DOA5U Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate Arcade ver. 1.04 change log

[UncleKitchener]

wait till you get your hands on the game before making any assumptions.

Also, you need to understand that a lot of what you're reading is still in the location test stage... meaning .. it is not final.

if you see something you dont like ... voice it to TN .. they are reading.

I get your point, and I did just tell them about it, but what I keep hearing has made me lose my confidence with the team right now.

Also, this is kind of an old tool, so I don't think I'm making any assumptions and it's really not difficult testing this out in practice mode with +15 in mind after a T/OH or whatever.

But whatever, I don't care about that right now. I'm starting to look at the bigger picture.

I'm assuming the nerf to Bass' BT T is a direct result of the input change on WR P+K. Now that it's 4P+K as well as having better frames and much higher damage, it'll likely be used more often. As it's used more often, he'll be in BT more, and since that hit causes a deep stun on hit, he can choose to follow it up with 7K or 4K without fearing a SE.

I'm not sure - I mean, I'm not TN or anything - but that's the only reasonable explanation I could come up with.

Na, not really. The move is slow and even with the new input, it's still the same thing. The frame trap is the same in the current version because you can go for the same mix-up, except that it's slightly less risky on block where you have to either go for the follow-up or something else.

He has better and faster moves for BT transition like 66K imo (6P+K in stun), but it's still a very risky tactic to just go into BT in the first place with or without frame advantage, especially if you have bad habits.

 

[just_me]

Err... there are more than enough "Character wishlists", aren't there?
Resources are available... unless "they are reading" refers to Twitter exclusively... which is bad since any valid suggestions get swamped in costume and hairstyle requests... and actual balance ideas that could make the game even worse

Anyway:
Momiji:

• leave as is... or since it's odd that the move is worse on NH than on block... make it +1 on Hit
• Tenku K: leave as is, or change to mid K (and keep the -2, if necessary)
• Tenku P: Come on... make it at least Neutral on Block!

My wishlist:

• Increase Izuna Dmg
• add standing input for running (maybe reduce range)
• no wallsplat for (well I only care about midair hits though)
• some string "merging" , , etc. oh and the SDS from her P String as e.g.
• they can also pick anything from here

Rachel:

• Fix FT Kick whiffing issues of Stomp
• revert startup on stomp (leave recovery as is... should still be negative to minor advantage in most cases)

well there's more, but I think making her somewhat unique tool not completely useless might be a step in the right direction

 

[StrikerSashi]

Speaking of more negative on hit than on block, I think Kokoro's 2K is that way too so maybe they like stuff like that.

 

[TRI Mike]

Changes are very minor and they all seem to make perfect sense.

About the life changes ... I dont know about you guys but you seem to be playing a totally different game ... the game's damage is more than fine at 300 and the rounds end really quick. Even Matt agreed when he came to Japan. Theres no need for any damage reduction.

Seriously man, I don't mean to start an argument here or anything like that and I actually appreciate what you've done and are doing for the community but there's an issue here that other players have brought to the table where no matter what TN does, you say it's amazing and makes perfect sense. I seriously believe I need to say it.

More than half of those changes in 1.04 are pointless and nerf the good things characters have. Just like you, I've been following the game ever since the very first trailer came out and Rikuto invited me here and I seem to remember TN saying the selling points gameplay-wise were new mechanics and guaranteed damage. But ever since vanilla, every single patch seems to take those away, and my character, Tina, is definitely one of the fighters that have been suffering the most because of it. If you don't believe me, go take a look at the Ultimate changes thread I made in her sub forum and then sit down in training mode in both versions and tell me what am I supposed to do with Tina in 5U other than stun and pray for a hold to hi-counter throw (aka play DOA4).

Matches aren't ending quickly in Ultimate, I'm tired of looking at fights of 99 seconds end in Time Out because it feels like a sponge fight where nothing hurts. 300 life makes the game feel like garbage and I've already explained why a lot of times here and the vast majority of the players who tested 240 after reading my posts said I was right. They not only raised life, but nerfed the overall damage of strikes so matches are extremely slow. Default setting don't feel like a DOA game at all.

I honestly don't see how nerfing Kokoro like that makes "perfect sense" when she wasn't that good to begin with. Same with Hitomi. What the hell man¿ Is TN even listening to us¿ Look at Tina's changes, she seems buffed right¿ well too bad none of those buffs even come close to fixing the real issues she has. Then go look at Gen Fu, quite possibly the best character in the game and they don't touch him. That doesn't look like balance at all.

