Dead or Alive's place in the modern fg market

[Awesmic]

There is nothing average about Underx. Trust me on that.

My thoughts exactly.

The real reason UnderX is acting this way is because he's (still) so dad-gummed salty about there being no character customization. Some time ago he brought the subject up here and in other DOA forums-- even to the point of making it first priority over making the gameplay solid.

In the end, he labeled us all elitist assholes just because we didn't agree to making that first priority (including me). Even worse, he didn't just act that way here, but in more casual sites like DOAW. And since he's not getting his way, he's on this wild Twitter propaganda to make sure we're all perceived as the "bad guys". But at this point, hardly anyone's stupid enough to believe what he says.

BTW, this is coming from someone who's usually compassionate towards such people.

 

[Matt Ponton]

In the end, he labeled us all elitist assholes just because we didn't agree to making that first priority (including me). Even worse, he didn't just act that way here, but in more casual sites like DOAW. And since he's not getting his way, he's on this wild Twitter propaganda to make sure we're all perceived as the "bad guys".

Not a good feeling when someone attacks you for stating an opinion and being called an 'elitist asshole', is it?

 

[LunaKage]

I freaking love this Rikuto guy, his House avatar reflects him perfectly.

But on the topic of changing the game or not:
I'm not a competitive DOA player(yet), but I've been a long time fan since I played DOA2 for the dreamcast. I love the characters, the sex appeal, all that hokey casual player shit, because when I got into DOA, I was a casual. Hell I loved the series so much I bought DOA4 a full 6 months before I even purchased a 360 to play it on. However despite my love for the series, as I got older I learned the value of combos, I learned what made a good competitive fighting game.

Now this happened after a long break from DOA, so shortly after I found out how to play games like Soul Calibur and Tekken, I attemped to go back to DOA4, and suddenly I realized so much about the game that just made me rage, mostly, the holding out of stun and such, as a guy who's main thing became combos, this particular thing aggrivated me to no end.

What was the point of that story? Well basically I'm saying that when I was playing the game as a casual player, the things that made DOA different from any other fighting game were invisible to me, Soul Calibur was just DOA with weapons, Tekken was just DOA without bikinis etc. It wasn't until I became aware to the competitive aspect of the genre that I even noticed the differences.

I dunno though, maybe that's just me. @w@

 

[Matt Ponton]

Nah, it's not just you.

I know that when watching DOA4 matches I would be like "wow, they really do bounce a lot.", but when playing the game competitively I wouldn't even notice them.

Similar principle.

 

[Awesmic]

Not a good feeling when someone attacks you for stating an opinion and being called an 'elitist asshole', is it?

No.

 

[LunaKage]

Nah, it's not just you.

I know that when watching DOA4 matches I would be like "wow, they really do bounce a lot.", but when playing the game competitively I wouldn't even notice them.

Similar principle.

Right, I'm the same way in that regard too lol

 

[page]

Thankfully that type is not the majority, and I put average in quotes because I think that's how they see themselves, but it's not necessarily what they represent: they're certainly not a majority. I have no doubt that, barring some monstrous blunder, Team Ninja will reach their goal of 1 million sales, and primarily on the backs of players who wouldn't know about or really care about substantial changes made to the game in order to better accommodate competitive players.

Or at least that's how it should be, but when Team Ninja starts to advertise the game based on that type of change they give a convenient outlet to the type of person who wants to moan about how the games are being changed to please people who are, to their mind, probably not even "true" Dead or Alive fans. That sort of environment didn't exist even 5 years ago.

The other thing is that I can totally see their point and even agree with them, but not in such a naive manner. I can acknowledge that the game is being changed in significant ways, and that maybe those changes will effect how it feels as a Dead or Alive game, but I also know that without those changes it will not have a competitive life. The difference is that I'm willing to accept that--with no insult meant to people who are only interested in Dead or Alive 5 as a competitive game. I'm also willing to accept a Dead or Alive game that actually doesn't suck balls at high level play. The only thing I dread is a kind of watered-down game full of wishy-washy concessions to both sides, but that's a worst case scenario.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

because an attacker can lose 40%+ of their life by throwing out a basic jab.

Izuna Drop reference

That was a good read, it appears that you know your shit with fighting games, well written, man I'm so jelly of your English.

I think it's hard for any DOA player that skipped the first DOA of the series (the majority, which includes me), the only one that had no holds during stun to imagine a DOA without holds during stuns. I always thought that being able to reverse a combo made DOA unique in its genre, but if you really think about it more objectively, the guessing amount actually makes it... uniquely broken lol.

 

[d3v]

I dunno though, maybe that's just me. @w@

Nope, it's not just you. In general, the fine differences between games aren't immediately evident to casual players.

 

[Mailifang]

Great article.Finally someone who doesn't have a total biased opinion. I myself have had the luxury to play the first DOA game at an actual arcade back in 96. I then bought the game almost a year later for the Sega Saturn. Ever since then I have bought and own almost every DOA game released.Even the DOAXVB games.I even bought the crappy one on the PSP.

Why you ask? Its because I'm a fan of the series. But I I do love fighting games as a whole. I consider myself a "competitive casual" fighting game player overall. I know a few of you are probably loling over this statement. But I've played DOA for years. I know the gameplay, the mind game games,the technicalities. I played alot of DOAU and DOA4 online. I even played against Rikuto and some of the other top DOA players. But its not like they would remember. I play the game well enough to compete but not good enough to go out an win major tournaments.I won a few locals but that's about it.

