Replay Rewind 6/14/2022 Logical Game Design for Team Ninja #15 Helena & Jann Lee | Dead or Alive 6

Dragon kick startup is like 25 frames with only 6 frames being active....its extremely slow. Its recovery time is also like 70-80 frames. I don't understand how you find that move to be broken when a sloth could react to it given how long its start up frames are.
@KasumiLover I'll try to be brief because I'm done trying to change people's minds.
1) It is luck based because walls are everywhere. You don't really feel like you're making a difference by positioning yourself. Even if you avoid the danger zone you can still be knocked into a regular wall and take slightly less damage from it.

2) Hi counter holds are based on luck because most of the time when I get it is by accident. If the only way we could get hi counter damage is with a specific button (if it can only be done intentionally), then it's skill based.

3) The Jann Lee didn't know that I would throw. Obviously if someone knows something they will adjust their gameplan. You missed the point or are ignoring it.
If you "know when you're foe will strike", get a greatest online and post the vid like my "From Supreme to Flawless" video that I posted with Ein in DOA4. lol

4) Knowledge is a type of skill. That's why we look at frame data. We put in the work to obtain that knowledge.

5) I don't mind if Jann Lee/Honoka only lose meter when it actually connects. But no one should ever just have a from standing, fairly quick unblockable. Just give it to everyone then so I can abuse it with Nyotengu. lol

6) Higher launch height is irrelevant in this game because I end up doing the same combo over and over regardless. There's no stark contrast as there was with choosing between a power launcher after the critical burst or regular launcher after a critical burst. Guaranteed damage off counter hit is fine. But like, spamming Nyotengu's H+K and doing P+K to go into the stance, PP, PPP, close hit 46P+K gets really old. It's too rewarding for something that happens so fast without much buildup.

If he had a little more health I still would have won. It just wasn't the best example of a hi counter throw drastically putting the match in my favor. There's no "obviously" baiting a hold. I ElectrifiedMann in ranked all the time. So don't say "obvious". We can all turn off autopilot to do something that's unexpected. Also, someone tell ElectrifiedMann to unblock me. He's a child.
1) That danger zone isn't luck based, if you're struck near that wall it will be triggered. The solution is shallow, the walls are far off from the starting point giving you more than enough time to watch your surroundings. Guaranteed juggles from wall hits are fair.

2) HI counter holds are NOT luck based. If you time the hold JUST before the attack hits you, it'll deal increased damage rewarding more precise hold time if you correctly predict the foe's move and hold it just as the attack is about to hit you. The solution again is shallow. Offensive holds do not require much thought, if you're roughly +5 you can consistently get a hi counter OH, they can be used easily in these situations since they beat both strikes and act as throws that only a pure throw can beat besides a crush.

3) No its not, the Jann is recklessly holding which leaves him open to a throw, if he didn't throw out a hold and chose to instead wait you out you would have been at a disadvantage from the missed throw. Holding isn't something you MUST do, only if you know what your foe will do or if you want to risk a guess. The solution is strange, it's actually possible to know when your foe will strike, this is why expert holds, holds outside of stun, parries etc. are used by smart players who can accurately read and react to what their opponent will do. The player "ought not" to hold when they know they're being baited to hold or hold when they don't know what is coming.

4. Throwing unsafe moves is quite easy if you know the frames, this doesn't take much skill. Throwing an OH does take skill which is the only thing I agree with since it requires a read. Holding in stun isn't necessary if you know the foe is baiting a throw. Holding outside of stun is necessary if you have the proper holds to answer your foe's pressure in situations when a strike isn't going to save you when you're at a disadvantage.

5) Dragon kick is NOT broken. It's a long range high that has start up and can easily be ducked, crushed by a crouching mid or high, and it can easily be held for a evade hold punish. Bass and Zack's unblockables require skill to use since they're more situational and they're not as big a part of their game plan. Solution is again strange. That's a waste of meter if it gets crushed or ducked. If running would need to be required it's start up would have to be shortened making it stronger. And why would a strike be hi counter throw punishable? In that same breath, all unsafe moves or moves that are ducked or avoided would require the same treatment...

6) So... basically you want no opportunities for guaranteed damage from a successful stun or counter? You're really asking for a more difficult time to fight, especially since Nyotengu is already slow. The launch wasn't that high either. The solution is silly, launchers can be held. Higher launch height is given from fatal stuns anyway. They don't need moves to use in stun when they have holds and or expert holds to easily shut you down including a break hold with meter.

The throw won't you the match since he already had low health and he held when you were obviously baiting a hold.

Details

Jun 15, 2022 at 2:55 AM
Posted by NyaMiyamaFighter
Think of me as a freelance KT employee. Whether they want my help or not I’m donating my services and EXPERTICE.
Click "SHOW MORE" to expand the description of this video
Newest DOA7 idea: Read the comments section

Video Texts:
PROBLEM
Now Helena will lose 10% of her life bar from
the LUCK-based danger zone and another 5%
from my GUARANTEED follow up off of it.
SOLUTION
1. There are 4 explosive danger zones, one on
every side of this stage. Lower it to 2 so players
can avoid them and be rewarded for paying
attention to their surroundings.
2. The normal walls also act like mini explosive
danger zones. We can't focus on fighting in toxic
environments like this. Change the wall
mechanics to be more like DOA4 and 2U.
We should not get guaranteed juggles from
wall hits. Its TOO EASY and annoying.

PROBLEM
This hi counter hold combo takes 20% of Nyotengu's
life bar. A lucky guess should never punish
someone so harshly.
SOLUTION
90% of hi counter holds are unintentional. Meaning
they are luck-based. Remove "hi counter" and
"counter" damage multipliers from normal holds
and only apply them to offensive holds.
Offensive holds require more thought behind them.

PROBLEM
Now that Jann Lee is stunned it's a no brainer for
Nyotengu to use a throw for 1.5x damage. Jann Lee
MUST hold to avoid being launched and juggled.
This is more of a cheap strategy than a skillful one.
SOLUTION
Reward players when they throw an opponent who is
doing something they OUGHT NOT do rather than
punishing players for only trying to defend themselves.
There is no shame in being stunned because it's
impossible to know when your opponent will attack.
Hi counter throw damage should come into play:
-During a throw punish. Punishing unsafe moves is skill.
-When throwing an offensive hold. Using a throw against
Leifang when you know she will use an offensive hold
against you is a skillful play.
-When someone holds in neutral and gets thrown.
Players are taking a risk when they hold outside of stun.
Holding outside of stun is unnecessary. Holding inside
of stun shouldn't be as punishable because it IS NECESSARY.

PROBLEM
Dragon Kick is broken and not fun to fight against.
Bass and Zack's unblockables are not good because???
SOLUTION
Dragon Kick should only be unblockable if Jann lee/Honoka
spend 1 bar of meter. It will be automatic.
OR
Running must be required to use Dragon Kick.

If evaded, that of course means Honoka/Jann Lee are
susceptible to a hi counter throw during recovery frames.

PROBLEM
Such a high launch after only ONE STUN. Is this
even a fighting game? I don't want to juggle in
a fighting game, I want to FIGHT in a fighting game.
SOLUTION
One stun should not grant you height off a launcher.
The requirement should be 2-3 stuns minimum.
The fun of fighting is when we predict our opponent's
next move, not when we constantly attack them while they
have NO MOVES to use. We may as well not compete
against others at all.
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