DOA5U Ayane Match-Ups Discussion

[Aerospark]

I have a question: How do I fight Gen Fu, Sarah, and Pai as Ayane? They're the three characters that I just brain fart whenever I fight them lmfao.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I have a question: How do I fight Gen Fu, Sarah, and Pai as Ayane? They're the three characters that I just brain fart whenever I fight them lmfao.

For GenFu:

Ayane (10/13/12) vs Genfu (10/11/15)
Some beginner notes here; Genfu's jab is -2 on normal hit and block. His 2P is +0 on hit and -4 on block.
Alright, so this is literally Ayane's only bad match up in this game. It's pretty uphill because if Ayane is making mistakes, Genfu will just rape the shit out of her like she does to anyone else that makes mistakes.
What makes Genfu so strong against Ayane? He can effectively shut down her better tools with his high and mid parries. Moreso his mid parry, as he MUST be quite precise to parry her highs. His fastest mid at 11 frames, 6P, beats everything that isn't her jab. His throw 214T gives him good damage into +10 frame advantage into mix up.
His 236T gives him his 50/50 vortex into mix up. 3P is a powerful high crush, and it's lift stun can wreck any character, as it creates a nasty 50/50 in his favor. Either hold the 3PP follow up or get blown up by a throw or 4P+K into feint stun.
Genfu also does not have issues with range anymore, due to his new and improved (and awesome) 214P dash, and can also follow up with a mid punch. Semi-decent stun on hit, -4 on block and is distance safe. 66P (which is also his running P) is -5 on block and stuns on counter hit. 1P also has some range and hit's low, stuns on counter hit. His mid parries can catch something at range (if timed well) and bring her right back into CQC.
Genfu in general;
Like Ayane, Genfu also has solid stun > launch options. Any stun from a high or mid can lead into his 4P+K feint stun (also a feint stun on counter hit) that will lead into his 64P > 16P shoulder for solid damage. 64P is amazing for a crumple launcher in stun. 3PP crumple stun is extremely nasty, and if you do not stagger escape 3PP, the 33P follow ups are 100% guaranteed into guaranteed high damage. He has a 44P that guard breaks on block and guarantees a BT8P follow up for guaranteed damage.
Now, given all of this, it looks pretty grim for Ayane, for sure. However, this match up is still very winnable for her. I have gotten so comfortable in this match up after playing Sweet Revenge a lot while I was in NorCal. So I'll explain why I no longer view this match up as terrible, and only uphill.
Let's start with CQC (Close Quarters Combat). At the start of the round, Genfu can get in Ayane's face right away, most may feel like "I need to get away!", and panic. For me, it doesn't bother me because I already know both mine and Genfu's options for CQC (especially since I play both characters so well).
When you are playing Ayane, these are your rules you need to abide by with Genfu in CQC:
- Be patient as possible, do not let him put any fear into you just because he's close to you.
- Block, you cannot beat Genfu out anywhere unless frames are changing.
- Hold his mids so he'll know that you are paying attention.
Genfu can only poke you with his 3K string if he's conditioned you to block something. Because his 3K is a 14 frame mid kick, your highs and your mids will counter hit 3K.
I highly advise you to be patient (and in general) in this match up in CQC, because there are 4 things that you REALLY need to recognize in CQC from Genfu;
- His jab is -2 on normal hit AND on block. This actually makes a big difference because every other strike after this are two frames slower. This opens opportunities for your jab, your KK and your mids. And even though Genfu has his parries, he still has to guess which parry to nullify you with, or have a proper read on you.
- Block and just pay close attention to his block string pressure. PPP is -5, PPK is -10, PP2P and PP2K are both low throw punishable. 6PPP is low throw punishable but has incredibly long delays. Do not attempt to strike often under 6P pressure because these delays will counter hit you for either a lift stun (6PP) or crumple stun (6PPP). Just block because Genfu will have to try throwing you eventually. Throw attempts are what you want to counter hit, with either 4P or 4P+K, ideally.
- 3K will be just a 3K, 3KP, or 3KP6P/3KPPP. You want to hold the follow up to 3K, but Genfu knows this so it's a 50/50 on block that works for him. Because he can mix in his throw attempts too. But this is only effective depending on how the player is using 3K. Some will go full force, always finishing the string. Some, a smarter player, will keep you honest with it, with a mix of free cancelling, delay, and some times a full string. 3KPP guard breaks so it is used more often than 3KP6P (which is unsafe). 3KP6P will be used when your back is to a wall, some times.
- 44P guard breaks on block and guarantees a BT8P follow up into guaranteed damage (or his vortex on lighter characters). Launches on all hit status into guaranteed damage (or his vortex) if the 44PP is timed well. This move can be deceptively sneaky when it's mixed in on block, especially when Genfu is applying the vortex. This is probably the only move in CQC I've been more worried about because the rest doesn't actually matter while blocking.
Genfu's strings are very straight forward and unsafe (except for PPP). You block him correctly, then he will have to throw you, which is what you want him to do because you want to score your counter hit and get into Ayane's Comfort Zone (mid range). You should be blocking Genfu well, counter hit his throw attempts (if you can react to throw animations and are not guessing), stay wary that his jab is -2 on hit and block, hold him, and throw punishing his unsafety. If you allow Genfu to get away with unsafety, you are allowing him to win the match.
Proper throw punishment and counter hits will allow you to keep Genfu out. Making your jab pokes, P > BT8P and 6P jab crush counter hits really count will also allow you to score some offensive and a chance to keep Genfu out as well. Once you score a counter hit or a knock down somewhere, you can start your offense and make Genfu the defensive one here. You just have to be careful because you are still in his face and your offense needs to count, before he breaks it with 6P, 3P or a very well timed parry.
Let's talk Mid range battle. Now, in this area, Ayane can be very effective here as long as you aren't being careless and sloppy. Genfu still has a few tools to stop you if you are or you make a mistake somewhere. His parries will bring you right back into CQC and guarantee him follow ups into mix up if you aren't careful. But he HAS to be very precise with those parries to make them effective at range. His 66P and 214P will stop you as well if you get sloppy.
Ayane can keep anyone out when her tools are being applied well, this includes Genfu. BT2P, BT2K are very solid at keep away. So is P4P, infact all of her better range pokes and keep out tools work well here. But keep in mind that you do not HAVE to poke at opponents all the time. Applying good spacing/footsies can make anyone have a hard time getting in on you, especially when you are effectively forcing them to whiff something and make other mistakes.
You can effectively turtle against Genfu, OR, you can force him into a footsies war with you and try to make sure you are winning that war. To keep him on his toes. Because at this point, the player with the most patience is the one winning that war. But Ayane has the better range tools on her side, you just have to make sure to apply them properly.
After getting solid experience against Sweet Revenge, and myself understanding this character well, I have not had issues with any other Genfu in this match up. And I'm a little TOO comfortable in this match up now.
I still believe it to be 4-6 in Genfu's favor because his advantages do matter here, however, it is not super terrible. It is definiely winnable when you are paying attention.

