DOA5U Ayane Match-Ups Discussion

Force_of_Nature

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Current problem character: :leifang:

Anyone have any tips on how to handle her? This not-so-cute bubbly Chinese chick can be a pain in the ass to deal with when her poking and defense is on point.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Ayane (i10/i13/i12) vs Kokoro (i10/i12/i13)

Before, I stated that this match up was uphill for Ayane. After gaining a lot more experience in the match up, I no longer believe it is uphill. It is rather more favorable for Ayane than it is for Kokoro.

Ayane has a lot of variety in her CQC arsenal;

- P (Jab cancel mix ups)
- PP (and strings)
- P4P (Safe)
- 6P (crushes jabs at initial frames and has follow ups)
- 6K (has a delayable low sweep)
- 2P
- K/KK (Rapes sabakis and special punch parries)
- 8K (hi crush)
- 4P (hi crush)
- 1P (hi crush)
- BT PP (and strings)
- BT 2P

Kokoro has very good string variety that include lows mid string, and throws at the end of some strings to keep side step attempts in check. Her strings are indeed good, but better strings like 1KK have been toned down, as in, it has gotten slower for the mid kick follow up. Kokoro can only really open Ayane up through her mids (ideally 6P) and her lows. Because Ayane has 8K and 4P to deal with highs (not to say that Kokoro cannot use her highs or jabs in the match up, but if she expects to do it often, Ayane gets easy damage). Ayane's 2P blows up Kokoro's low game, but it loses out to Kokoro's 6P (obviously, since it is a damaging mid of the same frame as the low).

Kokoro's throw attempts from her strings and her side step can be counter hit on reaction once you start recognizing what they look like. Take her to the lab and just mess with her strings that lead into her throw options, and set the A.I. to her doing these strings. Some practice there will make the difference of just guessing and reacting.

Keep this bit in mind;

While upclose, it's about knowing what Kokoro's options are as opposed to your own. Kokoro has very good string mixup. Kokoro has her new Heichu transition from various moves such as PP2KP+K, 2H+KP+K, 66P+KP+K, etc. Heichu consists of a high, mid (guard break), and low follow ups.

However, all three options are linear, making them susceptible to side steps. Furthermore, all three options of Heichu can be interrupted by 9 to 10 frame jabs. You may interrupt certain options with a faster mid or a low jab, but a simple jab is your safest bet if you intend to interrupt Heichu on reaction instead of side stepping it.

To add to this, you can interrupt Heichu option selects with Ayane's low jab (2P) as well (other chararcters with a i12 or i11 mid can interrupt Heichu option selects as well). You are only going to fear Heichu when you are in Critical stun because you actually have to guess. Kokoro has a new sabaki that is made to sabaki mid punches, specifically. However, the active window for it is small, and it doesn't actually mean anything to Ayane because she has her K and 6K kicks (sabakis and punch parries mean very little to Ayane).

Ayane has a good time dealing with Kokoro in CQC, but she has a better time keep her out at a distance.

Let's not be ignorant here, Kokoro is actually pretty good at a distance too. 66P is really good, 214P is good for whiff punishment. She also has 1KK, 1P, 46PP, and P+K. Kokoro's 1KK in general is actually very legit as a means of getting in. And 1KK4K ends with a mid kick, and is safe on block. But keep this in mind, 1K, 1KK, and 1KK4K are linear. Her only tracking move from 1KK is 1KKK, which ends with a high kick, and it's -7 on block.

1P is a low punch, followed by a high (1PP), into a mid (1PP6P) or a low (1PPP). Or 1PH+P, which is a throw. Either way, you DO NOT ever have to respect 1P's follow ups, if you see Kokoro going for 1PP or 1PH+P, just hi crush her with 4P, 8K, 1P or 2P.

Her P+K is +1 on block, and is a high punch.

46PP starts high and ends with a mid punch. It's range is pretty deceptive, but linear. All of these options I listed are linear.

The nerf to her 6P+KP also did a number on her brain dead rush down. Since it no longer stuns on neutral hit. But she doesn't have nearly enough to scare Ayane from not wanting to do anything while keeping Kokoro off her, either. All of Kokoro's options to get in or "rush in" with are linear (means you can side step them).

Ayane has;

- 3P
- P4P
- 3H+K
- BT P
- BT PP
- BT PP6KK4
- BT 4P+KP (delay or free cancel the follow up to keep players in check)
- BT4H+K
- BT 6P
- BT 2K
- BT 2P
- BT 6K
- [1]P+K P (guard breaks)
- 1P+K K (whiff punishment and is safe on block at all ranges)

-- to keep Kokoro in check, to keep her out, and to whiff punish her with. All Kokoro can really do to a competent Ayane at range is punish her if she gets sloppy somewhere and whiff punish any badly place whiffs (as you would with any character in any match up).

