DOA5: New Gameplay Demo Trailer of Ayane and Hitomi

[KoF06]

@KoF Doesn't matter if its an "expert" hold, it's still a 33% chance. Nobody is going to launch you with a low.

Of course it's matter. If it's an expert hold it's 25%

Really I can't understand how we can't be exiting be videos we are seeing. Graphics are goods, many new animation, some new system,muusic is cool...
There are already difference between since video andlast video with Akira.
With all the effort there are doing on the game, I guess we can wait many difference with DoA4 like DoA3 and DoA4 was. In good or bad, we will see after some month.
Why just appreciate like a video, and when we will have the demo, we will make complain on the gameplay.

Performing holds from stun has nothing to do with rock paper scissors. If you're stunned, then means you picked rock, and your opponent picked paper. You lost. Changing your hand to scissors after you already guessed wrong isn't a rule of rock paper scissors. That's just DOA4.

You can guess a throw. If you are in stun, I think it's normal to be in disadvantage. Well we will not start to speaking about the basics of DoA

 

[Raansu]

I'm not arguing two sides of anything. Both statements are true.

An in-stun hold that gives a guaranteed back stun with all the damage associated with it is complete and utter bullshit and you know this. This is what currently appears to be in the game.

Likewise the out of stun parries that give nothing like we have in DOA 4/D are worthless garbage, only good for harassing players with bad habits.

We went from one extreme to the other. That's pretty funny to me, if not entirely sad.

We both know the correct solution is to make them out of stun only, with a guaranteed followup.



Has it ever occured to you that the game fucking sucks, and there is no way you could break it further than DOA 4? Why would you even want to play another game like anything they have released in the past ten years? I mean seriously. Just checking here.

It really doesn't matter if they do it half assed or all the way with the tweaking of the stun system raansu. The damage you can get in stun threshold isn't even enough to matter. Astaroth farts for more damage than the maximum stun threshold of DOA, don't give me that bullshit excuse. I get resets after every throw and combo with him, too. Somehow people manage to get by, he still isn't considered high tier. It's not some never ending loop in that game, and it wouldn't be some never ending loop in DOA either. You just don't feel like dealing with it.

Hell, I'm all for changing the stun system but there are other solutions on top of it! instead of changing the stun system they could tweak the damage revision if thats what was really necessary to make it work. There are a thousand and one shortcuts.

If they do nothing though, the game will continue to suck. So you can advocate for a shitty broken game with the shitty broken system it has now, or you can advocate for a far better game (one that people might actually play, by the way), however broken it still may be, without holds in stun.

But It will be far better.

This isn't fucking SC, and it seems you have forgotten how stuns even work in DoA. All I am saying is if they decide to keep the way stuns work in DoA (which so far they are doing) that they go back and look how 3.1 handled it.

If they left the stun system alone and removed holds out of stuns there would be nothing to stop me from just extending that stun for the rest of your life bar. You're pissed off at doa4 while I mostly ignore doa4 all together. All my conversations revolve around doa3.1 and deep down you know that removing holds completely would destroy the way doa works.

 

[Allan Paris]

@KoF Not everyone is going to like or be excited about the game. As of now for the ones that don't like what they are seeing they have very good legit reasons not to like it. However this version is nothing to get "excited" about, it's already been stated that this version is somewhat like DOA4. You should already know that not to many people are excited about DOA4.

Most people here are about the mechanics of the game, so forgive us for not going ape shit over graphics, animations, music, etc.

Yes, you should be at a disadvantage when you're in a stun, but as it is now in DOA, you are not.

If they left the stun system alone and removed holds out of stuns there would be nothing to stop me from just extending that stun for the rest of your life bar.

You do know that you can't keep extending the stun to someone's life bar is gone even with holds being removed out of stuns, right?

 

[Orange Pork]

If they left the stun system alone and removed holds out of stuns there would be nothing to stop me from just extending that stun for the rest of your life bar.

Yes there is. You can't string together stuns indefinitely. You'll be able to do a set amount of damage, and then your next stun attempt will put them in a juggle state or knock them back. That's even in DOA4.

Edit: I'm 20 minutes late. That means this post is free.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Performing holds from stun has nothing to do with rock paper scissors. If you're stunned, then means you picked rock, and your opponent picked paper. You lost.

It is like rock, paper, scissors except that you're playing with someone that keeps going "No, wait, I actually did ______, not _____!" until they win.

 

[Raansu]

You do know that you can't keep extending the stun to someone's life bar is gone even with holds being removed out of stuns, right?