With GenFu you have to be pretty patient with fighting him, especially in close. Punish 3PP, H+K and FC 3P whenever you block them to try to discourage their use. Try to fight GenFu at range since he can be a little more predictable that way (Look out for 214PP, 66P, and possibly 3KP & 2H+K for example). GenFu's extremely proficient at punishing sloppiness and impatience (A little too well IMHO), so you'll need to be more patient to beat him. On the bright side, he's likely the dumbest opponent you'll have to face.

I don't know Sarah as well, but for Pai, zone her out as much as you can. She's pretty much no threat to Ayane at range (Just duck her running 6K on reaction), and her ranged lows can start to become see-able after a while. Your objective is to not let her get her offense started on you by trying to lock you down with her quick i9/i11/i12 pokes or sneaky lows. Unlike pretty much any other character on the roster, Pai almost practically relies on CB's for her serious damage (though she can get CB's off of SDSs). Ayane can equalize Pai's damage just from stun launches. Pai relies a lot on trying to fluster her opponent continuously with relentless pressure mix-ups into to either launches, CB's or resets. Don't let this pressure start. I think this MU is 6-4 Ayane and seems to be based a fair bit on how much the opponent knows Pai's abilities. As for Sarah, I actually think the MU may be in Ayane's favour along with being one of Sarah's worst MU's due to her ability to deal with all of Sarah's highs. Know her frames and pick your spots carefully. Sarah hates hi-crushes more than others.