I love the frachise just as much as you do but being a fanboy and applauding TN even when they make shitty decisions is not gonna benefit the game in any way. If at the end of the day you're right, I'll be the first one to say "I'm sorry COW you were right" but I honestly don't believe it right now. You have contacts, help me make them understand what's wrong with Tina!

 

[crapoZK]

Seriously man, I don't mean to start an argument here or anything like that and I actually.... Tina Blah

It's not finished. It's still in Roketesto (Location test) phase. This means we can give feedback at any point between now and February. They could change it. I'm not trying to start any conflict between you and me, but we just need to see how it plays and hear feedback from the JP players before we can start complaining.

 

[Malfury]

Just make all the characters more solid! Most of the suggestions on these boards aren't even really game breaking or breaking the intentions of the developers. Like giving Kokoro more tracking for example. What is so wrong about that? Instead of just nerfing characters that have good moves, make everyone's moves better instead.

 

[TRI Mike]

Yeah but I don't see the point. Since late september I've been sharing what I and the rest of the Tina players here think about what she lacks and though Shimbori himselft talked to me about it once over Twitter, she's not getting any positive, realistic change.

For example: Look at the 4P+K change, damage was increased from 35 to 42. That means that the extra seven points are only 2% of the life bar (with default settings). Still, the move does NOT guarantee a ground throw at close range how it did in vanilla, so she's gonna deal seven extra points (2% life) and the opponent will tech roll and leave Tina at negative frames when she landed a ground slam. The result is that Tina will quite possibly end up stunned, launched or thrown. The real fix was to leave damage the same but make the move guarantee a ground throw, which is 20 points of damage (which isn't much at default, but can turn the tide of a fight in 240). Team Ninja did it backwards

Just like that specific one, I've already noticed others. These 1.04 changes don't seem very logical to me honestly.

 

[Dr Snipe]

Tina was slightly buffed, but they didn't actually change any of her actual issues like lack of good unholdables, guaranteed ground throws, etc.

Seriously you guys.

I will take increased body slash damge. I also would have liked the old guaranteed ground throw to return. But I do nail that move alot so more damage is good.

 

[FakeSypha]

To get all those guaranteed ground throws setups TN will have to revert the ground game to vanilla DOA5, and I personally don't see them doing that... sadly.

 

[Dr Snipe]

To get all those guaranteed ground throws setups TN will have to revert the ground game to vanilla DOA5, and I personally don't see them doing that... sadly.

It was just body splash gives you a guaranteed ground grab that's it.

 

[Nereus]

They ALL seem to make PERFECT sense? Really?

I don't discredit you, specially since I got no credit here or anywhere, but that just seems improbable. I'm not taking you up on semantics though. It is one thing for Ein to have general damage buffs in a great quantity of his moves. It is another, for example, to have Jacky:

• 2_3P: Damage reduced from 20 to 19.
• 6K: Damage increased from 20 to 21.

Or Rachel's stomp getting a 3 in damage increase, being that there are no guaranteed setups for it (as far as I'm aware).

Like... What? Does this accomplish anything? (seriously, I'm asking.)

Obviously, I'm just taking these two moves; he had other changes, other damage buffs that were more significant than the ones I picked, I acknowledge that, but they are mostly so marginal it is hard to believe they make a difference.
In general, I agree if TRI Mike and Berzerk!. Instead of doing these microscopic damage buffs, do something with the overall life value. I do believe the standard to be too high, and for my own enjoyment will always play the game in 240. But then again, maybe this qualifies as "playing a different game" than you.

I'm not b*tching about a slight buff, I just wanted to understand what sprung some of these changes. Some were definitely called for. Some... well, weren't.
I don't think this is the worst patch ever for anything, but a good chunk of it looks like "stuff". Like: "let's move some numbers around". I will give it that I'm looking forward to the hitbox adjustments and increased speed in crouch blocking. Some good stuff here, some good buffs for characters that could definitely use them. Interesting adjustments to frame data as well. Any changes in the area of -8 and -5 are always important. Not everything is bad, but not everything is good and happy either.

If you can spare the time, enlighten us about what these changes actually mean in play, and since you had first hand experience.

is a 15f launcher on counter hit that also crushes mids. thats why its getting a 1p deduction.

 

[FakeSypha]

It was just body splash gives you a guaranteed ground grab that's it.

I wasn't referring to Tina only.

 

[deathofaninja]

To the people complaining about the "minor" damage buffs, all I have to say is every point of health counts. I'm sick of barely losing matches, and I appreciate any damage increase.

