Dead or Alive 5: Remaining Issues

[Matt Ponton]

Standard throw teching has been returned as it always has been in every DOA. It was removed in DOA Dimensions for the 3DS.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

to some extent yes, but its much more than that.
- it forces a player to choose between free-canceling and delay exclusively. the current system allows a fair amount of randomness
- it makes it easier for the defender to react well, reduces the need to hold as well since your best options out of this situation are to keep blocking or interrupt the attacker
- the attacker STILL gets most of the legit perks that string delay grants.
overall DrDogg's suggestion will make this particular aspect of the combo system a whole lot fairer for both parties

Yeah i hope the use some of this in DOA5. What exactly is delay attacks, i know what it means but i havent seen many in DOA.

 

[Chris Harris]

Yeah i hope the use some of this in DOA5. What exactly is delay attacks, i know what it means but i havent seen many in DOA.

Pretty much every attack in DoA can be delayed. Like Hitomi's 6k2k you can extremely delay that low thus creating a guessing game of false advantage

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Pretty much every attack in DoA can be delayed. Like Hitomi's 6k2k you can extremely delay that low thus creating a guessing game of false advantage

Oh wait yeah im thinking of delay attacks being a different attack, like in most games. I rarely do delay attacks because i dont know how long the delay opening is.

 

[TRI Mike]

The problem is the delay window, no the fact that they can be delayed themselves. I can delay many strings in VF5FS, just not abuse the fuck out of it like in DOA.

You all should definitely start using avatars.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

The problem is the delay window, no the fact that they can be delayed themselves. I can delay many strings in VF5FS, just not abuse the fuck out of it like in DOA.

You all should definitely start using avatars.

Got my avatar just for you and yeah if your good at delaying in DOA its incredibly annoying, since many times i over spam the counter button.

 

[AKNova7]

String delay should require commitment at the very least. For instance, if you want to delay a string, you should have to press the button you want to delay to, and hold it, and the move would execute on the release. >> At the very least.

 

[TRI Mike]

Got my avatar just for you and yeah if your good at delaying in DOA its incredibly annoying, since many times i over spam the counter button.

Terrible avatar.

String delay should require commitment at the very least. For instance, if you want to delay a string, you should have to press the button you want to delay to, and hold it, and the move would execute on the release. >> At the very least.

You mean kinda like Jean Kujo's strings in VF5FS¿

 

[Keylay]

What is the purpose of delaying strings in Virtua Fighter? Is it to mix up your opponent.

 

[FakeSypha]

You mean kinda like Jean Kujo's strings in VF5FS¿

But those aren't more like charge attacks (that are already present in DOA)? I mean, there is also a delay there, but it's not exactly the same.

Anyway, the window in which you could delay attacks should be toned down if it's the same as in DOA4. That's something most of us would agree, I guess.

 

[Berzerk!]

Pretty much every attack in DoA can be delayed. Like Hitomi's 6k2k you can extremely delay that low thus creating a guessing game of false advantage

The thing noone is saying here though is, when someone does a long delay on a move, they can be interrupted by another faster move or move with crush properties.

Not saying it wouldn't be fine to adjust the delayable window, but there is an effect that the opponent can take advantage of.

 

[Rikuto]

What is the purpose of delaying strings in Virtua Fighter? Is it to mix up your opponent.

With a very specific mixup, however... and not during every single portion of every single string for an insane amount of time.

 

[Chris Harris]

@Berserk - There are too many variations and crushes that you could use as well to attempt such a risky read. Especially now since counters don't do as much damage and if you get stunned you could lose a ton of health for such a risky read.

The reason we went for so many crazy interrupt attempts in DoA4 was because the hold was strong there was no reason to not go for it.

 

[OSTCarmine]

@Berserk - There are too many variations and crushes that you could use as well to attempt such a risky read. Especially now since counters don't do as much damage and if you get stunned you could lose a ton of health for such a risky read.

The reason we went for so many crazy interrupt attempts in DoA4 was because the hold was strong there was no reason to not go for it.

this...
also it is a very simple and effective process to just play switch up between delayed strings and PPT's. I would thus also like to suggest that TN adds some sort of visual cue to show when someone is using a Free Cancel during a string. That would also help ALOT

 

[Berzerk!]

I think its unrealistic to ask them to add animation to cancels at this stage, and its likely impractical in a play-flow perspective.

The core issue is the stun game and whether there are solid enough guaranteed attacks.

 

[OSTCarmine]

not an animation, just a visual cue of some sort. like how characters already flash during certain stuns.

 

[AKNova7]

I think its unrealistic to ask them to add animation to cancels at this stage, and its likely impractical in a play-flow perspective.

The core issue is the stun game and whether there are solid enough guaranteed attacks.

...That's really your only issue with this game? Look, if we're not gonna fix the neutral game, we might as well let it die. It's not just about the offense.

 

[Berzerk!]

No, its not, I'm talking about the core issue. The most important thing - and I was being too short hand. It's the stun system and whether a stun is shakeable or can be countered from that allows you a guaranteed follow up or not.

 

[Chris Harris]

Okay guys let's be serious and think about what you are asking. You are asking people that have a game scheduled to come out in about 2 months to throw it all out and start over to remake the neutral game? "Hey guys, I know you been working hard and the things you came up with were cool, but I need you to scratch that and just fix the neutral game. Frames on attacks, take away certain strings, add stand alone attacks (single strikes), etc. It's hella unrealistic to try and go back and do that right now. Maybe a patch at some point but in the end that's a COMPLETELY different game.

Focus on what can HELP the game right now so that they can build from that rather than go to an extreme

 

[TRI Mike]

Well SEGA did for VF5. TN could do it in 2 or three years.