I believe this match up is 6-4 in Ayane's favor. Both characters can dish out a lot of damage, and once Kokoro stuns you, she can mix up well for the Critical Burst or her combo throw or launch for big damage. Ayane can dish out the same damage just through stun > launch. And Ayane's 214H+P will do 99 damage on hi counter, and about 109 on hi counter with a wall.

Kokoro has been nerfed a bit in this game, and it has hurt her a bit in this match up. While Ayane has actually gotten better in this game than she was in Vanilla.
 
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iHajinShinobi

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Ayane (i10/i13/i12) vs Ein (i10/i13/i13)

In DOA5U, Ayane has it easier against Ein than she did in previous titles. Ein's 6P+K is slower since it is his Critical Burst now. So his best ranged whiff punisher is not that great of a threat to her anymore (still is one, but not as bad as before). But let's not be fooled here, Ein is really good and well balanced. His low jab (2P) is +1 on neutral hit, so he becomes i9/i12/i12 after the +1. This is good advantage that favors him.

However, he doesn't really have anything to keep side step in check in CQC. Except for 4P/4PP and 236H+P offensive hold (catch throw). Fighting Ein up close as Ayane is more of a chore for him than it is an actual fight. Because he "needs" to be a bit more defensive than she does here. As his mix up in CQC is a bit dull.

Some things Ein can do up close to mix up with;

- P
- PP (and strings)
- PK (free cancel or delay but the follow up doesn't track)
- P > 3P
- P > 6K
- P > 2P
- P > 236H+P
- P > Throw (Universal tactic)
- 2P > 3P
- 2P > 6K
- 2P > 236H+P
- 9P (Hi crush)

His 3P is his i13 frame mid punch, and it is -4 on block. If it's blocked, anything else he decides to attack with is 4 frames slower, take advantage of this and make your offense happen. 3P has no follow ups. And it doesn't stun on neutral hit, only counter hit and in Critical stun. But when it does stun, it is a lift stun, so you are put into a lose lose situation. You cannot stagger out of 3P's stun fast enough to block anything or lower a follow up launch's launch height. So you will either take damage or you will have to guess with a hold.

3P in stun leads into a solid 50/50 mix up with 33H+P, 3P, 33K, or whatever else Ein decides he wants to do. Be afraid of it if you are in stun.

But also keep in mind that Ein's CQC is fairly limited to what's listed above, as far as speed is concerned. Both his side step attacks are throw punishable on block as well. SS P is i7 throw punishable, and SS K is low throw punishable. SS K is a low sweep, by the way.

Ayane has her usual options in CQC to deal with Ein, and he also does not have a fast high kick as she does to nullify sabaki or punch parries like she can. Ayane's 6P and 6K are better than his, as they have follow ups (6P having reliable follow ups), which will score her a mix up in stun or a knock down for her to play keep away or gain some offensive momentum.

Her low jab (2P) is also a frame faster than his and has a bit more range on it than his, and is a neutral (+0) on hit. But she can get a +1 from her low jab at tip range, which is sneaky (and awesome).

When things get at a distance, it's more about who has more patience. Because Ein's range game is actually fairly good, and he can legitimately punish Ayane if she's sloppy. One thing I want Ayane players to keep in mind here, is that in this match up, rolling in on Ein is considered death. Both his 6P+K and 4K (especially) will rape her in the ass, hard. DO NOT roll in on Ein in this match up, ever. I can't stress that enough, if you're rolling in at Ein and eating damage so often, then it's your own fault for making bad approaches.

You want to keep to our usual range tools here, and be more level headed about your footing. Ein has things like;

- 236P
- 46P (although this one is honestly the least of our worries, back spin ducks under highs)
- 4K
- 6P+K
- 1KP (has 3 follow ups, but 1K itself is actually decent for it's range)
- H+K (tracks)

We have our huge arsensal of range tools at our disposal. And personally, once I have the life lead, I like to force Ein to come to me, so I will turtle and play very defensive because I find it a lot easier for me and more difficult for Ein to safely close distance against her.

This is just my preference, but it's a solid approach for the range game because you want Ein to get impatient. Plus, he doesn't have a lot in his arsenal for the range game. If you force him to come to you, he has to inch in patiently, run in and block to test you out, or make a risky approach through 1K, 6P+K or something else.

This match up was moreso a 5-5 in DOA4, and possibly previous titles. Now? 6-4 in Ayane's favor. Side step made his better tools linear, his range game is solid but Ayane still outshines him in the range game (when you are not trying to roll in at him). He's not much of a problem in CQC. Ein will pounce on Ayane if she's not paying attention and is fighting him sloppy. But if she is on point, he's not that hard for her. Patience is the key to keep the fight favorable for her.
 
