How will you use Lisa in 5U?

[Tones]

From what we know at the moment...

She's safer, daja vue does more damage. Her new OH is pretty the bomb. More potential damage with her power launcher and new stun/launch status.

grounded f+k doesn't have the CB anymore. 1k sucks on normal hit now. 1p is less spammable. Kick launchers have less juggle potential.

She's not "overall nerfed" they just want us to play her different. Use BT more. Use her 3k more. Mix up 33p with da ja vue. 1p is still a very good tool, just don't use it to interrupt anymore.

I can see 6pk4 being a bad ass whiff punishing tool. 2p for a 9 frame crush with push back on neutral or stun game on counter. p is now a 6 frame high. If 6pk4 hit counter, 6p+f for a frame trap OH, otherwise launch or stun game.

k2kk may be useful now, but I'd have to experiment a bit. How is k2k by itself?

 

[synce]

Man it stings seeing all those nerfs lumped together lol Big thanks for putting the info together though

BTW the butt slam is now the longest reaching OH in the game at 3.36m. The recovery is insanely bad though (40F), you better hope it connects

I've been messing around more and more with some new strats and I have to say the new Lisa is not bad at all. She's not a monster anymore, but still better than many characters.

 

[Gruff757]

I've been messing around with BT , looking for some nice setups with it.

pretty simple ones would be:

SETUPS
, BT , BT

, BT

, BT

, BT


TECH TRAPS(?)
, , BT

, BT

BT , , BT (still screwing around with this one cause its a bit weird and iffy at the moment)

what do you guys think of these so far?

 

[ailingeternity]

I've been messing around with BT , looking for some nice setups with it.

on NH works particularly well with it, CAR and into booty bump too. Most of her BT transitions on counter hit will work too.

From what we know at the moment...

She's safer, daja vue does more damage. Her new OH is pretty the bomb. More potential damage with her power launcher and new stun/launch status.

grounded f+k doesn't have the CB anymore. 1k sucks on normal hit now. 1p is less spammable. Kick launchers have less juggle potential.

She's not "overall nerfed" they just want us to play her different. Use BT more. Use her 3k more. Mix up 33p with da ja vue. 1p is still a very good tool, just don't use it to interrupt anymore.

I can see 6pk4 being a bad ass whiff punishing tool. 2p for a 9 frame crush with push back on neutral or stun game on counter. p is now a 6 frame high. If 6pk4 hit counter, 6p+f for a frame trap OH, otherwise launch or stun game.

k2kk may be useful now, but I'd have to experiment a bit. How is k2k by itself?

is +24 and causes crumple stun, has worthless follow-up, you can't combo into it or land a force tech so it's pretty ass. What you CAN do is go into BT after and use instant pressure if they tech with things like BT or BT . is +3 on every type of hit, safe, but nothing special, -10 on block. What little low game she had in vanilla is totally demolished, but yes BT mind games are all the rage with Lisa in Ultimate and to potent effect as well, is still viable and I've yet to see a power launcher combo that surpasses hers (I imagine Bass or Tina can do better).

 

[Tones]

No just k2k, not k2kk.

"Low game"... explain.

 

[ailingeternity]

Ok, let's look at her lows and high/mid to low strings.

LOWS

- 21 frame startup, tracks, 2in1, crushes highs, -7/-8 on NH (depending on open or closed stance), throw punishable regardless of range used. This move now forces you to use one of it's follow-up's to avoid punishment, if you're looking to high crush, stick with , it's faster.
- 16 frame startup, crushes highs, +0 on NH, no tracking. If you can land it on CH (+3) you can push opponents back granting space. If this had more range or was faster it would be a great harass tool to push away bulldog playstyles and allow Lisa much more spacing potential.
- 16 frame startup, does not crush highs, no tracking, -8 on NH. Has two follow-ups but is the only one worth using since you can enter BT, anyone trying to hold that can be taught a lesson with Deja Vu. Good on CH and when used in combos but not much else.
- 27 frame startup, crushes lows. Has decent range and creates space whether on hit or block since it causes guard break, but still a weak move.
CAR - No changes from vanilla, 25 frame startup, causes knockdown at close range. Just creates a mixup option from CAR, nothing scary here.

