DOA5LR Tom Lee discusses Raidou, Honoka, and the Casual audience

In a recent article on Dead or Alive 5 Last Round by Siliconera, Tom Lee is interviewed and discusses some of the reasoning for Raidou's return and Honoka's selection. Be sure to read the whole article for full details, but here are some notable quotes by the Creative Director of Team NINJA:

I asked Lee why Team Ninja brought Raidou back. "Raidou was brought back because he is a fan favorite. Team Ninja definitely wants to see more villains in the line up. I personally love seeing more characters like this it brings balance to the cutesy girls [in Dead or Alive]," Lee replied.

Lee explained Team Ninja looks at stats and player feedback when creating new Dead or Alive fighters. Team Ninja’s data says in the Western market people have been playing wrestler type characters like Rig while in Japan they favor the female characters. "There are many guys on our team. I would like to see more characters like Raidou, for instance. But at the end of the day I think the numbers support the Honoka type of character," Lee said when talking about creating Honoka. "Maybe its a cultural difference, but sometimes in the East it’s dictated by aesthetics first and then the story is developed through character design. Rather than saying, the sister of so-and-so just got messed up by him, so let’s create a revenge story. Lots of times we review character designs and she seems like a 15 year old school girl, she’s coming home from school, let’s create a story about that."

"Interactive touch points have been switched up and added. Hot Zones have changed for some stages. There may be an addition to existing hot spots and it won’t be in all of the stages. Without telling you exactly where they are, we want fans who have been with us for the last two years to enjoy finding new things," Lee said.

Tom Lee also discussed the casual audience, sometimes eerily seeming like a direct response from Tomonobu Itagaki's recent comments towards the fifth entry of the series.

While it might feel broken for competitive players, one of the reasons why Danger Zone, a stage from the original Dead or Alive with explosive traps, was added was to appeal to casual players. "I think we learned is one of the things we wanted to do better is we’ve focused on giving competitive players. Making sure it’s balanced not just for players in the East, but players in the West. That was one of our biggest focuses in the last couple of years," Lee answered when I asked how Dead or Alive 5 evolved from from 2012 to now. "With Last Round, one of the things we wanted to do is not lose focus of our casual audience as well. When it comes to game balance and even the presentation of the stages we wanted to reel back and make the experience enjoyable for casual fans."

"We want to maintain that DOA has an easy point of entry for beginners. We want it to be an intuitive sort of experience instead of learning the move list for 30 different characters or whatnot. They can come in the beginning and button mash their way through, not only having success but looking good while you’re doing it. We want people to have a great time whether they understand a character or not. In mastering it, they will learn in trial and error," Lee elaborated.

Be sure to read the full article from Siliconera for further details.

 

fuck this you're blocked. you tell others to give constructive criticism then flat out tell me mine is wrong fucking nerve of it all.

fact: MR would have done much better without the age controversy that could have been avoided
fact: Honoka would have been liked more if she brought something new

How did I tell you that your criticism is wrong? You were the one giving out misinformation. According to Team Ninja, Marie Rose and Honoka are 18. I've seen plenty of 18-year-old females who are short and flat chested like Marie Rose in real life. Also, Marie Rose brought a new fighting style to the series and currently holds the distinction as the only totally new 5U(A) character introduced that is unique in both looks and fighting styles.

As for Honoka, I'm not saying you have to like her. Not everyone will or does. All I'm saying is that is doesn't appeal to everyone, just like how she doesn't appeal to you. But when you're a fighting game developer, it can be hard to try to appeal to everyone. Team Ninja tried to appeal to everyone by bringing back a fan favorite and by introducing an archetype that people like and have been in numerous fighting games before. It's okay to not like a character that doesn't appeal to you, but that doesn't mean you have to always keep complaining about a character you're most likely not going to use.

 

I think it's more along the lines of wanting "Badass" characters in the roster, as Tom brought up about adding more "villians".

You are right, and Tom Lee is awesome. That said, the community doesn't seem to want villains necessarily, just big ol' men.

Me, I'll take Genra. Alma and Doku would be dope additions. lol I will also take whatever chicks they decide to create. After all, I am no Puritan

 

DOA's direction has never been lost. DOA5 was made with "Fighting Entertainment" in mind. Part of that entertainment comes from flashy moves, stage hazards, cliffhangers, fantastical costumes, etc. Raidou has a freaking projectile for goodness sakes and Honoka is a school girl with a secret power that allows her to copy moves from other fighters. DOA's direction has always been about flash and simple, but rewarding and deep fighting game mechanics. Despite the costumes, which do NOTHING to affect the gameplay, I'm still a Fighter and I love the Fighting Entertainment theme Team Ninja was going for, because I've put over 500 hours into this game because it entertains me.

