p+k is not all that great. As far as I know he can only go mid or low after p+k. That low is telegraphed and he's at -4 if I remember right. Plus the low punch does nothing on NH. So the mid is the best option and that will most likely be held. So you'd have to free cancel after the move most of the time even on CH. Someone who can SE and defend well will not be phased by that move or string.

This 1 move does not matter though, Eliot is ridiculous in other areas.

Oh yeah. I will say it again. I know I've said it before and some else (Drdogg maybe?). Eliot has to play doa4 when he's on the offensive. That is his 1 and only major downfall.
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
Meh, I have no problem playing the DOA4 offense with Eliot. Holding is not a issue, but sidestepping will be. However, that's where your mind games come into play. With delaying, and free canceling vs. sidestepping + Holds. Both are vulnerable to grabs.

T

Eliot had enough time to land a guaranteed attack. Or bait a hold for his throw which should grant him more guaranteed damage because of the ceiling. I am not 100% sure if his air throw has that capability. It didn't in 4 so it still may be the same.

I know Eliot's air throw doesn't hit the ceiling, which is retarded >.> but I thought ceiling stuns were guaranteed?
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yea 236f+p is really good, I was just wondering cause how it stands right now,I don't think he has the ability to get anything on the ceiling. His launchers are low launches and they've been that what for as long as I can remember.
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
Yea 236f+p is really good, I was just wondering cause how it stands right now,I don't think he has the ability to get anything on the ceiling. His launchers are low launches and they've been that what for as long as I can remember.

Yeah, his throw launcher doesn't hit ceilings. I would have been able to guaranteed a 66k sit down stun if it did though.. but unfortunately that's not the case..
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Eliot does not have a mid punch expert hold. Not all characters have them like they did in the alpha build. For ex. Kasumi only has a mid kick expert hold and not a mid punch one. Sorry for bringing her up in the Eliot thread.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Eliot does not have a mid punch expert hold. Not all characters have them like they did in the alpha build. For ex. Kasumi only has a mid kick expert hold and not a mid punch one. Sorry for bringing her up in the Eliot thread.
Nah nah I'm pretty sure a lot of people didn't know that so it's cool. Did team ninja explain why some characters don't get expert holds? I'd assume it's because they have their own parries?
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
Eliot does not have a mid punch expert hold. Not all characters have them like they did in the alpha build. For ex. Kasumi only has a mid kick expert hold and not a mid punch one. Sorry for bringing her up in the Eliot thread.

Ah okay, thanks for mentioning that.
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
Yeah, his throw launcher doesn't hit ceilings. I would have been able to guaranteed a 66k sit down stun if it did though.. but unfortunately that's not the case..

does his :6::6::K: even cause sitdown stun anymore. i've seen him do it on vids and it just causes a regular holdable stun now. the only sitdown stun i've seen is his :3::K:,:P:
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
does his :6::6::K: even cause sitdown stun anymore. i've seen him do it on vids and it just causes a regular holdable stun now. the only sitdown stun i've seen is his :3::K:,:P:

EC confirmed that he can cause a double sit down stun with 66k after 3kp. I was hoping that maybe it's that way during all stunned moves, but I'll need to experiment for myself.
 

Allan Paris

Well-Known Member
Eliot's 3 or 6f+k is safe it's a mid kick (-4) it can stuff low wake up kicks when timed correctly. It's best you use it at range. Next to a wall he can get a guaranteed juggle from it. Nothing big, just PPP or PPK, the shit still hurts nonetheless.
 

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Quick question. I know that off the wall most people go ppp or ppk, but why not(speaking from my doa4 rememberance)4ppppp, or 1pppppp, does it drop them before the second wall hit happens, or is there a hit count threshold for wall combos?
 
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