Hope this helps!

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Moved posts over to the Match Up Discussion Thread.

Anyway, about Sarah; i10/i11/i12 (High/Mid/Low)

What makes her very dangerous in CQC are the many ways she can set up frame traps to keep up her pressure on block. Her jab is +1 on block, so never strike retaliate after blocking it unless you know Sarah is going to throw you. Otherwise the usual P > 6P frame trap (or the very sneaky P < 44P frame trap) is just going to counter hit you, but if you know Sarah will do that, then hold the 6P mid punch (however that is difficult to hold online). Her 2P is +0 on neutral hit as well, and is i12 frames

Also, her P > Neutral throw tick throw set up is unseeable, her neutral throw is coming out at i4 frames because of the +1 from the jab. So you're either guessing or you have a good read on the Sarah player to strike that.

On block;

P = +1
P+K = +1
3PK = +3
4K = +3
8K = +2
4P+K = +3
PPP6 = +2
33H+KK = +4 (Guard break)

--are a few things to keep a lookout for on block. 3PK are all highs, so you'll have to get used to their strike animations in order to crush it in time, or on reaction. 4K, 8K, and 4P+K are all mid kicks, so is P+K but it is also a high/mid strike sabaki after initial start up of P+K, and it tracks. 33H+KK is a high kick to mid kick, the mid tracks and guard breaks, leaving Sarah at +4. PPP6 is +2 on neutral hit and on block for her, and it can also go into a sabaki if she moves backward after the dash, which will sabaki both high and mid punches.

This kind of sabaki loses to kicks though, so I would either just do 4K or KK if I know Sarah will use that sabaki after dashing. But another good way to make Sarah very manageable is to make yourself familiar with her string variation. Often times that's what throw players off, because they don't know her strings very well, so she'll seem very overwhelming. Sarah has lots of ways to open you up, and if you don't know her strings, it's hard to block her.

Learn her string variants, and remember where her + frames are on block, and be patient in CQC. Make use of Ayane's hi crushes if you've realized Sarah is going high a lot. Ayane can fight Sarah up close, but having that knowledge of her strings and frame advantage do play a pretty big role to keep the match up favorable for Ayane up close. Sarah needs her highs.

But the way this match really works for Ayane especially during the range game. Keep Sarah out well with good spacing and she'll have a hard time fighting, because she really lacks any good range tools. She would have to YOLO run in, or take chances using 66K, 2K, 2H+K, 33H+KK and the like, which are risky for her because if they whiff in strike range, she's in trouble. Sarah is not that kind of character to have good keepout tools or a solid range game.

This should help if you need a visual

 

[Ana]

Need some help against Jann Lee

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Jannlee is i10/i11/i13 (High/Mid/Low)

Jannlee's got very solid strike speed overall, especially in CQC. Jab is +0 on neutral hit, -1 on block, his 2P low is -1 on neutral hit, so that alone "kind of" puts him in a bad spot if it hits (referring to his 2P). Because his neutral becomes 1 frame slower, so Ayane's jab beat his faster neutral poking with ease. And he cannot necessarily opt for his 6K mid kick because it's going to be i14 frames after the -1 (6K is initially i13 frames), but that doesn't mean some Jannlee players won't try, but they are getting counter hit anyway.

So, Jann will usually have to commit to jab or his 6P in this case, or another 2P low (he has no good hi crushes). If Jannlee has a tendency to opt for his 6P mid punch so often during the neutral CQC, start holding it (I'll always advance mid punch hold it just to let the Jann player know I've got that read on them, and will dish out a lot of damage and vortex them for it). You don't really want to use Ayane's mids in the neutral CQC in this match up because of Jann's speed, you really want to stick to the jab, neutral K during his -1, and at times, our 2P low. Our mids can come into play once Jannlee is at a bigger frame disadvantage (-3 or more) because then he'll have to respect them.