If its been about flash, why did they remove all the flash? DOA5 literally has none of the "fighting entertainment" that the series was known for, so PLEASE don't try to pull that up again. They had to bring back music and stages from old games to get any of the "fighting entertainment" back.

I still like DOA5 and play it a ton, too, but I'm not gonna sit there and pretend like DOA didn't lose its direction.

 

fuck this you're blocked. you tell others to give constructive criticism then flat out tell me mine is wrong fucking nerve of it all.

fact: MR would have done much better without the age controversy that could have been avoided
fact: Honoka would have been liked more if she brought something new

Define "done much better"? I say she is currently doing quite fine popularity wise for a character introduced fairly recently that can stand in the same spotlight as Kasumi the series main protagonist. If anything her age presentation is part of the appeal one could argue.

I agree on the Honoka part though.

 

fact: Honoka would have been liked more if she brought something new

Honoka is already liked a lot by many people. The issue is that some people wont quit bitching about her.

 

Define "done much better"? I say she is currently doing quite fine popularity wise for a character introduced fairly recently that can stand in the same spotlight as Kasumi the series main protagonist. If anything her age presentation is part of the appeal one could argue.

I agree on the Honoka part though.

Here or the east? Was her age controversy in the east, or are they use to Babette and other vampires who are older than they look?

 

Except that with shit like this, we see exactly what we are trying to deny to people we know. I can't tell people that i like DoA for it's mechanics. I am a liar in the mind of everyone who doesn't play DoA, despite being notorious for bible thumping. Now i'm a pedo on top of it. Denying what something is doesn't change what it is. If shit like honoka is here to stay, then I ain't. It's not that i can just not play that character. That character is a new and hyped part of the game, and to support it makes me a pervert, and a pedophile on top of it. It doesn't matter how much you, me, and everyone else here denies it. If we have any value of anyone's opinion outside of this community (which we should have if we want more people playing the game so that it gets any respect), we need to accept them as they are. This is the problem with all niche groups and games: they are niche because they keep ignoring people outside the niche, so people outside the niche treat them as outsiders as a result. If i go to a tournament, i'm the outsider DoA player, because i'm part of a niche, a niche that also tells them that their opinions don't matter simply because i do not like them. We have to stop lying to ourselves, or we'll never grow.

I'm going to say this. At my university's FGC, I always pushed 3D games and DOA in particular, because everyone was mostly into Capcom fighters and anime. Yes, people made jokes about DOA, but I took it all in stride. There would be days where I did play by myself and use sexy costumes, because I knew it would get people talking. I always invited people to play with me and learn the mechanics and some of them did. Luckily, I met people and even opened the minds of others to play the game with. DOA gets so much flack for not abandoning its sexy roots. So the game has some sex appeal, what fighting game doesn't? If anything, the FGC as a whole are stubborn and usually won't give other games a fair chance. That's always going to be the case. Even if you're that sole DOA player, keep on playing, keep on going to community events, and keep pushing your game. Stop caring about what people think about your game, because you know that the community, like this one, is dedicated and Team Ninja believes in their product.

If its been about flash, why did they remove all the flash? DOA5 literally has none of the "fighting entertainment" that the series was known for, so PLEASE don't try to pull that up again. They had to bring back music and stages from old games to get any of the "fighting entertainment" back.

I still like DOA5 and play it a ton, too, but I'm not gonna sit there and pretend like DOA didn't lose its direction.

Elements of past DOA games are still in this one. Characters still fall off stages, cliffhangers added a new element of falling off by at least giving you a chance to save yourself (really wish there were more of those), characters are still using the flashy moves they are known for. There is a lot of fighting entertainment in DOA, which is why it's exciting to watch high level DOA play. Everything matters, from character match ups, to knowing combos, to even knowing the stage! That's fighting entertainment. So don't downplay DOA5 just because it doesn't match the aesthetic of past DOA games.

 

Honoka is already liked a lot by many people. The issue is that some people wont quit bitching about her.

Honoka will by default be loved solely by her aesthetic direction. Big tit school girls with a cow motif is still popular these days whether you want to admit this or not. Don't think that was being argued or at least I'm not arguing this. Mimic character archetypes always had limited appeal though and one could argue Honoka would have been more loved if she had a unique toolbox on top of her try-and-true aesthetic choice.

 

I'm neutral with Honoka. The lazy attempt of a moveset however..

Still, it's not too bad I suppose. Phase 4 was pretty bad though.

 

Here or the east? Was her age controversy in the east, or are they use to Babette and other vampires who are older than they look?

I don't know both? East definitely no question and a good portion of the silent West that have guilty pleasures. Think about the main demographic that would play DoA that wouldn't give two fucks about balance change logs.

