Lisa version 1.03 changes

[synce]

Buffs! Buffs! Freshly baked buffs, come get your buffs here! (Try not to drool.)

[NEW MOVE] 9PP4, 9KP4, KKPP4, KKKP4 can now end in back-turned stance. It is possible to move 10 frames faster than ending front-facing.
[NEW MOVE] Sidestep P+K: can change the facing direction during sidestep.
P: changed startup from 12 to 11F, changed advantage on normal hit or guard from -2 to +1F.
PK: removed wall blow back.
66PP: changed hit reaction on normal hit or higher to limbo stun.
8P: changed to allow move to be performed before the match.
KKK: changed held attribute from parry to jump mid kick hold.
Back turned K6K, 6PK4, K6K4, 2KK4, PKK4: changed recovery from 25 to 20.
3K4: changed recovery from 25 to 20F, fixed an issue that did not switch status to back-turned until after recovery finished even though the character is turned around.
9K, KKK: changed hit reaction on normal hit to knock down stun.
Back turned 7P: changed damage from 25 to 24, changed startup from 16 to 20, changed into a Critical Burst move.
Back turned 4P: removed wall blow back.
64T: changed startup from 6 to 11F.
Back turned 4P+K: changed the hit reaction on back-turned hit, allowing guaranteed back-turned 4P, etc. Also fixed an issue that made it go through an opponent often.
Sidestep P: changed startup from 32 to 28, changed hit reaction on Counter hit to crumple stun.
Heavy grounds attacks when facing forward: changed damage from 22 to 30.
Heavy grounds attacks when back-turned: changed damage from 20 to 40.
Back turned P+K, 7KP, PPPP+K: changed the status right after landing to squatting.
Back turned P+K4, 7KP4, PPPP+K4: fixed an issue that allowed command input delay.
Derivative followup moves cannot be done from Lisa's Twister (H+K at face-up opponent's feet).

Game-changers (IMO) are highlighted. There are a couple nerfs (like last K in KKK being holdable now) but they're heavily outweighed by the buffs I think

 

[Gruff757]

cant wait to try this stuff out

 

[ailingeternity]

P: changed startup from 12 to 11F, changed advantage on normal hit or guard from -2 to +1F.
66PP: changed hit reaction on normal hit or higher to limbo stun.
8P: changed to allow move to be performed before the match.
Back turned 7P: changed damage from 25 to 24, changed startup from 16 to 20, changed into a Critical Burst move.
Back turned 4P+K: changed the hit reaction on back-turned hit, allowing guaranteed back-turned 4P, etc. Also fixed an issue that made it go through an opponent often.

- Buff is extremely welcomed, she can now contend better at close range.
: - Isn't Deja Vu also i11? I feel one of them is going to become redundant.
- This string is going to really scare people now with limbo stun.
BT - Being i20 now there may be little in terms of guaranteed CB. Maybe from ?

Can't wait to test everything out! ^-^

 

[Gruff757]

- Buff is extremely welcomed, she can now contend better at close range.
: - Isn't Deja Vu also i11? I feel one of them is going to become redundant.
- This string is going to really scare people now with limbo stun.
BT - Being i20 now there may be little in terms of guaranteed CB. Maybe from ?

Can't wait to test everything out! ^-^

Yeah I'm definitely coing up with some scenarios to try out when i get home later

 

[Batcommander]

- Buff is extremely welcomed, she can now contend better at close range.
: - Isn't Deja Vu also i11? I feel one of them is going to become redundant.
- This string is going to really scare people now with limbo stun.
BT - Being i20 now there may be little in terms of guaranteed CB. Maybe from ?

Can't wait to test everything out! ^-^

Yeah, Synce brought that up during the earlier promo vid. I don't think it will be redundant because, i'm assuming, it will do more damage as a punish throw than deja vu. I don't believe zero damage throws get any HCT bonus, so deja vu will still be the go-to throw for hold punishing; for punishing -12, use 64throw. This will be a nasty punish against a wall too, since BT 4P no longer pushes people into a wall, yay!

Excited to see the P changes! I wonder if PP will still give +20 on hit tho? P then throw on block shenanigans just got a whole lot better. 9K causes a knockdown stun on normal hit--what kind of stun is that, exactly? At first i thought it meant sitdown stun . . .

Not sure what the body splash changes will do, is that a nerf or buff? As long as it doesn't affect our ability to get a guaranteed mid after it lands . . .

Also, new system changes say all vertical kicks cause untechable state against airborn opponents; does Lisa have any (can't remember off the top of my head, but i think this includes 6F+K).

I wonder if the grounded F+K note means we can't stun with the first trip kick, then follow up with something else; maybe it only allows F+KK now.

Also, they changed the recovery on 3K by reducing it by 5 frames; it was -8 on block, so i imagine it is now safe on block (-3). Unless my math is wrong lol.

edit: on reading through the notes again, i'm HOPING the body splash changes mean she ends up squatting if it misses, instead of ending up flat on her face. Otherwise i don't see the point of this change. If that's the case, then splash feint/ body splash mixup became a whole lot better.
Would've been nice if they adjusted qcf OH, but oh well.
The 9kp buff looks interesting, not sure what it will make the move more useful or not, but hopefully so.

