Two questions...

Arcane

Member
I have two unrelated questions, if anyone can help me out:

1. Is there a way to see the quality of your own connection? I'm playing wired and it should be decent but I would like to know how many bars it comes up as.

2. Is there a guide or documentation on how clashing attacks are prioritized? I get that the location of hit boxes play a big role but one of my biggest struggles right now is that seemly everyone has access to moves that override mine from neutral. I'm guessing these are attacks with a higher than normal amount of active frames but I would like to get some more details.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I have two unrelated questions, if anyone can help me out:

1. Is there a way to see the quality of your own connection? I'm playing wired and it should be decent but I would like to know how many bars it comes up as.

2. Is there a guide or documentation on how clashing attacks are prioritized? I get that the location of hit boxes play a big role but one of my biggest struggles right now is that seemly everyone has access to moves that override mine from neutral. I'm guessing these are attacks with a higher than normal amount of active frames but I would like to get some more details.
While you can't see exactly what your connection is, as long as you're wired and have good service you should be fine

And clashing attacks are kinda easy to figure out. Here's the ways that your attacks can be beat out/overridden in neutral from up close:

1)Speed. Speed is generally the number one thing, if your opponent is using an attack that's faster than yours, you'll be most likely to be beat out. If you're at a disadvantage and even if you use a fast attack, you're still gonna likely be beat out unless you can either use an attack that's quick enough or if you use an attack that crushes you're opponent.

An example would be if you're Kasumi versus Phase 4:

1):kasumi: Kasumi does 6K to:phase4:. Phase 4 takes the hit and Kasumi is now at +9.

2):phase4: is at -9 in that instant so she she has two choices, she can do P or she can use 214P against Kasumi who is gonna use her 18i Fatal Rush.

3):kasumi: uses her 18i FR(YEAAAHHH?!) and you as Phase 4 use her 9i P strike. You're gonna lose since in that instance because Kasumi is at +9, her FR is virtually a 9i frame attack and Phase 4's 9i attack in that instance is 18i because she's at -9 disadvantage.

4. HOWEVER if you chose instead to use 214P which crushes highs with the right timing, you'll avoid the high FR no matter how slow the high crush is(although in some cases it does depend since some attacks will only be considered crouching or jumping at a specific frame, but some attacks like Phase 4's 2H+K are considered crouching even during start up. There's also mid strikes in the game like nico's and kula's 1K, Mai's 2P+K, Kasumi's 33P(although it's slow and leaves her BT), Hayate's 1K, Marie Rose's 3H+K, and many more that can be used to beat high strikes but typically these attacks are unsafe and punishable in some way. People usually use these against faster characters as a get off me move


2). Another factor is power, if an opponent uses a an attack that is the same speed as yours, you're either gonna both take a hit or the stronger attack will override and win the trade.

3) An example would be :kasumi: and :momiji:

4) Kasumi uses her 4P which is 12i and Momiji uses her 7K which is also 12i. Guess who wins??

5)Momiji wins the trade with no dual double hit since her 7K is stronger than Kasumi's 4P so Kasumi is gonna be floored.

6)Then finally the last factor is indeed the hit box or crush in some attacks.:helena: has for example 33P which can crush highs and mid punches so the best way to go around that is using attacks that won't be beat by that crush even tho it doesn't look it can crush. The attack is 16i and crushes high and mid punches so in that instance as Kasumi you can use 3K or 6K to beat it out for a CH.

7) Another special way is attacks that have special sidestep properties. Kasumi would be a good example here: She has a 44P that sidesteps non tracking attacks and if it lands it'll blind stun on CH giving her +44 frame advantage. The attack however is weak to offensive holds and is a high but it's safe. Other characters like Christie also have special stances that can avoid linear attacks too, although in Christie's case she's able to avoid highs AND non tracking moves with hers.
 

Arcane

Member
While you can't see exactly what your connection is, as long as you're wired and have good service you should be fine

And clashing attacks are kinda easy to figure out. Here's the ways that your attacks can be beat out/overridden in neutral from up close:

1)Speed. Speed is generally the number one thing, if your opponent is using an attack that's faster than yours, you'll be most likely to be beat out. If you're at a disadvantage and even if you use a fast attack, you're still gonna likely be beat out unless you can either use an attack that's quick enough or if you use an attack that crushes you're opponent.

An example would be if you're Kasumi versus Phase 4:

1):kasumi: Kasumi does 6K to:phase4:. Phase 4 takes the hit and Kasumi is now at +9.

2):phase4: is at -9 in that instant so she she has two choices, she can do P or she can use 214P against Kasumi who is gonna use her 18i Fatal Rush.

3):kasumi: uses her 18i FR(YEAAAHHH?!) and you as Phase 4 use her 9i P strike. You're gonna lose since in that instance because Kasumi is at +9, her FR is virtually a 9i frame attack and Phase 4's 9i attack in that instance is 18i because she's at -9 disadvantage.

4. HOWEVER if you chose instead to use 214P which crushes highs with the right timing, you'll avoid the high FR no matter how slow the high crush is(although in some cases it does depend since some attacks will only be considered crouching or jumping at a specific frame, but some attacks like Phase 4's 2H+K are considered crouching even during start up. There's also mid strikes in the game like nico's and kula's 1K, Mai's 2P+K, Kasumi's 33P(although it's slow and leaves her BT), Hayate's 1K, Marie Rose's 3H+K, and many more that can be used to beat high strikes but typically these attacks are unsafe and punishable in some way. People usually use these against faster characters as a get off me move


2). Another factor is power, if an opponent uses a an attack that is the same speed as yours, you're either gonna both take a hit or the stronger attack will override and win the trade.

3) An example would be :kasumi: and :momiji:

4) Kasumi uses her 4P which is 12i and Momiji uses her 7K which is also 12i. Guess who wins??

