"My instincts lead me to victory." - The Ein tech and matchup thread
- Thread starter Tenryuga
- Start date
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Maybe you guys could help me solidify and develop some tech I found. Ein's K causes a stun that if the opponent does not hold he gets no follow up if he chooses not to KK. I found that if you see your opponent fall to the ground you can attempt a sweep. If they tech roll the sweep I narrowed it down to Ein being at +1. If they do not they Ein is at +16. They cannot wakeup kick to escape this situation though if they take a sweep they are some distance away. Possible followups are dash in jab, 66PP, 6K and 66T. 3p whiffs and only hits when they are pressing buttons. That's all I have for now.
GodlyHades
Active Member
I'm still learning Ein, but im defintely going to start helping you. PM me because im not that godo with DOA termonology yet, and frame data.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Close range - 3P, P strings, 2P, 6K. 2H+K
Mid range - 46K, 236K, 66P, 236P, 46P, 2H+K, 1K
I have a few juggles in the juggle thread. If you have any questions ask. I should make a Ein top 10 moves thread too so that people can have in-depth discussion on his moves.
AsuraEX
New Member
Awesome dude thanks a lot! I'll try these out tomorrow.
Alright, I was planning to do all the relevant frame data here, but as you'll see the list becomes very short as most of the moves are at very high frame disadvantage on block.
= 10 frames, -2 on block
= 12, -4 on block
= 12, -7 on block
= 13
= 13, -4 on block
= 13, -4 on block
= 13, -8 on block
= 14, -5 on block
= 14, -10 on block
= 15, -13 on block
= 17, -6 on block
= 18, -5 on block
= 20, +1 on block
= 24
= 30, +13 to +14 on block (+14 distant guarantees )
= 33, +1 on block
= +7 on block
Feel free to contribute to the list, I simple stuck to the "essentials" of fast and advantage on block moves, where you don't really care about +20 frames moves as they will never beat the opponent to the punch unless they crush, which makes frame data irrelevant.
I was trying to find more "fast" and frame traps, but truth be told Ein has turned into a powerhouse rather than the fast hitter I remember him as.
I've been doing some ranked matches in tag with Hitomi as the backup, and I won't hold back on the fact that she is the carrier by a long shot (then again I used her in DoA5, so it is no surprise). That said everything Ein does Hitomi seem to be able to do better, with the exception of low crushes in and , and low crit on hit ..His best juggles also require the difficult "while getting up " to perfect timing and no lagg, and the output doesn't seem to be worth teaching the muscles reflexes for it. and seem to not work reliable anymore, I've tried using both my PS3 controllers and I constantly end up in low grab and what not, (or tag switz in for that matter). I'm still relearning the changes I guess, but I'm amazed of why the has become so sensitive for screw ups, which is essential for Ein's move sets of the old, not to mention difficulties of execution during lagg.
I'll update my "logg of discoveries" as time moves on, but right now I'm very skeptical. I've no difficulties admitting that new characters like Momiji (which I also believe I will be maining) has far better potential than what I see in Ein so far. Thus I don't see how he can become high tier with his current setup. Again, I'm not skilled yet, and it would be stupid to judge a character so early on, but fact is that if the opponent sticks to blocking, he's got very little to reply with. Or am I wrong?
Please, let us try continue to evolve this characters strategies together to throw my initial impression away. I really like this character's "setup", so I don't want him to suck.
= 10 frames, -2 on block = 12, -4 on block = 12, -7 on block = 13 = 13, -4 on block = 13, -4 on block = 13, -8 on block = 14, -5 on block = 14, -10 on block = 15, -13 on block = 17, -6 on block = 18, -5 on block = 20, +1 on block = 24 = 30, +13 to +14 on block (+14 distant guarantees ) = 33, +1 on block = +7 on blockFeel free to contribute to the list, I simple stuck to the "essentials" of fast and advantage on block moves, where you don't really care about +20 frames moves as they will never beat the opponent to the punch unless they crush, which makes frame data irrelevant.
I was trying to find more "fast" and frame traps, but truth be told Ein has turned into a powerhouse rather than the fast hitter I remember him as.