 

[Zeo]

If this is all subject to change... there definitely may still be hope for Ein... gotta get some words out.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Keep raging people. I've been playing ver.1.04 for 2 days straight and yes the changes are very minor for the most part, barely noticeable in fact.

Safety added for many moves is very much welcome. the damage buffs are welcome.

Nerfing something as retarded as hitomi's 236K ender is very much welcomed. For slower grapple characters this gives them a better fighting chance.

As for other nerfs .. you cant just get only buffs or the character would turn way too OP. With some buffs some nerfs had to happen.. and yes it makes sense.

As I said before, the Bass BT throw will remain intact as per Shimbori.

Reducing the string delay for alpha for the K strings makes perfect sense and makes it less threatening and forces the alpha player to commit more, especially since the string is a reterded high mid high mid. also the increase in the frames of her throw is also welcomed. that shit is 149 dmg on HCT... she shouldnt be able to land it so easily in the first place. especially since the mixup can even be between that and 3 different CBs

Everything Ein got was a fucking buff and now his overall DMG fit well with the rest. and yes that is noticable. Same for Jacky, nerfing his 6P frames was necessary as now with the damage buff it makes the 6P spamming slightly less, but its not like Jacky players stop at 6P anyway.

Christies changes dont changes her overall gameplan except for maybe the GB advantage loss, which is something not really intended in her design in the first place.

Also, saying the complaints about Kokoro are coming from a community that says that she is week because you can sidestep her.. You guys look down on the Japanese players and their opinions and always think they're wrong. Well Matt and I went there and let me tell you that Kokoro is NOT weak. In fact she can be stupidly strong at some points. the fact that everything she has gives her CB potential and every other option is almost just as rewarding is Something not to be taken lightly. but I guess me saying that will only stir up more rage ... If you don't like what I'm saying ask @Mr. Wah

Eliot's changes were a mixed bag. but 4K became far more useful because it can now be thrown out a bit more safely. and Thats great since its a sidestep killer. You guys, including my self in the past, say that Eliot is weak and garbage. I urge whoever can to come to Japan and fight Ley's Eliot to just try and beat him. Even the guy that won last weeks tourney (Katsuninken) says that he can't beat him. After making the combo video, I also realized how very stupidly strong Eliot can be and how much damage he can dish out from doing so little. which made me realize something: The game is still very young and players have not yet discovered the full potential of even their own characters. Also, despite all the talk and raging, a lot of you don't do frame data research and don;t optimize on the punish either. (I bet that comment is gonna make some people angry)

Oh and Lisa's wiffed 6P4P got fixed .. (you're all welcome by the way)

As I said, Keep complaining. They are reading.
But also, do your damn research.

The games damage reduction would eliminate a big part of what it is now. the buffed damage characters needed it in the CURRENT damage setting.
Whether you like what I say or not, fact still remains: I've tried it and will continue to try it today and I think its really good.

Also, the change log is NOT final and subject to change. It was merely released so that players can test things out at the arcade.

Have a nice day.

 

[David Gregg]

Eliot's changes were a mixed bag. but 4K became far more useful because it can now be thrown out a bit more safely. and Thats great since its a sidestep killer. You guys, including my self in the past, say that Eliot is weak and garbage. I urge whoever can to come to Japan and fight Ley's Eliot to just try and beat him. Even the guy that won last weeks tourney (Katsuninken) says that he can't beat him. After making the combo video, I also realized how very stupidly strong Eliot can be and how much damage he can dish out from doing so little.

Agreed. He may not be like his stronger vanilla version (compared to his 5U...don't know about 5UA) but he definitely gets bashed by players who don't understand his potential.

One quick question though on the 6P+K bound. Have you tried using it yet after H+K? The typical vanilla combo was H+K, 6P+K (put opponent in a stun) and then continue combo from there. The word "bound" makes me think this one is different and I'm wondering how high the opponent bounces and what you could finish it with (especially concerned since the "bound" for 33P2P is basically useless).

Thanks Emperor!

 

[UncleKitchener]

Since my character will probably never be played by anyone competent in the location tests, I will just barrage TN twitter like a spastic because I don't see this being fixed any other way other than with bitching.

Fuzzy guarding or mid-string hold buffering can take far enough until you just hit a roadblock.

 

[Batcommander]

As I said before, the Bass BT throw will remain intact as per Shimbori.

are you referring to the frame advantage nerf or are you saying the BT throw will remain a throw and not be returned to an OH?

 

[RoboJoe]

He means the frame advantage.

 

[Batcommander]

He means the frame advantage.

Thank you for clarifying. We were talking in the bass thread that it might be returned to an OH, which is why i was asking.