DOA5 Terminology..

[CyberEvil]

You obviously haven't read my posts, or simply didn't understand them, so let me break it down for you this way:

How do people currently learn the terminology in this or any other community? They ask someone, watch a video, or pick it up in context.

How will people learn this "new" terminology? They'll ask someone, watch a video, or pick it up in context.

Does any of that register anything with you? Minor epiphany? No? Nothing? My point is that the entire idea is redundant. Now go away and stop butchering the English language.

 

[Matt Ponton]

There are very few terms that we use that people couldn't figure out. A lot of them come directly from other fighters and you don't hear people crying about theirs being too complicated. We have what is arguably the most basic mainstream 3D fighter and you want to tell me it's too confusing? Get the fuck outta here. Name me one confusing term we frequently use. Just one.

And it's "cowabunga."

Dude.

Honestly, one of the most confusing terms we used were "#-in-1s" as these meant something completely different in 2D fighters and gave those players trouble coming in.

Slow Escape was another one but luckily it's abbreviation was the same as what people would have called it "Struggle" "Struggle Escape" "Struggling" "SE". so yeah.

 

[CyberEvil]

Honestly, one of the most confusing terms we used were "#-in-1s" as these meant something completely different in 2D fighters and gave those players trouble coming in.

Slow Escape was another one but luckily it's abbreviation was the same as what people would have called it "Struggle" "Struggle Escape" "Struggling" "SE". so yeah.

There are plenty of things we say that could be confusing. My whole point, which I made decidedly clearer in my last post, is that this whole idea is predicated on the fact that people will go to this new reference instead of any of the other ones. It's self-defeating.

EDIT: Sorwah, this "Ignore" function is priceless.

 

[DriftSlave]

So you honestly believe that, good luck. If you want to be SRK about it then just say so....I'll just block you...It'll solve this minor inconvenience.
This thread is about making terms clear to "everyone", so this kind of BS would not occur but I guess that went over your head. Thats why Emperor Cow created this thread in the first place....oh well.

 

[x Sypher x]

Um yeah...HELLO. Even if there was any confusion I'm sure EC would be smart enough to do one of the following, or both:

1) Give an explanation/demonstration to what each term means in relation to DOA
and/or
2) Compare/Contrast the term with another similar term from "X" fighter that people may be familiar with so they can gain a better understanding.

So instead of going "HUH?" hopefully the person will instead say "Oooh that's what it means" OR "Oooh I get it, it's kinda like this or that thing."

So please just quit the bickering CE, I think it's a good idea. And with the proper resources and help from our experts I'm sure it will turn out fine.

Moving on...

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Honestly, one of the most confusing terms we used were "#-in-1s" as these meant something completely different in 2D fighters and gave those players trouble coming in..

Im glad you mentioned this because this is one segment I was considering to add in HOLDS video ...

Natural Combo/2in1/3in1/4in1 etc .. an example of this would be say... hitomis ?
or hayates ? or ayanes ? (the 2nd hits are unholdable if the 1st connects on hit or block)

the other term to consider with a similar kind of properties is :

True Combo/True String.. which is basicly the same only made from a string of moves ..
for example hitomi's (on hit and block) ... and (on hit only)
am I right ?

Um yeah...HELLO. Even if there was any confusion I'm sure EC would be smart enough to do one of the following, or both:

1) Give an explanation/demonstration to what each term means in relation to DOA
and/or
2) Compare/Contrast the term with another similar term from "X" fighter that people may be familiar with so they can gain a better understanding

Im doing my best to write up a definition + video demonstration of every term I introduce so that even the least knowlegable of players would manage to pick up on the following topics .. hopefully

 

[Matt Ponton]

Im glad you mentioned this because this is one segment I was considering to add in HOLDS video ...

Natural Combo/2in1/3in1/4in1 etc .. an example of this would be say... hitomis ?
or hayates ? or ayanes ? (the 2nd hits are unholdable if the 1st connects on hit or block)

the other term to consider with a similar kind of properties is :

True Combo/True String.. which is basicly the same only made from a string of moves ..
for example hitomi's (on hit and block) ... and (on hit only)
am I right ?



Im doing my best to write up a definition + video demonstration of every term I introduce so that even the least knowlegable of players would manage to pick up on the following topics .. hopefully

Natural Combos and True combo strings are really one in the same as far as I grew up on.

For example, we referenced Gen Fu's 3.1 as a 2-in-1 on the final two, and a 3-in-1 if the first attack hit on crouching.

I've been personally trying to use the term "3 hit natural combo" instead of "3-in-1" to prevent confusion to Street Fighter players.

I personally don't consider Hitomi's DOA5 a 2-in-1 because I personally consider it a single attack command.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Natural Combos and True combo strings are really one in the same as far as I grew up on.

For example, we referenced Gen Fu's 3.1 as a 2-in-1 on the final two, and a 3-in-1 if the first attack hit on crouching.

I've been personally trying to use the term "3 hit natural combo" instead of "3-in-1" to prevent confusion to Street Fighter players.

I personally don't consider Hitomi's DOA5 a 2-in-1 because I personally consider it a single attack command.

so in that sense you would consider for example moves like the ones i mentioned in the previous examples (hitomi's for example) as just single moves that hit twice .. ?

but a string like hitomi's a 2 hit natural combo (or 2 in 1 ?) ? and with the 3rd hit a 3 hit hatural combo (or 3 in 1?) (since the stun in a way launches the feet off the ground and the followup cant be held) just like the example you gave with genfu in a way

and a lets say hitomi's standing a true string ? since it cant be held both on block and on hit even though your feet are on the ground ? (kinda like how when you cant reversal a true block string in the sf world but on hit it would combo )

Am I on the right track here ? .. just to make sure I get the descriptions right ..
(sorry .. I sadly happen to be an SF minded person to a degree.. im detoxing from that game .. lol )

on that note .. do you have any more natural combo or true combo examples from the alpha demo ?
that would be really helpful

 

[DriftSlave]

Emperor Cow, do you guys use the term "Jail"? The Tekken Term for a string that once blocked you can't duck during the string.