 

[McNamara]

Im really happy about 66pp, it replaces the guaranteed damage of the missing 9k sit down stun. I think the 9k knocked down stun is the same of her 6h+k, if I´m correct, after using 9k I wail able to perform a BT4k to force tech the enemy.


Lisa will be High Tier at least, hell yeah!

 

[synce]

9K is still sitdown on CH/HCH, it just knocks down on NH

66P mixup potential is definitely huge and I agree Lisa will finally shine!

Oh yeah P being i11 and +1 now... It actually makes Lisa faster than Tina, whose i11 jab is +0

 

[Tones]

Though I like she now has more tools, she got way too many buffs. She was really good as she was. i11 jab is not needed at all. Give it to a character that deserves a jab. Brad Wong -> the only striking character that sucks at striking.

 

[Karraz]

I think we'll need a new thread for Lisa 1.03 combos, I´m thinking in a lot of idead right now, for example:

, , BT to Critical Burst the enemy, maybe

I want to try out the new splash feint or how it affect us, her new , OMGGGGG

 

[Neige]

Man, it's been so long since I've played this game, just recently heard of the new update and goddamn will that new 66PP change things for Lisa combos, but just one thing...

That supposed "new move" of 9PP4 and it's variants... That's just a back turned option to her back elbow I've been bitching about for so long, isn't it? So whats the point? It's a knock down on hit and if it wiffs, you're majorly screwed no matter how much recovery frames you shave off. So what's the point? Sorry, haven't had the chance to play the game lately.

 

[Batcommander]

Man, it's been so long since I've played this game, just recently heard of the new update and goddamn will that new 66PP change things for Lisa combos, but just one thing...

That supposed "new move" of 9PP4 and it's variants... That's just a back turned option to her back elbow I've been bitching about for so long, isn't it? So whats the point? It's a knock down on hit and if it wiffs, you're majorly screwed no matter how much recovery frames you shave off. So what's the point? Sorry, haven't had the chance to play the game lately.

The elbow is a guard break that leaves you at -5, i'm assuming you will now be at plus on block with the reduced recovery frames, but i'm not sure.

I'm actually really curious to see what this actually is, and if new shenanigans are possible with it.

 

[Tokkosho]

Mmmmm, 66PP>qcfK>4K, i can see it...... Mmmmmm

 

[Neige]

Makes sense. I think the one thing that really worries me right now is if the squatting recovery from the moonsault will interfere with the guaranteed 6P8K you could get off the Guard Break. That was probably the most overpowered thing with Lisa.

 

[Batcommander]

Makes sense. I think the one thing that really worries me right now is if the squatting recovery from the moonsault will interfere with the guaranteed 6P8K you could get off the Guard Break. That was probably the most overpowered thing with Lisa.

Yes, that was my concern too--but Synce was saying some things were mistranslated anyway, so i hope it means that you will be left in crouching on whiff, which would be a pretty neat buff. I don't understand the point of being left in crouch otherwise.


I don't think splash is overpowered because it can be crushed by basically any standing attack, even mids, and now that sidesteps are getting buffed, people will probably just move out the way on reaction (which is possible now of course, but again, people hardly use SS except for a few characters).

 

[synce]

+4 or 5 on new 9KP4 etc sounds about right. It's kind of like Ayane's 66KK4 where going into BT gives you adv. Could be useful, who knows... I never bothered with it before

 

[Karraz]

"Back turned P+K, 7KP, PPPP+K: changed the status right after landing to squatting.
Back turned P+K4, 7KP4, PPPP+K4: fixed an issue that allowed command input delay."

It says she will be squatting if it lands, so, I think it's a nerf.
With the other line, I'm glad they fixed that!

 

[synce]

They don't mention frames so I think you're fine, it's probably related to low throw punishment. I know Mila and Tina have similar changes with their tackles. So I'm sure you'll be able to do something like BT P+K,6P,PP4,SEEEEEEBEEEEEEE. Shit like that is the reason people start flocking to Lisa soon

 

[Batcommander]

They don't mention frames so I think you're fine, it's probably related to low throw punishment. I know Mila and Tina have similar changes with their tackles. So I'm sure you'll be able to do something like BT P+K,6P,PP4,SEEEEEEBEEEEEEE. Shit like that is the reason people start flocking to Lisa soon

Oh, you know come to think of it, you are probably right. I haven't tested it, but maybe the landing animation when it whiffs is not considered crouching, and now they are correcting it. If that is the case, then it means you are in even more trouble on whiff, since a lot of moves become sitdowns against crouching opponents o.o

edit: just checked, when you whiff body splash, the move is considered standing, and then crouching. I guess the patch note just rectifies that.

 

[synce]

^ Hmm seems to already register as crouching. If I had to bet I'd say they're just extending the crouching status, which could definitely hurt if you whiffed

 

[Chaos]

Hey guys remember when people was bitching about Jann Lee & Helena? Wait until they face Lisa. She's going to give people some serious pain! >:-] hehe. officially gives you a limbo stun!!?!? Her startup is 11?!! and it's +1 on block? allowing guaranteed back turn ?!! Haha OOH YES!!!