Yes you can if done correctly. I can easily do it with Hitomi, Jann Lee and Hayate in sparring mode. And even when those situations are not present, do you really want the stun to be extended for 7 or 8 hits till launch then another 7+ hits from the juggle?

Imagine if in DoA3.1 that you couldn't hold throughout the entirety of the wall bounce stun instead of just the initial hit? Again, I am not against having an advantage and having unholdable situations. If I was I wouldn't despise DoA4 and love DoA3.1. Removing holds COMPLETELY from stuns is not the right way to do things though. The formula DoA3.1 had is the right way to handle the stun system.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I think holds mid stuns is quite essential , especially for this game ..
Infact its what makes it very unique ...

Think about it like this ...
every combo can be split into 5 parts ... the stunner , the chain , the launcher and the air combo , the ender ... (all 5 not necessarily included in all combos)

Now if you cant do a hold when your feet are on the ground... then that would make the game extremely dry in a sense that you would always go for the max damage combo EVERY TIME after the SAME HIT CONFIRMS.. and the combos would be repetitive and absolutely boring ... and if you like that sort of thing you might as well go and play soul calibur 5 or sfxt or mvc3...

Now in DOA .. you always have to think of the first 3 parts ... and it gives the opponent 2 chances essentially to react ..
the first being the stunner move ... if they guess wrong ... they need to figure out what your next move is ... are you :
a) going to do a chain A ?
b) going to do chain B ?
c) going to cancle the chain half way ?
d) bait out a reversal hold and go for a garanteed throw ?
e) go for the launcher straight away ?
f) is the launcher a high or a mid ?
g) are you gonna choose not to launch and go for an ender straight away and is the ender a low or a mid ??

the way the game worked is most of the time during that hit stun you get like one guess ... but if you guess wrong you cant really hold anymore ..

the other thing that needs to be considered is that the longer the chain before the launcher, the higher the float after the launcher leading to a longer more damaging air combo and ender... so it goes down to risk-reward ... would you risk a hold and extend the chain for more damage or do the launcher early for minimal float and damage?

this is what makes the game deep .. and makes its system stand out .. you cant always spam the same combo expecting the same results EVERY TIME ...

the other thing to be considered is what happens after the wall bounce.. if this really is going back to the doa3 formula .. that means you get 1 free (unholdable) hit after the wall bounce ... further adding to the mixup ... (in all 3 trailers it seems that the following hit was never countered so I am assuming this is the case).. This leads you to the following situation:
a) you either go for another move that slams them back into the wall and ending the combo
b) going for a launcher that doesnt slam the opponent back giving you a free air combo
c) adding a combo chain before a launcher and mixing it up back to the first situation with the risk of getting held after the 1st hit.. (again from there you just get the 1 chance)

There is ofcourse a limit to how much you stun an opponent on the ground before a launcher. It doesnt go on forever. It would either eventually knock the opponent down or break the combo chain. So you also need to know how much stun you've hit the opponent with ...

Removing mid stun holds completely DESTROYS this mind game and destroys everything unique about the doa fighting system. and it should not be removed in my opinion ...


On a side note there is something bothering me about the flow of the fights .. and I dont know if its just me that noticed this.. (doesnt seem to be mentioned anywhere) ... has anyone noticed that there seems to be a bad transition from when kasumi gets slammed into the wall vs akira then immediately ends up hanging on the ledge ? almost doesnt make sense ... and the same thing happened in this new trailer ... ayane hits hitomi into the metal barrs and then .. she just rolls down to the edge .. I dont really like that ... what do you guys think ?

Another thing I'm thinkig of is that if a fight was done on the edge of a stage and you do a launcher into an air combo .. do you think this animation will happen again and the opponent would hang on the ledge ? or would you get a definite drop like in the old games ? i would hate to see that situation all the time ... I hope there are rules that dictate it ... repitition sucks ...

 

[Matt Ponton]

It is like rock, paper, scissors except that you're playing with someone that keeps going "No, wait, I actually did ______, not _____!" until they win.

That's not necessarily true. It's just multiple fast-paced games of RPS (and even then the options aren't 33% chance). It's not like a player can "guess wrong" then hold after getting hit and thus hold the attack that put him in the stun, he just is "guessing again". The game has "reset", and that's the main problem I have with DOA4 as it's mentally taxing because these "games" don't end until a person is in the air. Even then, you don't get much reward for making it through the gauntlet successfully.

 

[UncleKitchener]

this is what makes the game deep .. and makes its system stand out .. you cant always spam the same combo expecting the same results EVERY TIME ...