 

I'm going to say this. At my university's FGC, I always pushed 3D games and DOA in particular, because everyone was mostly into Capcom fighters and anime. Yes, people made jokes about DOA, but I took it all in stride. There would be days where I did play by myself and use sexy costumes, because I knew it would get people talking. I always invited people to play with me and learn the mechanics and some of them did. Luckily, I met people and even opened the minds of others to play the game with. DOA gets so much flack for not abandoning its sexy roots. So the game has some sex appeal, what fighting game doesn't? If anything, the FGC as a whole are stubborn and usually won't give other games a fair chance. That's always going to be the case. Even if you're that sole DOA player, keep on playing, keep on going to community events, and keep pushing your game. Stop caring about what people think about your game, because you know that the community, like this one, is dedicated and Team Ninja believes in their product.

Aren't you the same guy that said he gave up on his local FGC? And other games do, but in street fighter, only Juri is a complete sleeze, while chun li and cammy are the ones who aren't pushing it. Ken and Ryu aren't shirtless, either. Sakura's skirt isn't constantly above her hips. I can't shake the remote for bouncing boobs, either. I could go on, but there's a difference here. Not everyone has bikinis. DoA is trying to push the boundries with every female character, while other fighters aren't.

I don't know both? East definitely no question and a good portion of the silent West that have guilty pleasures. Think about the main demographic that would play DoA that wouldn't give two fucks about balance change logs.

Elaborate, this isn't clear at all.

 

And so the fuck what? The Mishimas hogging the spotlight and Bounds in is everything that's wrong in Tekken. Street Fighter continously milking expansion after expansion is what's wrong with it. etc, etc, etc,.

DOA is absolutely no different in any other category, but you raising these freaking declarations(not even accusations, just declarations) is honestly pissing me off in a very big way.

Cut that shit out now. It IS a personal preference.

No its not.

Seriously, forget that I main Mila and lookit this shit. DOA5 started out with a new character like this

A realistic, serious fighting character with a goal, drive, and new unique fighting style, a "realistic" fighting style, to boot.

After that, starting with Marie Rose, the new characters have slowly devolved, until
Come Last Round, and it culminates in THIS.

A big tittied teen schoolgirl who is as "anime" as you can get, and whose ONLY defining, and advertised, feature is "has huge boobs". She literally exists SOLELY to be a generic waifu. So much for "I'm A Fighter"...



This is not a matter of "not everyone will like Honoka". This is not a matter of personal preference. This is about the implications of the trends with poor character design, and the future of DOA. They started out with a serious intent, and then managed to just run DOA's credibility into the ground arguably worse than Itakagi could have ever dreamed of doing. Just saying "There's tournaments now" doesn't mean shit, that was inevitable anyway what with better communication than there was a decade ago.

The issue is we can, quite depressingly, accurately guess that any future characters will be more like Honoka, and less like Mila. And what I mean by that isn't that I like Mila and not Honoka, but that future characters will be generic waifus, rather than any real characters bringing something new to the table.

I don't CARE if you like Honoka. All the bitching comes from how she brings literally nothing to the table, proves everyones complaints true and valid, and more importantly, she's a bad sign of things to come.

I hope to GOD I'm proven wrong with upcoming content, but it doesn't look good.

 

Oh don't mind Jyakotu, he has his way of contradicting things. It's already been proven on numerous occasions. You should of seen him with the male characters being ugly and demand the models to be improved to cater for "his" needs. Whenever I see a big post by Jyakotu, I just skim through it and go right to the next post.

Like come on? Rig ugly? not gay but Rig looks alright man.

 

Except its more than that.
The issue is that Honoka embodies everything wrong with DOA's direction not just a matter of personal preference.

You are so incredibly ignorant, it's not even funny anymore. Of course it's a matter of personal preference. Unless you're trying to tell me that sex and fan service are inherently and objectively bad. I don't even understand why you play this game. Every post of your's I have had the misfortune to come across is some form of bitching about an aspect of this game.

Like Tom Lee and some other users already said: Dead or Alive has an international audience. Not every character has to appeal to you, not every character is meant to appeal to everyone. The game is doing better than ever competitively, so obviously the supposed "over-sexualization" didn't do as much harm as you think it did.

I feel like this has been discussed a thousand times already in the last few weeks. Personally I feel like the game has a better standing in the competitive scene now than it had in the past. DOA4 and especially Xtreme had a much more negative impact on the way the series was perceived.

 

You are right, and Tom Lee is awesome. That said, the community doesn't seem to want villains necessarily, just big ol' men.

Me, I'll take Genra. Alma and Doku would be dope additions. lol I will also take whatever chicks they decide to create. After all, I am no Puritan

i dont know what Tom is smoking in all honesty even if they are more played in the west its just barely, pretty much no one plays Bass,Leon,Rig or Bayman period. this isnt some cultural divide DOA players pretty much like the same things.