One of Jannlee's more abusable tools (but rightly so) is his Dragon Gunner. It is a low Offensive Hold (OH) at 23 frames, meaning it connects low at your legs, so you'll have to crouch in order to avoid it. If you do, then you can punish him by using a standing throw (anywhere from i5 to i12 frames but you cannot be slow about it).

If Dragon Gunner does connect, however, he gets a free 50/50 mix up and the most typical way of starting the mix up is to do 66H+K4, which is a high kick into Dragon Stance, a stance he has quite a few strike options in, including a Critical Burst.

Dragon Stance Strikes (DS = Dragon Stance)

DS jab = +7 neutral | +30 threshold | -3 on block
DS 6P mid = +5 neutral | +25 threshold | - 12 on block
DS K mid = +6 neutral | +37 threshold | -11 on block
DS 6K mid = Knock back on hit | -3 on block
DS P+K CB mid P = +20 neutral | +70 threshold (cannot SE) | -8 on block
DS 6P+K high = +0 on neutral | +27 threshold | -21 on block

Jannlee also has good range;

66K - i17 frame mid kick, -4 on block, knock down on hit, whiff punishment.
6PK - i11 mid punch, same deal as 66K.
3K - i14 frame mid kick with follow ups which are 3KK (mid/high) and 3K4KP (mid/mid/high), the high punch being unsafe. 3K4K is good for keep out.
K - i12 frame high kick with follow ups which are KKK (high/high/high) and K4KP (high/mid/high). K4KP is the same deal as 3K4KP.
7K - i14 frame high kick, launches on counter hit and threshold, good counter hit fishing tool. -15 on block, punishable.
9P - i14 frame high punch, decent range on it and can go straight into Dragon Stance which is strong during counter hits. -1 on block, +3 on neutral hit, +33 on counter hit and threshold.
4K - i14 frame mid kick with delayable follow ups which 4KKP (mid/high/high). String is unsafe on block, punishable.
6H+K - i15 frame high kick, unsafe as a standalone strike. But it has access to Dragon Stance with 6H+K4, so it's not wise to throw it on block.
4P - i16 frame mid punch, 4PPP is also a 5 in 1 on counter hit so you cannot hold this string at all unless Jannlee delays it or cancels into Dragon Stance with 4PP4. Decent footsies and keep out tool.
1P (hi crush), 1K, 2K and 2H+K lows.

Majority of Jannlee players will opt for 66K, 6PK, 3K4K and K4K during the range game, since they are good range pokes and keep out tools (but very derpy). With the exception of K4K, all of these are mid kicks (well, the second kick in 6PK and K4K are mid kicks as well) so if you know the Jann player has a tendency to lean towards these pokes often, you can anticipate them with mid kick holds.

Jann's that are a little more aware, or smarter, will use the above quad, but also utilize more of his range tools as well. Like 4P, his lows, 6H+K, 4K, 9P, 7K, etc. Jannlee's keepout is very good, but he has problems when he has to move forward during the range game, so it is definitely something you want to use to your advantage often. I will advise not to use any rolling in this match at range unless you've actually conditioned Jannlee well enough at range not to expect any a rolling 6H+P throw. Either way, do not even rely on rolling, it's an easy way to get bopped.

The usual 3P, 3H+K, BT2K, BT3KK lows, 4K whiff punishment, 66KK4/BTPP6KK4 (used sparringly), neutral K, 3K/3KK, and good footsies are normally enough to win the range game versus most Jannlee players. Ayane has better range tools than Jannlee so he'll have problems fighting her at range if the Ayane player makes sufficient use of her range tools. But that's not necessarily saying it's easy, either. Ayane will always have to be smart about applying the range for it to be as effective as it can be.

Summary; In CQC, be patient and respect Jann's faster neutral poke speed by not opting for your mids during light negatives (-1) and neutral frames, use your jab, K, good blocking and holds on reads. Remember that P >BT8P is a staple and your best friend midscreen, and in any match up. Punish his unsafety and keep an eye out on Dragon Gunner set ups. Play carefully during the range wars and be sure to bait him out as often as you can in order to punish his 66K and 3K4K/K4K variants.