I've been doing some ranked matches in tag with Hitomi as the backup, and I won't hold back on the fact that she is the carrier by a long shot (then again I used her in DoA5, so it is no surprise). That said everything Ein does Hitomi seem to be able to do better, with the exception of low crushes in
and , and low crit on hit ..His best juggles also require the difficult "while getting up " to perfect timing and no lagg, and the output doesn't seem to be worth teaching the muscles reflexes for it. and seem to not work reliable anymore, I've tried using both my PS3 controllers and I constantly end up in low grab and what not, (or tag switz in for that matter). I'm still relearning the changes I guess, but I'm amazed of why the has become so sensitive for screw ups, which is essential for Ein's move sets of the old, not to mention difficulties of execution during lagg.I'll update my "logg of discoveries" as time moves on, but right now I'm very skeptical. I've no difficulties admitting that new characters like Momiji (which I also believe I will be maining) has far better potential than what I see in Ein so far. Thus I don't see how he can become high tier with his current setup. Again, I'm not skilled yet, and it would be stupid to judge a character so early on, but fact is that if the opponent sticks to blocking, he's got very little to reply with. Or am I wrong?
Please, let us try continue to evolve this characters strategies together to throw my initial impression away. I really like this character's "setup", so I don't want him to suck.
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Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Ein has a strong footsie and whiff punishment game due to the range of his moves and the frame advantage on his gap closers; 236K and 46K being +1. He also has a high damage output from 33K, While rising K, and 8P. At worst his damage at stun > launch is 74 points and at best 89 points. Very few characters have such a high damage output that early in the threshold. If the opponent is guarding the least risky thing to do is to reply by using any grab; preferably his 33T due to it being the most damaging. He also has his sweep to get good frame advantage from as well as 2P harassment due to it being +1 on hit. Sooner or later the opponent is going to realize that they can't afford to sit there and guard all day long because nobody wants to take grabs 24 / 7.
Ein also makes great use of bounds unlike Hitomi. His bound damage output is high from 8P and KK. You are correct when you say the other new characters have better tools than Ein but Ein is still a solid character. His tools are sufficient enough to secure wins if the player is on point. It's a bit harder than other characters but yeah just keep working on him.
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UprisingJC
Well-Known Member
StryBlu
Member
I like the 6K to 6KK. Is it guareenteed? or is it just a quick launcher
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
It's a stun. His opponent countered after getting hit with 6K so JC followed with 6KK for the wall splat. It's not guaranteed because the stun on 6K can be stagger escaped.
UprisingJC
Well-Known Member
Not guaranteed and it can be blocked if you slow escape fast enough. 6K on CH causes a short stun only.
JAG THE GEMINI
Active Member
@UprisingJC
I really like your DOA5U Ein even if the game is new.
You made great use of 2p pressure, SSK(which should escape some strings due to having a TC move after the
sidestep) and how you used 214 throw. Since 33T seems inconsistent to do atm, this throw is the next one to
go since it deals a lot of damage too. Now if 33K woulnd´t be so tight input wise we could at least overcome
those DOAU5 issues with 33 commands.
I really like your DOA5U Ein even if the game is new.
You made great use of 2p pressure, SSK(which should escape some strings due to having a TC move after the
sidestep) and how you used 214 throw. Since 33T seems inconsistent to do atm, this throw is the next one to
go since it deals a lot of damage too. Now if 33K woulnd´t be so tight input wise we could at least overcome
those DOAU5 issues with 33 commands.
UprisingJC
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
33T now is really tricky so I replace it with 214T.
I almost forget the existence of 33k lol.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Ein's spacing is strong. 1K is a nice tool to bait responses from your opponent and approach with. 46P is my favorite whiff punisher; It has never failed me. I'm still trying to work 46K, 236K and 6P+K as well as his other good moves at distance to solidify my spacing / footsie game.
UprisingJC
Well-Known Member
Ein is a weakling for close combat but a beast for spacing.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
UprisingJC
Well-Known Member
1. Lack of good follow-ups such as Kasumi's 6pk or 6p2k for close combat. 3p has no follow-up but it's safe on block and it cause a long stun...well still acceptable. 6KK causes a sit-down stun on NH only, knocks down his opponent on CH or HCH, and is unsafe on block.
He doesn't have many good options for close combat IMO. Maybe just his 3P and 2P.
2. Lack of good anti-SSing ability especially when he's facing characters like Christie and Bayman.
3. Many of his good moves are for mid-to-long range. 46P, 236P, 236K, H+K...etc