 

What I hate is people who keep bashing costumes and sex appeal, thinking that DOA5 hasn't turned into a competitive fighter. The gameplay system in DOA5/5U/5LR has made the game more competitive than ever before and at various tournaments, DOA has had higher entrants than other 3D fighters. All we can do, as a community, is continue to give Team Ninja CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and support our game by attending tournaments.

First I see what you're saying about unity in the DOA's fanbase.
I'm not trying to provoke any argument or side-discussion but I just want to say that many of us can love this game/see it as a competitive game/ give constructive feedback and object to certain costumes and sex appeal at the same time. I'm just saying.

Overall, I agree with you, though. I'm really hyped about getting LR and can't wait to play with Helena and Ayane.

Spoiler: Behold! My Age-Inappropiate Pigtails.

LOL Poor Ayane. Her scalp must feel so strained.

You are so incredibly ignorant, it's not even funny anymore. Of course it's a matter of personal preference. Unless you're trying to tell me that sex and fan service are inherently and objectively bad.

I don't want to get in the middle of this argument but I just want to mention that we shouldn't be equating fan service/images of computer generated women as "sex." They're hypersexualized female characters - by definition. I'm not saying you can't like them. I'm not saying that's wrong; I'm not saying that's right. It's just a term. Everyone tries to dance around that by calling it "sex." That would be a very narrow view of "sex" lol.

 

i dont know what Tom is smoking in all honesty even if they are more played in the west its just barely, pretty much no one plays Bass,Leon,Rig or Bayman period. this isnt some cultural divide DOA players pretty much like the same things.

Its one of those cases where the loud minority gets heard.

 

fact: MR would have done much better without the age controversy that could have been avoided
fact: Honoka would have been liked more if she brought something new

To be fair what happened to Lucky Chloe contradicts both...

By the way people I think that first of all everyone should remain calm and try to discuss the thing peacefully and overall without personal attacks.

Like @Jyakotu said I think that the comments on this thread just make clear as everyone like or dislike the game or parts of it for different reasons. Don't try to find a common denominator between other people's opinions through "facts" or "sure what if scenarios", simply because they don't exist.

Indipendently from the fact that you like or dislike characters as Marie Rose or Honoka, if you want my opinion on the matter I don't believe that TN will create other similar characters in the close future. These two alone have already filled the majority of sexual clichè tied to similar characters (underage, schoolgirls, big breasts, flat chest, moe). Same for the mimic style, now already owned from Raidou and Honoka.

an shit, that was inevitable anyway what with better communication than there was a decade ago.

The issue is we can, quite depressingly, accurately guess that any future characters will be more like Honoka, and less like Mila. And what I mean by that isn't that I like Mila and not Honoka, but that future characters will be generic waifus, rather than any real characters bringing something new to the table.

But what is a real character? What means to bring something new? Are you sure that the answer is univocal for everyone?

 

At the moment, currently waiting for some good posts.

 

Oh don't mind Jyakotu. He has his way of contradicting things. It's already been proven on numerous occasions. You should of seen him with the male characters being ugly and demand the models to be improved to cater for "his" needs. Whenever I see a big post by Jyakotu, I just skim through it and go right to the next post.
Like come on? Rig ugly? not gay but Rig looks alright man.

Rig, despite looking a little gay, is a total badass IMO. He has the speed to be the badass that we want Bass to be, and the opporunity to be the evil that Ein couldn't be.

You are so incredibly ignorant, it's not even funny anymore. Of course it's a matter of personal preference. Unless you're trying to tell me that sex and fan service are inherently and objectively bad. I don't even understand why you play this game. Every post of your's I have had the misfortune to come across is some form of bitching about an aspect of this game.
Like Tom Lee and some other users already said: Dead or Alive has an international audience. Not every character has to appeal to you, not every character is meant to appeal to everyone. The game is doing better than ever competitively, so obviously the supposed "over-sexualization" didn't do as much harm as you think it did.
I feel like this has been discussed a thousand times already in the last few weeks. Personally I feel like the game has a better standing in the competitive scene now than it had in the past. DOA4 and especially Xtreme had a much more negative impact on the way the series was perceived.

I won't argue with the tastes thing. It is a matter of tastes, but those tastes do matter alot. You can get alot of quick cash selling your body, but after a while everyone gets bored with it. DoA feels the quick cash rush every time they show more body, but they don't realize that, in the long run, they're catering to a niche, which is why they won't expand that far in the west.

Its one of those cases where the loud minority gets heard.

When people complain about marie's jump, kasumi's speed, christie being unbalanced, etc, we don't hear people whining about rig, whom i see alot of online. I see people picking Brad quite a bit, too, but bad brads keep people from whining as much as the less common Helena.

EDIT: Ein, Hayate, and Ryu are everywhere.