Guaranteed Damage!

[virtuaPAI]

Ok, so I am in the lab testing some things out, and I am finding that if you set the computer to fastest stagger escape and/or fastest Critical hold, the CPU can escape out of many setups. However, when I set the computer to fast stagger escape and/or fast critical hold, the CPU can no longer escape out of these particular set ups. So here is my question, It is not Humanly possible to Stagger escape at fastest timing, and it is not practical to hold at fastest timings. So should we consider fast timing settings the true setting to determine if something is guaranteed?

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Ok, so I am in the lab testing some things out, and I am finding that if you set the computer to fastest stagger escape and/or fastest Critical hold, the CPU can escape out of many setups. However, when I set the computer to fast stagger escape and/or fast critical hold, the CPU can no longer escape out of these particular set ups. So here is my question, It is not Humanly possible to Stagger escape at fastest timing, and it is not practical to hold at fastest timings. So should we consider fast timing settings the true setting to determine if something is guaranteed?

I would say scientifically no its still considered Not guaranteed ...
but practically ... i would say ... yes, I suppose ... you you can say the move is ... "Almost guaranteed ".. lol

 

[virtuaPAI]

Maybe call it Guaranteed Combo/juggle Attempt?

 

[Keylay]

That is also my assumption. I've been doing combos that the CPU can stagger escape on fastest but not on fast. I don't think most people will be able to stagger escape the fastest. You'd have to start stagger escaping as fast as possible right after you get hit.

 

[virtuaPAI]

That is what I was saying. You would have to SE so quickly during the initial frames of the stun to even get fastest timing, which is not possible, because you have to first perceive that you are stunned. Also, fastest critical holds would require just frame timing to escape the stun.

 

[DR2K]

Yeah my offense was especially resticted against fast stagger/hold, but it's pretty difficult to fast stagger/hold like the AI can.

 

[Einzelkind]

You could use a star system like they use in statistics to express the probablity of error. * for almost guaranteed, ** for "scientifically" guaranteed.

 

[Raansu]

Guaranteed damage is bonkers in this game.

Zack 6f+p is +13 and gives him guaranteed pp which can then be mixed up into is mid kick or low kicks or another throw.

Hitomi's 6f+p which does practically the same animation/setup only gives her +10 and zero follow ups lol...

Jann Lee can get a free 66k or 9k off of f+k sit down but Hitomi you can slow escape her sit downs easily unless 8k hits on a hi-counter hit and her natural combos only work on counter hit.

Seems like half the cast can play DoA5 and the other half cant. Hitomi feels like she is stuck in DoA4 still. Hell she actually lost stuff. DoA4 6f+p on hi-counter throw get her an unblockable 46p. In 5? She doesn't get anything from it even on hi-counter throw aside from being +10 for more 50/50 mixups. 4ppp guard break near a wall in 4 gave an umblockable 9k. In 5? Nope... Her low sweeps are nice though as they don't trip and gives her a nice +5 stun and 3k is decent.

*sigh* lol

 

[TBT -Zephina]

Hi there virtuaPAI. I noticed you in the stream earlier while i was sleeping hehe. I'm still adjusting to the whole "almost" guaranteed damage/combos etc. I look at it as mind games since u can either delay an attack or wait and bait and throw them out of their counter attempt.

I haven't really seen anyone countering at the fastest time possible. It's been more so fast than anything. I'll lab today with setting being on fast and see how things go from there in actual matches. Still very new to this as I haven't played DOA since like the 1st or 2nd one.

 

[Goro Hazuki]

You could use a star system like they use in statistics to express the probablity of error. * for almost guaranteed, ** for "scientifically" guaranteed.

I actually like this. I think I will use similar notations in my combo threads if other members are ok with it. It's a good distinction that shows the depth of the game.
Also, gives opposing characters something to gun for (fast escaping) if they know what damage can be done if they don't attempt the fastest escape.

 

[virtuaPAI]

Hi there virtuaPAI. I noticed you in the stream earlier while i was sleeping hehe. I'm still adjusting to the whole "almost" guaranteed damage/combos etc. I look at it as mind games since u can either delay an attack or wait and bait and throw them out of their counter attempt.

-I am not talking about your normal Doa Situations. I am talking about situations that would normally be considered guaranteed by human standards, but the computer is able to escape.

SNIP

-I noticed that. Its like they missed the memo. Players want both guaranteed damage and frame advantage, not either or. This whole discussion came about from Playing Tina. Her Advanced mid kick hold against an opponent who's back is at the wall will grant , + or . Now with I can follow up with , + or . However, If the computer does fastest SE/CH it can escape, but if it just do a Fast SE/CH(Human speed), it cannot escape.

 

[grap3fruitman]

That is what I was saying. You would have to SE so quickly during the initial frames of the stun to even get fastest timing, which is not possible, because you have to first perceive that you are stunned.

Well when I play DOA, I'm just mashing buttons like crazy anyway and slow escape instantly!

 

[RhythmikDesigns]

I would also say to test your setups with the slow timing too, because things that I was getting on fast and fastest would be countered on slow. Also make the com reaction hold as well, if your not doing so because if you hit the dummy with an unholdable, it wont hold at all, but the com reaction will on the first frame its able to. This way it kinda simulates someone spamming hold.

 

[Allan Paris]

I was wondering the same thing, VP. After thinking a out it for a while; you can't technically call it guaranteed damage. The fact that there is a possibility for a human to get out of it is the reason. Realistically everyone, hell, the mass majority will not SE at fastest and then hold after it. But I know of a few players who will SE fastest and will block for the most part. But they will hold if they comfortable enough to do so.

So no, I don't believe you can say its guaranteed.

 

[virtuaPAI]

But since the timing is so strict, can it be called a guaranteed Combo/juggle attempt, similar to guaranteed throw attempts in VF lol.

 

[Matt Ponton]

just call it a combo that isn't guaranteed...

 

[DR2K]

"C-c-c-combo breaker!" In betwen the part of the combo that can be escaped should be the termonolgy.

 

[StickyStaines]

I can see where virtualPai is coming from. It's like some unblockables in a few 2D games. It doesn't actually have to be a frame perfect unblockable to be considered unblockable, because while the CPU might be able to block it, a human player finds it way to hard to switch guard in a few frames (especially when you dont know if the low or overhead is coming first).

Technically it's not an unblockable, but practically it is. I don't think you wouldn't call these unblockables, so maybe the same situation applies. I think for it to be "guaranteed" in this sense, it needs to still be guaranteed under almost all times used, even when the opponent is aware of what you are doing. So whats the likelihood of it still being "guaranteed" 1 year down the line?

 

[virtuaPAI]

Didnt ever have to deal with this before, cause the computer options was never this robust, allowing to see possible escapes. As long as my opponent cannot escape...it is guaranteed. Sticky, we will have to see if these combos/juggles will remain unbreakable by human opponents.

 

[Raansu]

Didnt ever have to deal with this before, cause the computer options was never this robust, allowing to see possible escapes. As long as my opponent cannot escape...it is guaranteed. Sticky, we will have to see if these combos/juggles will remain unbreakable by human opponents.

The best way to find out is to use the record function and try to escape yourself. That's how I found out that Hitomi's sit down stuns are useless as you can slow escape all them easily.

 

[Berzerk!]

What's your preferred method if slow escape Raansu?
Also, I believe the game calls it Stagger Escape now which seems more accurate and explainable to new players, maybe we should attempt to adopt this term