I don't know at what level you play other games, but you have tools in different fighters to shutdown things like string spams, y'know, things which these does't have like proper side-stepping, sabakis, moves that properly crush, low parries, you name it.

 

[Allan Paris]

Yes you can if done correctly. I can easily do it with Hitomi, Jann Lee and Hayate in sparring mode. And even when those situations are not present, do you really want the stun to be extended for 7 or 8 hits till launch then another 7+ hits from the juggle?

I know you are not against having an advantage. You can't keep extending the stun, though, unless you have a partition or wall invovled. You'll eventually knock over your opponent or launch/bounce them. Removing holding out of stuns would give us a new game to play and adjust to. You're thinking of how the game is played now, and yes remoivng them would break the game. If the adjustments were made to make this work, I don't think the game would be broken, just different, completely.

I know that they are not going to make that big change in the gameplay. So we have to hope that the holds are treated and handled proprerly. I just know that giving the defender a huge momentum shift from guessing better not go down in DOA 5, we can't take DOA 4 over again.

 

[Raansu]

I know you are not against having an advantage. You can't keep extending the stun, though, unless you have a partition or wall invovled. You'll eventually knock over your opponent or launch/bounce them. Removing holding out of stuns would give us a new game to play and adjust to. You're thinking of how the game is played now, and yes remoivng them would break the game. If the adjustments were made to make this work, I don't think the game would be broken, just different, completely.

I know that they are not going to make that big change in the gameplay. So we have to hope that the holds are treated and handled proprerly. I just know that giving the defender a huge momentum shift from guessing better not go down in DOA 5, we can't take DOA 4 over again.

Removing holds is still not the correct way to go. There are other ways,better ways, to handle the holds and stuns. I think of previous DoA's currently because we have no real solid information of DoA5 other than the videos. And as the videos show, it still uses traditional DoA type stuns. To remove holds completely would destroy the integrity of the stun system, especially with how frequent and how easy it is to get a stun in DoA. Again, the only way I would ever agree to removing the holds from stuns is if they changed the stuns to a stagger system that VF uses which requires you to struggle out of. It's the only way it would work. As it stands, with the current stun system they need to go back and look at doa3.1, take what was done with that correctly and improve on it, its the only way we will ever get a solid doa game without completely destroying what makes doa different from other fighters.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

Looks like DOA on fucking normal life.

And the Cliff hanger KO'ed Hitomi - bleh!

 

[Matt Ponton]

Honestly looks like DOA on smallest. That was like a 10 second round.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I don't know at what level you play other games, but you have tools in different fighters to shutdown things like string spams, y'know, things which these does't have like proper side-stepping, sabakis, moves that properly crush, low parries, you name it.

what you're talking about doesnt apply here ...
we're talking about mid HIT STUN punishes ..

for one thing those are very situational and with limitations ...
in guilty gear you have burst .. only can be done once until you get the meter again ...and a similar mechanic with blazblue with the extra penalty of having less armor for the rest of the round putting you at a huge disadvantage..
such tools are good for a one off .. but against a heavy rush down character they dont solve anything ... and you still end up with the same repetitive combo spam.

in sfxt and sf4 you have nothing ... if you're hit .. you're hit ... and yes it goes on and gets boring ... (ask any player who had to deal with yuns combos in AE)

in ultimate mvc3 you have your x-factor ... another 1 off .. and early activation is a big disadvantage and then you cant do it no more so most of the time u take the combo ... not exactly good .. and combos in that game last forever ... the only punishable mid string combos are air tag combos and even that needs a guess weather the tag is from the right or the left ... and its very rare to see that kind of combo at high level anyway.

side stepping ... does not work if you're in stun in any game .. its preventive prior to the combo but not during ... so you'll still eat your long combo ...

in soul calibur you got nothing as well ... shakable stuns have been drasticly reduced and most stuns now are unshakable ... when you get hit with a stun.. there is literally no answer to a combo that has started .. u have to take it all ... unless the combo itself is flawed (allowing ukemi on the ground) or the air combo is flawed (allowing air control) .. at high level, when you know your max damage with the character you will go for that every time and yes it will be repetitive ... although normal guard impact is gone, even just guard and the new guard impact system dont work during hits .. so basicly there is no answer in soul calibur either ...

I dont know how you rate MK9 but even that game had a counter at the expense of 2 bars ... again you dont always have that luxury and meter is very important in that game ...