5)Momiji wins the trade with no dual double hit since her 7K is stronger than Kasumi's 4P so Kasumi is gonna be floored.

6)Then finally the last factor is indeed the hit box or crush in some attacks.:helena: has for example 33P which can crush highs and mid punches so the best way to go around that is using attacks that won't be beat by that crush even tho it doesn't look it can crush. The attack is 16i and crushes high and mid punches so in that instance as Kasumi you can use 3K or 6K to beat it out for a CH.

7) Another special way is attacks that have special sidestep properties. Kasumi would be a good example here: She has a 44P that sidesteps non tracking attacks and if it lands it'll blind stun on CH giving her +44 frame advantage. The attack however is weak to offensive holds and is a high but it's safe. Other characters like Christie also have special stances that can avoid linear attacks too, although in Christie's case she's able to avoid highs AND non tracking moves with hers.
Great. Thank you for the detailed response. I'm good on the speed part and being at (dis)advantage. I'm sure there are characters with specialized attacks like you mentioned but this is an over-arching problem I have that is not specific to a match-up. I think power is the one I'm not factoring in. I've been more concerned about each move's speed, range and "safeness" that I never bothered to look at raw damage. Nor did I know that damage affected the priority. I'll double check some of my replays and see how my opponent's attacks and their power compare against the ones I'm using against them from neutral.

The attacks I'm referring to are less the bread-and-butter punches and kicks and more like attacks with long reach such as Lisa's spinning kick attacks or Momiji who seems to have an array of gap-closing moves that always beat out my own. I will check these moves out and see how much damage they are dealing. Thanks again.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Great. Thank you for the detailed response. I'm good on the speed part and being at (dis)advantage. I'm sure there are characters with specialized attacks like you mentioned but this is an over-arching problem I have that is not specific to a match-up. I think power is the one I'm not factoring in. I've been more concerned about each move's speed, range and "safeness" that I never bothered to look at raw damage. Nor did I know that damage affected the priority. I'll double check some of my replays and see how my opponent's attacks and their power compare against the ones I'm using against them from neutral. damage they are dealing. Thanks again.

It's not only during damage trades, it's usually hit levels as well. A i14 high that does 22 damage can still beat out a mid that does the same damage, but generally the mid will always beat the high if the damage of the mid is higher. Mostly layers to it all.

There is also cases of how long a move is active even with startup. Especially a move that has 8 active frames. Safeness usually goes to bind from either block pushback or with very light recovery (if the advantage is light enough generally).
 
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Arcane

Member
It's not only during damage trades, it's usually hit levels as well. A i4 high that does 22 damage can still beat out a mid that does the same damage, but generally the mid will always beat the high if the damage of the mid is higher. Mostly layers to it all.

There is also cases of how long a move is active even with startup. Especially a move that has 8 active frames. Safeness usually goes to bind from either block pushback or with very light recovery (if the advantage is light enough generally).
Thanks. I suspected active frames was one of them but did not know about level priority. So if I'm understanding you correctly, if a high and a mid connect at the same time and are identical in attributes except for one being a high and the other being a mid, the high always wins out?

What about between otherwise identical mids and lows? Will the mid beat the low?
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Thanks. I suspected active frames was one of them but did not know about level priority. So if I'm understanding you correctly, if a high and a mid connect at the same time and are identical in attributes except for one being a high and the other being a mid, the high always wins out?

What about between otherwise identical mids and lows? Will the mid beat the low?

Yep. However it will only apply if the high is the same damage as the mid or more initial damage than the mid. If the mid is the same speed as the high, but the mid does more damage, the mid will always win.

i12 high (24 damage) vs i12 mid (24 damage) - high wins (priority)
i12 high (26 damage) vs i12 mid (24 damage - high wins
i12 high (15 damage) vs i12 mid (24 damage) - mid wins (damage is higher from mid)

As for the low vs mid, the mid will have the same exact factor as the high vs the mid. So in which case, if mid has the same damage as the low and trade at the same speed, the mid will win. If mid does more damage, mid will still win. However, if low has more initial damage than the mid and trade at the same speed, low will win.

You could say that low is the bottom of the barrel of the bunch, but because lows crushes highs, it obtained a purpose, so you could consider it as a Rock/Paper/Scissor format within.
 
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Arcane

Member
Yep. However it will only apply if the high is the same damage as the mid or more initial damage than the mid. If the mid is the same speed as the high, but the mid does more damage, the mid will always win.

i12 high (24 damage) vs i12 mid (24 damage) - high wins (priority)
i12 high (26 damage) vs i12 mid (24 damage - high wins
i12 high (15 damage) vs i12 mid (24 damage) - mid wins (damage is higher from mid)

As for the low vs mid, the mid will have the same exact factor as the high vs the mid. So in which case, if mid has the same damage as the low and trade at the same speed, the mid will win. If mid does more damage, mid will still win. However, if low has more initial damage than the mid and trade at the same speed, low will win.

You could say that low is the bottom of the barrel of the bunch, but because lows crushes highs, it obtained a purpose, so you could consider it as a Rock/Paper/Scissor format within.
Excellent. I understand. Yeah, I had no clue strikes were prioritized this way. One more piece of the puzzle.
 

Raansu

Well-Known Member
For the connection side of things, if they have a 5 bar for you, then you are also a 5 bar for them. Outside of that there's no way of knowing other then doing a speed test on your console to get a general idea of your ping, speed you're getting and if you're getting any packet loss.
 

Arcane

Member
For the connection side of things, if they have a 5 bar for you, then you are also a 5 bar for them. Outside of that there's no way of knowing other then doing a speed test on your console to get a general idea of your ping, speed you're getting and if you're getting any packet loss.
Thanks. Makes sense.
 
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