 

[Ana]

Thank You so much^^

 

[iHajinShinobi]

No problem.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Great write-up @iHajinShinobi

Any tips for Hayate ? This guy's a cunt xD.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

When I get time, I'll edit this post with the Hayate match up. Just got back from work, tired.

 

[Tenryuga]

Great write-up @iHajinShinobi

Any tips for Hayate ? This guy's a cunt xD.

Use K/KK in both range and CQC. Unless the Hayate player is striking with faster pokes or crushes in CQC or is making a preemptive strike at range K/KK will almost always result in a counterhit when he tries something. Especially 66P or 3H+K.

In close range if you use K Hayate has to respect you because you make it harder to use his fastest and most reliable CH stun: 6P. His CQC composes of P strings, 6P and 2P. Hayate will not 3K you in CQC until he picks up advantage due to its speed.

Another thing to note is everything Hayate does in CQC must be committed to. His 6P is -12 on block, and all his P strings other than P and PP are massively disadvantageous on block. All of this means he is not capable of much free cancel offense into strikes. He will more often try to tick throw you when cancelling his P strings because his throws grant him great rewards and are well worth the risk.

Also make sure that when Hayate does 6PK you neutral throw or respond with a strike preferably a tracking mid strike. Keep high damaging throws available but don't use them often. Even if your neutral throw gets broken you indicate to the Hayate player that he has to be prepared to break neutral grabs in addition to other forms of defense.

If you only respond specific types (keyword types and not type) of ways (Neutral throwing 24/7, 7i grabbing 24/7, tracking mids 24/7, linear pokes 24/7 etc) to Hayate's -7 he has ways to blow you up for that and turn what should clearly be a disadvantageous situation into an advantageous one. So mix up all of your retaliation options when he does this. This is just general anti-Hayate information.

EDIT: One last thing. Be careful with mid holds in this MU. CH 6P into Hi counter Nakiryu is 43% damage exactly. So yeah watch out.

That's all I have for you. I'll leave the strategy guide to Hajin lolol.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Lol, That's a very solid write-up Ten, you don't leave much for iHajin xD! Hayate's one of the biggest thorns in Ayane's side. Dunno what space to fight him at. It feels like the further away I am, the more of a nuisance he potentially becomes, and Ayane doesn't exactly dominate him in close range.

 

[Tenryuga]

Lol, That's a very solid write-up Ten, you don't leave much for iHajin xD! Hayate's one of the biggest thorns in Ayane's side. Dunno what space to fight him at. It feels like the further away I am, the more of a nuisance he potentially becomes, and Ayane doesn't exactly dominate him in close range.

Lol nah this is the part where @iHajinShinobi comes in. I will say though Hayate can't do anything to Ayane at long range unless she is spinning like a fool. Foolish spinning = free 3H+K. Masterful spinning = Whiff punished 3H+K.

 

[Brute]

Hayate's one of the biggest thorns in Ayane's side. Dunno what space to fight him at. It feels like the further away I am, the more of a nuisance he potentially becomes, and Ayane doesn't exactly dominate him in close range.

Imagine how the Busa folk feel.

Still waiting until you guys get around to Ryu. Not trying to rush you or anything because I realize there's an entire roster to cover and Hayabusa isn't exactly at the top of the priority list, but I'd still love to hear how you approach the MU.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Don't worry, Ayane players don't mind Ryu. He seems cool compared to Hayate.

I think it's Hayate's job to annoy the hell out of the other ninjas lol. Why can't there be more Ein players than Hayate players?

I can also cover the Eliot MU with StrikerSashi, but it's kinda LOL for Ayane from what I've seen so far.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Hayate is i10/i12/i14 (High/Mid/Low)

His jab is -1 on neutral hit and -2 on block, and his 2P low is +0 on neutral hit. In CQC, his bigger threats in this match up are his 6P and 8P+KP/2P+KP. 6P is his only i12 frame mid, however, but 8P+K is his special step that gets around linearity and can punish it with the mid punch follow up for a stun (mindful Hayate players will use this step correctly though). So Ayane's neutral K plays a factor in this match up for two reasons; it stops his 8P+K step and counter hits his 6P, essentially killing two birds with one stone.