DOA makes the best of both worlds ...
as long as the combo is still ground based .. it is punishable (only for one try) ... as the combo gets airborne the combo is no longer punishable ...
and the higher the stun , the higher the launch .. rewarding the risk you take and allowing a better combo ... this makes perfect sense and is far more logical and creative .. and prevents the match from being just a simple hit confirm into combo everytime ... it also gives a feel of realism in a way, if you're getting battered u wont just stand there ... you'll acctually try and make a come back. but if someone smacks you into a wall or in the air (although you wont float as much lol ) .. you cant do much about that ...

i dont want to see the same combo OVER AND OVER AND OVER ... it just wouldnt be doa anymore ... and would just be a dry game like every other generic fighter out there ...

even vf has shakable stuns on the ground ...even though that keeps you in the defensive most of the time it still resets the situation (at the expense of breaking your stick) .. but once you're launched you cant do anything.

I would hate to see this game get reduced to the lameness of other games in terms of how combos work ... it just wouldnt be DOA ... just like sc5 feels so foreign without "meterless" guard impact and shakable stuns from previous soul caliburs.

so what ? you want the game to turn into some crap like say .. leifangs ub+P stun .. garanteeing a PP, PP>PK and then PP>PK in the air ? a 12 hit combo EVERY TIME ? really ?! that would make the game just pathetic ... and just fishing for those single hit stuns would not make it better but scrubbier ... is that what you want ? not being able to punish something as stupid and as easily readable as that ? EVERY TIME ?!

no thank you .. I would much rather have the current system ...

 

[Relius Starkiller]

Honestly looks like DOA on smallest. That was like a 10 second round.

Hmm, yeah I think your right. In the OXM interview he talked about how long the matches could potentially be (Knock them off a cliff and its not over, hit them with a power blow and its still not over ect). However I'm not sure if he was referencing the amount of punishment you could take or how devastating the attacks looked - to the thought that "Wow, he just fell off a cliff it should be over!".

Probably nothing to pitch a bitch fit over, damage can be adjusted forever and a day.

You guys talk about this, I'm going to go hold another tournament now that I've come out of my Mass Effect funk.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Well I could see the merit in why they would opt for higher damaging rounds, as putting up a trailer in 30fps 720p of a full match could get costly on bandwidth and storage space. So i think they went with higher damage just to get the length of the video down. It's possible they also took multiple matches and just gave the shortest rounds - splicing them together.

 

[Raansu]

That part also did cut in mid match...so who knows how much damage had already been done.

 

[Arnell Long]

Amen Orange Pork^^^

 

[x Sypher x]

I say don't remove holds from stun, BUT to a certain extent. I think if you get stunned you only get ONE chance to guess correctly on what will come next, and if you guess wrong then you're pretty much fucked. In general I think that would work rather decently IF they can find a way to do that. And then of course you have your unholdables, 2-in-1's, 3-in-1's, true combos, wall bounce, certain stuns that won't allow you to hold for "x" amount of frame's, whatever.

 

[Rikuto]

This isn't fucking SC, and it seems you have forgotten how stuns even work in DoA. All I am saying is if they decide to keep the way stuns work in DoA (which so far they are doing) that they go back and look how 3.1 handled it.

If they left the stun system alone and removed holds out of stuns there would be nothing to stop me from just extending that stun for the rest of your life bar. You're pissed off at doa4 while I mostly ignore doa4 all together. All my conversations revolve around doa3.1 and deep down you know that removing holds completely would destroy the way doa works.

1. You're right, this isn't SC. SC is actually a competitive game people want to play. Last time I checked, DOA was not.

2. If stuns were changed to the way 3.1 handled them with a lighter threshold like you are suggesting, the game would be able to fully support stuns without holds because the stun threshold damage wouldn't be relevant. This is why your argument is a fallacy. Your only applying your own logic when it caters to your preference on the hold situation, but you're ignoring that same application to mine.

3. Yes, there would be something to stop me from extending the stun to the end of your lifebar. It's called the stun threshold. It only takes so many hits before a stun breaks, I know exactly how it works in DOA. Guess what? Other fighters do this too. DOA isn't using some special formula that makes it 100% reliant on the hold system to work, sorry. That's YOU, not the game.

4. One hit in a combo from astaroth can deal more damage than the entirety of the stun threshold in DOA, and it does not break that game. We have similar high damage combos coming out of Bass in 3.1, so please explain to me how and why this would break the game in DOA 5.

5. Seriously, give me an example of this magical "never ending loop" you keep talking about. I would like to see a situation that cannot be either slow escaped or simply knocked out of from stun threshold break.