I can relate to both the casual side and the competitive side. Only the competitive side is the more vocal when it comes to the game as a game. Sadly DOA is one of those games that if you have basic fighting game knowledge ,common sense and a ability to guess whats coming you can hold your own even with players that are more technically proficient. And that's what makes DOA fun to play at any level. Your not gonna play victim to 100% juggle combo-into- wall combo like in Tekken 6. Nor is your character gonna get lit up with 100+ hit combo a la UMvC3 just for screwing up once.Granted you will get lit up in DOA but you always have that chance of turning things around.This is what keeps DOA players in general playing the game.

Myself being a female player, the DOA series is pretty much the only series where I see a large number of competitive female players. The game is fun,flashy, and it isn't weighed down with lots of game play mechanics. I'm sure this is why the series isn't taken seriously and why the DOA community is so split. And its been this way since DOAU came out. I used to be a member over at DOAcentral. I was more of lurker than poster. But that was because of all the drama between the casual and hardcore players.Then their was beef even amongst the competitive players.

I've been apart of numerous fighting game communities and most if not all have this "Us" and "Them". type of community. "Us" represents the competitive and pro players and they refer to everyone else as "Them". Mainly the casuals,wannabe's,and online players.The DOA community back in the day was the same way. The FGC in general is not a very welcoming or forgiving scene to get into. In order to be accepted into the scene or a respective FG community you have to::

* Kiss a lot of butt or as they say come into a respective community being humble. Nothing pisses off competitive players more than a young up and comer that talks a lot junk. They will in turn attempt to "break you" and then you get laughed out the respective community and give up or you.....

*Gain respect by raising your game. If well known players notice you can handle the BS that being in community doesn't get to you and you get better to the point that you hold your own,then your accepted.

* Or you just play a lot to the point your just recognized by the community because your name is every where.

I agree with Page.DOA should just be what it is. You can call it brand identity or product integrity. Coke is still Coke and Disney still puts out Animated movies that are Disney-esque. I'm not saying that DOA cannot be improved or have changes. All I'm saying is that their shouldn't be any drastic changes to the core game play of the series. Who cares what the rest of the competitive FGC thinks. Like Page said their are other games out there. If you want to play more technical based fighting games.I play those other games as well. I play Tekken, VF5 FS, KOF13, and even a little SSF AE.

I think the problem with most fighting game communities is that they sometimes need to stop taking themselves so seriously. The hardcore competitive players need to start welcoming new players just for the fact that they love playing the game. Terms like "scrub" and discrimination within the FGC needs to stop. I know that high level players do get hated on because they play the game at a level casual players don't. I can relate because I play certain fighting games at a level that many around my area are not as good or care enough to be good at. I get hate msg's on PSN from time to time as well lol. But I don't hold that against the FGC as a whole. Your gonna play against all types of players and people.Some handle losing losing better than others. And some are obnoxious winners.

Sorry for my rambling.Its like hella late and my sugar rush is almost over.

 

[Rikuto]

You're right... I don't remember you at all :/

Glad you took the time for such a lengthy response though.

 

[Tones]

It's lengthy but there is quality within it.

The reasons for that are pretty obvious: the competitive player just isn't enough of a market force to make up the difference when more casual players don't get what they want.

Don't forget about the producers/investors when making points like that. If you're talking marketing you should also mention something about facebook.

I think what Team Ninja are doing well (iirc the MK guys did something simular) this time around is recognizing the community as an asset and utilizing it. For years now Team Ninja has been making contact with community members and it's all to the build up DOAD and DOA5. The seed was planted a long time ago and they have been nurturing it. Let's just see how affective it turns out.

I wonder how the casual scene is reaction to whats been happening.

Myself being a female player, the DOA series is pretty much the only series where I see a large number of competitive female players. The game is fun,flashy, and it isn't weighed down with lots of game play mechanics. I'm sure this is why the series isn't taken seriously and why the DOA community is so split. And its been this way since DOAU came out. I used to be a member over at DOAcentral. I was more of lurker than poster. But that was because of all the drama between the casual and hardcore players.Then their was beef even amongst the competitive players.

High level DOA players have personality. People

You say DOA should be what it is but a scrub is the elephant in the room when it comes to a competitive forum, which then boils down to... well, it's the internet. The Australian fighting community is actually really open to new comers, we know we ain't shit so we welcome and respect someone if they pick up which one's game is, even for just a few rounds.

 

[Mailifang]

You're right... I don't remember you at all :/

Glad you took the time for such a lengthy response though.

You're Welcome. I remember you though. I lurked enough around the DOAC to realize you were one the most opinionated, outspoken, yet really good players. One day on DOAU I noticed you had a room up so I joined. I used Lei Fang and you used Jann Lee. I got a perfect on you in the first round then you beat the crap out of me the other rounds and won the match.The reason why I remember the the match so fondly is because it was first time playing someone with "street cred". Someone who is known in the community. That match gave me confidence that I can hold my own with good players. Sure it was on online play but it was a confidence booster nonetheless.

After that match I really started playing DOA competitively and payed attention to the competitive scene.

 

[Rikuto]

Sounds legit. I dont have a distinct memory of it but i did use jann lee quite a bit back then so it fits the bill. also was pretty loudmouthed. youth is fun. i doubt i had much in the way of street cred, but i was definitely fighting for it back then.