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Zeo's DOA5U Ein Frame Data Chart

Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
DOA5 Hayate could have worked honestly. It was a mixture of DOA3 and 4 Hayate but lacked the frame advantage of 3 and the unpredictability and mixup potential of 4 which ended up being a trainwreck. I've touched time and again on how they could fix up so I don't really need to again but I will say Ein can be great without changing much but it's in the frames mostly.

DOA4 Ein port would be horrible in 5 but with certain move properties/safety and frame advantage he could wo-... wait. I made a chart showing exactly how I think he should play, do I even need to be posting this? lol
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Yea, the frames deal is obvious. I just don't want them to take away. That's why I don't want them to change him from DOA4. I guess to be a bit more specific, I don't want moves lost unless they're replaced with good reason by something clearly better.

Example:

Hayate 1P+K (DOA4 Uppercut/Shoryuken)
Replaced with/Moved to 6P+K~P+K

This was a likable change. 50/50 mix-up on launchers. Both unsafe. Significant frame advantage with a high punch with allowed you to pressure with dash in 236T, 7K. The wind dash throw mix-up at the time felt lacking but the damage of the throw was nothing to take for granted.

The only problem was they sacrificed his best poke and other non-gimmicky options from the wind dash to give something good... but lacking.

The DOA4 Wind Dash was means to an entry in a way with a good NH mid P stun, good wall blow Mid K, good low mix-up, and good throw (aesthetically), and overall a teleport to get in unexpectedly.

The DOA5 Wind Dash had two launchers and a cover of +7 to it if the opponent decides to block as well as a throw mix-up for block and holders as well. This works best in stun with 4P6P+K because you get the 50/50 on launchers and you can cover those with the high punch (if you need a wall splat and the throw for good damage.

More transitions to work with would help this a lot, that's Hayate though.

Ein, I don't want to suffer with a half assed deal between. Anyway I gotta go.
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
They could nerf his frames some more but I honestly don't know what they could actually take away from Ein. He's so... bare bones already I'll say. Slowing down 4K is a pretty amazingly drastic way to nerf him though.
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Zeo said:
He's so... bare bones already I'll say. Slowing down 4K is a pretty amazingly drastic way to nerf him though.
Click to expand...
Scrapping 3KKK since he has 9KK forcing you to always 3K, 9K. They could turn his 66PK into a high like Hitomi's which is a blessing and a curse at the same time. They could nerf the speed of 4K. They could make nothing track because adding the side step factor into the game made things a lot different for many characters since now their better moves can be sidestepped.

There's a lot and in the end it'd just feel like you're getting fucked over... which I don't want... but hopefully the fact that they say he'll play the same will solidify some aspect of him... Anyway, I just hope he's safe.
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
TakedaZX said:
Scrapping 3KKK since he has 9KK forcing you to always 3K, 9K. They could turn his 66PK into a high like Hitomi's which is a blessing and a curse at the same time. They could nerf the speed of 4K. They could make nothing track because adding the side step factor into the game made things a lot different for many characters since now their better moves can be sidestepped.

There's a lot and in the end it'd just feel like you're getting fucked over... which I don't want... but hopefully the fact that they say he'll play the same will solidify some aspect of him... Anyway, I just hope he's safe.
Click to expand...
If 3K caused a sit down I wouldn't care if it lost it's followup as 3KKK's only use outside of that would be to catch people that decided to stop blocking. That and if it was a standalone move it would have to be made safe. Knowing TN though it would probably stay unsafe, not be a SDS and we'd just have lost a good tool.

Actually... every will disagree with me but I think... 3P should track. He turns his body in a circular motion before bringing out his fist like Gen Fu's 214P. But... it would be an i13 tracking mid... the fastest tracking move in the game... Jesus.
 
Zeo

Zeo

Well-Known Member
JAG THE GEMINI said:
But the range of 3P is short and on NH it doesn´t give you anything special.
Click to expand...
A tracking move catching a step functions the same as a mid hitting an opponent blocking while crouching. It gives you the stun properties of a move on CH without the bonus CH damage. So yes you WILL get the deep lift stun if it catches them stepping.
 
TakedaZX

TakedaZX

Well-Known Member
Zeo said:
A tracking move catching a step functions the same as a mid hitting an opponent blocking while crouching. It gives you the stun properties of a move on CH without the bonus CH damage. So yes you WILL get the deep lift stun if it catches them stepping.
Click to expand...
Hitting someone out of SS is CH.
 
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