Once you make Hayate realize you have that option select in neutral CQC, the Hayate player may resort to jabs (and strings), 1P (hi crush), 1K (hi crush), or more 2P usage to shake things up. If this is to happen, take this as an opportunity to see where Hayate's next retaliation is going to be, and how often it'll be.

1P is +16 on counter hit, but -7 on neutral hit. If it hits on neutral, you have lots of retaliation at your disposal, 66KK4 becomes a thing after that -7 on free cancel. But 1P has follow ups, 1PP (low P/mid P) and 1PK (low P/low K).

1K is a single mid kick strike that has crouching properties, so Hayate is going underneath highs, so it is a hi crush. +3 on neutral hit, so do not strike retaliate after that hit confirm. +23 on counter hit and threshold.

Hayate's strings are just decent on block for delay and free cancel. IMO his best two are PP6[P] and PP2KP. PP6[P] is a guard break and leaves him at +3, he also has PPP[P] and has the same guard break for the +3 so be mindful for full string into guard break. Once you're used to seeing that guard break animation often, you can strike retaliate on reaction, however.

PP2KP has a solid delay after the PP2K, it's pretty hard to tell if Hayate is going to do the mid punch or a throw, the low sweep is not that difficult to see though (although you're probably going to get hit with it online anyway). He can cancel into the wind dash as well by doing PP2K6P+K, but once you're used to seeing it, you can 4P him on reaction.

Here's Hayate's P and PP strings so no one's in the dark about them.

On block;

PPPP is -11 (HHMM)
PPP[P] is +3 (HHMM)
PP6PP is -11 (HHMM)
PP6PK is -7(HHMM)
PP6[P] is +3(HHM)
PP6[P]66 is -42 (HH) in neutral, not good on block at all. Only during okizeme and threshold mix up. You can BT6P him if he does it on block.
PPP[P]66 is the same deal as PP6[P]66. (HHM)

PP2K2K is -15 (HHLL)
PP2KP is -11 (HHLM)
PKK is -13 (HHH) and you can strike retaliate with a low inbetween it.
PPKK is -4 (HHHM) but has does not jail at all, so you can hold the high kick or mid kick ender.

Hayate at range is the where the fight actually is, if I'm to be honest. Ayane can fight Hayate at range very well, and so can he. But Ayane has a little more than he does for range. The wide array of Integrated Movement and other certain tools make things difficult for him to approach. Smart use of Haijin Dash/fients and spins will always make it difficult for anyone to get in. But for Hayate, he is looking for a reason to utilize the following;

66P, 3H+K, 214P, 236P, 236K, and 3K.

66P is very self-explanatory, it's what he has to go in with head on and the damage on it is solid (25). 66P has follow ups as well, 66PP can be done or it can be charged for +3 on block (something I was caught off guard by against Shade Swifteye at SCR earlier this year). 66P2K goes into a low sweep. 66PK goes into a mid kick, unsafe it blocked.

3H+K is always another Bread n' Butter ranged get in tool for Hayate since it's so easy to put on the screen. Has a low sweep follow up, but the mid punch shoulder cannot be held if the low sweep is hit confirmed, so it is a natural combo. 3H+K has no delayable frames into the low sweep, however, so if Hayate free cancels, you can low throw him on reaction.

3K is i14 frames and does 25 damage, it's also +1 on neutral hit but -3 on block, ideal at close-mid range.

236K is a high kick that's solid for whiff punishment and a get in tool at the amount of distance. +1 on block as well

236P is his best whiff punishment, 40 damage and knock down.

214P is there to catch your sloppy footwork.

My personal favorites for Hayate at range however, are his PP6[P] and 9P[P]. Both are solid at their respect ranges for knockdown or +3 guard break. So if Hayate is jabbing or doing 9P at ranges, beware of the strike range. Not a lot of Hayate players use these two this way though.

Hayate can feint with his wind dash as well but he really has to range that out correctly, otherwise he can get slapped for it.