Regarding Natural Combos, would consider mentioning Natural Counter Hit Combos as well Frame Traps? Well mostly because SFIV players used frame traps mostly beat crouch tech, while in DOA that's not the case...so basically to compare and contrast the differences.

Im sorry if it seems like Im nagging but honestly I've seen too many guides/tutorials that don't help new players because they don't explain the basics such as notation or general terms first...because most figure you had played at least 1 fighting game before so you have something to relate to but that is not always the case...DOA maybe someones first game and you kinda have to explain it from a total noob perspective. With that said, it may suck to explain everything(especially when you know a good % of viewers know this already) but that's the difference between a good tutorial/guide to an OK one.

A tip and not sure if this was mentioned already but if you had not thought of it yet, you could just mention this to the viewers to skip sections or whole videos to avoid them being bored or to streamline it for themselves as someone maybe just looking up 1 specific term. so just bullet every term in the YT description with a link to the time when it starts....this would also make your guide look more sophisticated...lolz

 

[Matt Ponton]

on that note .. do you have any more natural combo or true combo examples from the alpha demo ?
that would be really helpful

No, if you find them post them in the DOA5a system thread as I haven't had much time to actually break down the move list myself.

But yes, I personally consider a natural combo to be a combo from two or more button inputs that can't be held after an initial button input.

But that's me, and others may see it differently. It's just to me I don't think "a single attack (P+K) is a 2 hit natural combo" as a combo would imply different moves or a string of inputs, not a single command.

 

[DriftSlave]

@Mr. Wah, That is the general definition of a NC so your right, but in 3D fighters the term also applies to single input moves...this is used in SC and VF as well....Example from SCV would be Natsu's K2...it's not a convention NC but still counts as an NC as the following hit is guaranteed for the most part. However this can cause abit of confusion because then the Difference between a NC string and a NC will become vague.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

No, if you find them post them in the DOA5a system thread as I haven't had much time to actually break down the move list myself.

But yes, I personally consider a natural combo to be a combo from two or more button inputs that can't be held after an initial button input.

But that's me, and others may see it differently. It's just to me I don't think "a single attack (P+K) is a 2 hit natural combo" as a combo would imply different moves or a string of inputs, not a single command.

got it .. thx ..
if I find anything along the way I'll post it ..

 

[Arliss]

H-Cancel and Hold Cancel is the same thing and it doesn't sound right. Even though that may be what the action is.

I personally don't like and I would really like it if they brought back . Free Canceling sounds great and it flows off the tongue.

String Canceling or Cancel doesn't flow either.

What are some other terms you'd like to use? This one seems to be a little hard for everyone to come to something. Lets just come back to this one.

Yeah that confused the hell outta me when i started playing the demo. It took a few minutes to figure out why exactly there was a popping up in the first place.and it's green of all things. lol just threw me off a lil bit. but i got it.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

well heres a confusing dilema ..
i was fishing for more natural combos ... and well .. lol ..

what would you consider hayabusa's .. or ? its not really a launcher .. lol and the first hit makes the opponent fall smack on their face ... so... lol

this has nothing to do with my vid .. but Im just curious ..

technicly it does fit the Natural combo description but on the other hand your feet ar off the ground after the first hit so .. umm what the hell do u call it ? lol

then theres something like ayanes ... but the 1st hit is a launcher ... so ... lol ...

 

[SkatanMilla]

Calabunga...a word with no general meaning....but the Ninja Turtles loved using it.

Calabunga

I've lost more faith in humanity

 

[Matt Ponton]

In America, it's "Cowabunga" for what the TMNT said.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cowabunga

 

[PhoenixVFIRE]

I've lost more faith in humanity

You can lose some more faith, I never watched TMNT all that much. While I have heard of the phrase "Cowabunga", the fact that he used an L instead of a W, I couldn't care less, I knew exactly what he meant.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Natural Combos and True combo strings are really one in the same as far as I grew up on.

For example, we referenced Gen Fu's 3.1 as a 2-in-1 on the final two, and a 3-in-1 if the first attack hit on crouching.

I've been personally trying to use the term "3 hit natural combo" instead of "3-in-1" to prevent confusion to Street Fighter players.

I personally don't consider Hitomi's DOA5 a 2-in-1 because I personally consider it a single attack command.

Im personaly having trouble wording this out ...
especially coming from a street fighter background ... where a TRUE string would be a string which you cannot reversal after the first hit connects on BLOCK ...
in the DOA sense I see the same idea when i look at hitomi's for example ...
that to me is a TRUE BLOCK STRING .. as I cannot hold after the first P connects on a BLOCKING opponent. I would also like to use this term because if you block the first hit you cannot even crouch until the 2nd punch is done .. hence .. being a TRUE BLOCK STRING

on the other hand .. because you can hold in stun and that concept is quite unique to DOA ... i would refer to hitomi's on HIT .. or her on HIT as a NATURAL COMBO or a 2in1 /3in1 etc.. since after the 1st HIT connects the following hit cannot be held.

I think this distinction makes a whole lot of sense to me.. and I think this is the approach that I will take when explaining these in the HOLDS video ..

what do you think ?