HIGH/MID - LOW STRINGS

- See previous post.
- 14 frame startup, causes knockdown but very unsafe (-22, free launch), you must respect the flop knockdown can cause though but that can be easily teched out of.
- 20 frames, -7 on block and leaves Lisa in BT so it's throw punishable but actually a very good string, since, tracks it forces a harsh 50/50 when mixed in with even if it's blocked.

BT MOVES

- Her best low, 16 frame startup and crushes highs, scary when used in combos (+16) and +11 on NH, allows pressure. Still throw punishable though (-6).
- 19 frame startup, -7 on block (free throw), but has better range than BT .

To round things off, Lisa has a hard time starting pressure with any of her lows ( and are her only safe lows and and are the only lows that have follow-ups). Unless she's in BT there's just too much risk involved and even then being in BT is also another problem since it leaves Lisa vulnerable, although she can use good spacing and frame advantage to counter this. She can have a better game by exposing the vulnerability of her opponent with spacing, CH hunting, hold baiting, throw punishing, forcing 50/50's, OH's, you get the idea. This is still of course my opinion and DOA5U is still fresh but even playing online I'm avoiding like the plague .

 

[Tones]

66p(p/k) is a decent tool.
BT 2p and 2p is a good "get off me" move.
1k now is not as reliable as a high crush. Still decent/safe at range. -8/9 means no low OH (low OH have more range) will land.

 

[Gruff757]

i could definitely be wrong, but I think we could use BT as a minor mixup for BT

 

[FightersLegend]

 

[b-bombs]

BT is so much more important with 5U Lisa. I gotta get used getting into BT asap, and utilizing the BT throws to punish and mixup. Anyone else plan on heavily using BT ?

 

[Brute]

BT is so much more important with 5U Lisa. I gotta get used getting into BT asap, and utilizing the BT throws to punish and mixup. Anyone else plan on heavily using BT ?

Already doing that.

 

[AkaShocka]

Great video, I'm just wondering why won't they do some of her known combos like after a launch, do 6p8k then 7k CAR p+k. But other than that, great video. It really was nothing new, just some stuff from vanilla, I did pretty much all of those in vanilla. But whatever . Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Cylith]

Was messing around with combos to use and I found this: BT
IF the opponent was dumb enough to not counter the flip kick, since its 31 frames, or shake out(MOST people won't I notice)they get hit with a sit stun that goes straight into a CB. Then adding the the power launcher combos and you're hitting 140+ easy without a CH starter. Over 160 if CH.

What I really like about this combo is the Carrera cancels for mix-up if you're blocked or expecting a counter. It leaves your opponent guessing since there is so MUCH she can do from those.

I've landed this more than I can count, even against competent players who I train with all the time whether its the combo itself or the mix-ups.

 

[PLAtinum OswaLD]

You dropped Lisa?!?! There is no such thing!

once you go lisa you never go back XP

 

[PLAtinum OswaLD]

in my opinion these changes are great, it turns lisa into more of a quality character, some of her tools were kinda ridiculous. seems to me they just brought her back down to earth like they did with kokoro. while SOME of her stuff isnt as good, she's still solid all around and this will probably make us all better and smarter lisa players. using her full arsenal rather than relying on a few things. AND THAT NEW BT OH WHERE SHE GIVES YOU A FACE FULL OF ASS, THAT SHIT IS THE BOMB
(and where can i get that nascar lookin outfit? must have bcuz that shit is the bomb too)

 

[DR2K]

in my opinion these changes are great, it turns lisa into more of a quality character, some of her tools were kinda ridiculous. seems to me they just brought her back down to earth like they did with kokoro. while SOME of her stuff isnt as good, she's still solid all around and this will probably make us all better and smarter lisa players. using her full arsenal rather than relying on a few things. AND THAT NEW BT OH WHERE SHE GIVES YOU A FACE FULL OF ASS, THAT SHIT IS THE BOMB
(and where can i get that nascar lookin outfit? must have bcuz that shit is the bomb too)

The new ultimate sexy DLC.

 

[MasterHavik]

can i get a list of her changes?

 

[ailingeternity]

can i get a list of her changes?

Here - http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/lisa-changes-doa5u.3431/

 

[MasterHavik]

Hmm....she seems nerfed, but she may have stayed the same. I'll look into her. I can use her, but I really need to learn how to properly do deja vu on command.

 

[Paradise]

What are the best lows for baiting ? The combo potential is insane but nobody wants to low hold me dammit