The fight at range is basically going to be a question of how well you can keep Hayate out, and how well you can maintain the neutral game at range. Ayane's K can stuff a lot of his high and mid strike approaches, due to i12 frame speed and that 27 neutral damage (something I didn't utilize very well at SCR vs Shade but I've reviewed those sets and am completely aware of how solid it is in this match up). But in order to do that, you have to be pretty masterful with neutral K at range because it does leave your back exposed. Awful whiffing gets you whiff punished, 3H+K can do the same thing.

K, K(delay)K, 3K, 3K(delay)K, 3P, BTPP, BTPK, BT2P, BT2K, BT6K, BT3K/BT3KK, BT4H+K, PPK, PPK(delay)K, PP6P, 6PK, 2P and occasional (but well ranged) 66KK4 are all the tools you'll be utilizing at range in this match up. But you have to pick and choose which is best against said player and the situation.

Your whiff punishment never changes, it's going to be the usual 4K, 236K, BT6P, 3H+K, 1P+K K, 1P+K P, etc. Whenever Hayate makes a bad whiff, punish it, you want to do your best not to let bad whiffs slip by because you want every opportunity to do damage.

Summary; P > BT8P is always your best friend in any match up. Do not let Hayate control the CQC with his 6P, if he jab retaliates a lot, make good use of your hi crushes. Be careful at range, Ayane may have a little more than Hayate but that does not imply you can be reckless or get sloppy. Stay patient, punish his mistakes while ensuring you keep your own to a minimum. Do not let him utilize his throws a lot, or you'll lose.

All in all, it is a pretty fair match up.

 

[Tenryuga]

My personal favorites for Hayate at range however, are his PP6[P] and 9P[P]. Both are solid at their respect ranges for knockdown or +3 guard break. So if Hayate is jabbing or doing 9P at ranges, beware of the strike range. Not a lot of Hayate players use these two this way though.

Be especially wary of these @Force_of_Nature. The ranges on the followup rival his 66P. To be more precise 9P charge outranges his 66P very slightly and PP6[P] is shorter ranged but you must take into account that both PP and 9P are moving Hayate forward in addition to his charged hit.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Amazing write-up @iHajinShinobi, you just gotta outdo @Tenryuga dont'cha? Very nicely done.

Hayate's PP6[P], 9P[P] along with 66P are annoying as hell. 3H+K~KP or just 3H+K actually become a liability offline because of how much easier it is to deal with if you're mindful due to the lack of mix-up opportunity compared to his other ranged options. I noticed that Hayates try to jab me when I try to stuff 6P or 2P+KP with KK (though this is where 2P usually comes into play). PP2KP is another irritating string but I think a strategy I may attempt is to try and discourage his jabbing through hi-crushing. Fighting in close definitely isn't terrible since Hayate's lows are kinda bad and the Expert Mid P Hold can discourage 6P & 2P+KP. Spacing him properly seems to be the challenge. Gotta find that range to properly deal with his ranged moves. Anyways great write-up guys, and I think these are definitely worthy of being added to the Match-Up thread.

I'll try and add the LeiFang MU soon since I've been putting it off too much since StrikerSashi switched to Eliot.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I already added the Hayate and other previously discussed match ups to the listing. I'll get around to the Leifang match up as well since I've a ton of experience vs Nykko and Requiem. So it'll be good if we both pitch in what we know about it.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Yeah, LeiFang is someone that should definitely be covered since we got the cun... um Hayate out of the way! Sashi has a pretty interesting perspective on her.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Ayane (i10/i13/i12) vs. Momiji (i10/i12/i12)

Some ninja-on-ninja action! (Well ninja-on-shrine maiden) Similar to the Hayate MU, the Momiji MU will be mostly fought around mid-long range due to both characters excellent ranged attacks and pokes. Another similarity is that these characters also have excellent options in close too.