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ShinMaruku

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Having some issues with Misty
And a pointer or two against Jacky. He's not too bad but he can mess me up at times.
 

iHajinShinobi

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I'm a bit limited on the Jacky match up right now. I explain match ups thoroughly through solid personal experience, rather just what's on paper. I'll need more time against him before I give input, only played Calijared's Jacky a few times.

If anyone has better experience and can thoroughly explain the match up. By all means, feel free to do so.
 

ShinMaruku

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His defense what cause me some issues. He can pick me off with counter blows. Only with a throw or 2 p or 6HK I get some milage.
 

HoodsXx

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Just curious, on if any of you, or if just Hajin will be doing the Ayane vs Brad Match-up. If so, let me know.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Ohhh... this ought to be good. Two of the most annoying characters with two of the largest movesets going at it. Can't wait till that Match-up is up!
 

iHajinShinobi

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Once I fight a better Brad offline, I'll give my analysis. As I'm sure it's still a favorable match up for Ayane (only because it always has been), but I don't want to say a lot without better experience against one "in this game".

I explain match ups thoroughly through solid personal experience, rather just what's on paper.

I'll get to the Rachel, Leifang, and Kasumi match ups soon though.
 

HoodsXx

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Once I fight a better Brad offline, I'll give my analysis. As I'm sure it's still a favorable match up for Ayane, but I don't want to say a lot without better experience.

:x. Yeah for Brad it's definitely in Ayane's favor there's no doubt about that, most definitely an up-hill battle for him in CQC and when it comes to spacing. I'd say he needs to at least in CQC, commit more to punishing predictable string habits with holds when he can or get a throw punish if depending on if the Ayane throws something unsafe or not. Sadly Lay-down doesn't help him much, if at all since lol 1P knocks him out of it consistently. This is just a little of what I know from facing Gary, and Gill Hustle offline at TFC. Hopefully someday soon we can get some offline matches in, to better play out this match-up.
 
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phoenix1985gr

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:x. Yeah for Brad it's definitely in Ayane's favor there's no doubt about that, most definitely an up-hill battle for him in CQC and when it comes to spacing. I'd say he needs to at least in CQC, commit more to punishing predictable string habits with holds when he can or get a throw punish if depending on if the Ayane throws something unsafe or not. Sadly Lay-down doesn't help him much, if at all since lol 1P knocks him out of it consistently. This is just a little of what I know from facing Gary, and Gill Hustle offline at TFC. Hopefully someday soon we can get some offline matches in, to better play out this match-up.

Actually against his Lay-down stance she has a much better tool to deal with it... 4P fast mid tracking launching move...
 

Sean

New Member
How does she fair against the vf characters. i know shes a zoning character but what happens when the character gets close and is applying pressure. Playing games like AE and umvc made me rely on options to reset the situation (DP and pushblocking) but in this game i feel like once some characters start their offense then its VERY hard to win back that space
 

iHajinShinobi

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The Pai match up is one I'll work on with Codemaster. Against Sarah and Akira, they are actually pretty fair for Ayane. I'll get to those and the others once I have some time.

Jacky, I am remembering my experience with Jared's Jacky, so I will get to that as well.
 

Force_of_Nature

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For the Brad vs. Ayane Matchup, Alex and I should probably do that one since we've been more or less playing each other all year and I enjoy seeing how much work he puts into this MU to deal with Ayane's BS lol.

Nice work so far on the Matchup thread by the way. It will serve as a solid MU encyclopedia for Ayane.
 

iHajinShinobi

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I will cover a few of the other match ups soon. I'm also going to give my own analysis of the Ayane vs Brad Wong match up while you two do it as well. Brad is pretty damn good, but I am 100% sure that Ayane outshines him everywhere as she always has.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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The MU is definitely favourable to Ayane, but Brad is such a complex character that there's always a lot to account for when fighting him. He always has multiple options at his disposal and requires careful management of his stances and transitions. But yeah, Ayane is one of the best characters to face Brad with. She just has a knack for "Out-BSing" other characters.
 
I need tips on fighting against Helena, having problem with a match that lags. Hope this discussion is for online and offline too. Hope there's help, Thanks :3
 

Force_of_Nature

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Helena is just retarded online, plain and simple, so don't sweat it too much. Your best bet is to space her ass and have her come to you. Also, you want to take every opportunity you can get to interrupt or knock Helena out of her BKO stance to try and halt her offensive pressure. Helena can hurt Ayane by maintaining a near non-stop offense on her. Ayane can hurt Helena by having a superior mid and long ranged game on her.
 
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