Here's a rundown of what Momiji may be using in close

P = i10/ -2 on block
-> PP = ~i8/ -6 on block
KK = i12/ -6 on block (Very delayable)
H+K = i12/ -7 on block (Tracking, Unsafe)
6P = i12/ -12 on block
-> 6PK = ~i16/ - 14 on block (Very delayable, Tech jump)
-> 6PP = ~i22/ -11 on block (Very delayable, Unsafe)
3K = i14/ -8 on block
-> 3KP = ~i17/ -11 on block (Very delayable, Tracking)
4P = i14/ -5 on block (Tracking)
2P = i12/ -5 on block
1P = i17/ -10 on block (Tracking)
-> 1PP = ~i22/ -13 on block (Tracking, Unsafe)
-> 1P2K = ~i23/ -15 on block (Very delayable, Tracking, Unsafe)
3P = i13/ -9 on block
-> 3PP = ~i20/ -3 on block (Very delayable)
7K = i12/ -14 on block (-11 on block at tip, Tech jump)

In close range, Momiji has a very slight advantage thanks to her i12 Mid P. It also helps that she has an i12 Low P and an i12 tracking high like Ayane does (Though Ayane's KK is stronger than Momiji's H+K). As a result you're going to be using P's, 2P's and KK's in this MU regularly from neutral. Punish any 6PP's and use Ayane's Expert Mid P Holds to discourage use of Momiji's 6P so that you can attempt to use your own 6P's (and 6K's) mids in return. Generally close range combat isn't a problem but it's a good rule of thumb to be mindful of the i12 mids 6P & 7K. PP8 & 3KP8 shenanigans can also be a nuisance though PP8~ free cancel and PP8P~ tend to be more common than PP8K (Since that leads into the Tenku Double Jump that is easy to deal with on block if you can fuzzy). PP8P, PP8PP PP8PK are all unsafe with the first two strings ending in High P's (The third string ender is a Mid K launcher). Along with PP8, 3KP8, etc., take heed of 9P random single jumps. I usually just block single or double jump attempts and try to spot a free cancel or a throw attempt (9P~Free cancel~Throw is very good). Momiji's 2P is also +0 on NH like Ayane's 2P but has slightly less range.

Momiji at Mid Range

KK = i12/ -6 on block (Very delayable)
3K = i14/ -8 on block
-> 3KP = ~i17/ -11 on block (Very delayable, Tracking)
4K = i15/ -5 on block
2H+K = i23/ -14 on block (-13 on block at tip, Tracking, Unsafe in close)
44K = i18/ -3 on block
66P = i15/ -5 on block, follow-up is -12 on block (Throw 66PP on block please!)

Majority of Momiji's ranged pokes are safe on block (actually most of the shit she has is safe on block) so don't bother trying to throw punish anything unless the player plays like a random online Momiji that just chuck out 66PP or 66K (In that case throw them to your heart's content!). Try to stay just out of Momiji's poke range and attempt to whiff punish her with 3PP, 4K, 3H+K. You could try 4H+K or 236K (if there is an environmental impact near such as a cliff knockdown) if you're feeling frisky but I don't recommend it regularly.

Momiji at Long Range

66P = i15/ -5 on block
Running H+K = i20/+1 on block

At range, Momiji's love to use Running H+K to get in for the +1 frame advantage. Thwart this with a nice high-crush such as 4P or 1P~. For 66P you'll have to be more careful but just blocking it is fine for the most part (There's also Ayane's Expert Mid P hold to discourage 66P or 66PP). Watch out also for random 9P's too.

Some of Momiji's Whiff Punishers

66PP (Tracking)
6H+K
236P (Tracking)
66K
9K (Safe)

Beware of these moves on CH because you're going for a ride if hit. Most are throw punishable and 9K is a high. Make sure that Ayane is the one doing the punishing . For dealing with Tenku stance, it's best to try and fuzzy guard the options on block (unless you know what the opponent may attempt reducing it to a 50/50). On hit, SE helps to create distance between you and the opponent.

The Ayane/Momiji MU is interesting because both characters excel at all ranges. Overall I'd say it's 5:5, though some people may think it's 6:4 in Ayane's favour due to her superior crushes, mix-ups and ranged tools. However, Momiji's safety, awesome pokes and good whiff punishers equalize the MU. Discouraging Momiji's 6P in close, making her range pokes whiff and punishing any unsafety or sloppiness is the key to victory.