DOA5LR Tom Lee discusses Raidou, Honoka, and the Casual audience

In a recent article on Dead or Alive 5 Last Round by Siliconera, Tom Lee is interviewed and discusses some of the reasoning for Raidou's return and Honoka's selection. Be sure to read the whole article for full details, but here are some notable quotes by the Creative Director of Team NINJA:

I asked Lee why Team Ninja brought Raidou back. "Raidou was brought back because he is a fan favorite. Team Ninja definitely wants to see more villains in the line up. I personally love seeing more characters like this it brings balance to the cutesy girls [in Dead or Alive]," Lee replied.

Lee explained Team Ninja looks at stats and player feedback when creating new Dead or Alive fighters. Team Ninja’s data says in the Western market people have been playing wrestler type characters like Rig while in Japan they favor the female characters. "There are many guys on our team. I would like to see more characters like Raidou, for instance. But at the end of the day I think the numbers support the Honoka type of character," Lee said when talking about creating Honoka. "Maybe its a cultural difference, but sometimes in the East it’s dictated by aesthetics first and then the story is developed through character design. Rather than saying, the sister of so-and-so just got messed up by him, so let’s create a revenge story. Lots of times we review character designs and she seems like a 15 year old school girl, she’s coming home from school, let’s create a story about that."

"Interactive touch points have been switched up and added. Hot Zones have changed for some stages. There may be an addition to existing hot spots and it won’t be in all of the stages. Without telling you exactly where they are, we want fans who have been with us for the last two years to enjoy finding new things," Lee said.

Tom Lee also discussed the casual audience, sometimes eerily seeming like a direct response from Tomonobu Itagaki's recent comments towards the fifth entry of the series.

While it might feel broken for competitive players, one of the reasons why Danger Zone, a stage from the original Dead or Alive with explosive traps, was added was to appeal to casual players. "I think we learned is one of the things we wanted to do better is we’ve focused on giving competitive players. Making sure it’s balanced not just for players in the East, but players in the West. That was one of our biggest focuses in the last couple of years," Lee answered when I asked how Dead or Alive 5 evolved from from 2012 to now. "With Last Round, one of the things we wanted to do is not lose focus of our casual audience as well. When it comes to game balance and even the presentation of the stages we wanted to reel back and make the experience enjoyable for casual fans."

"We want to maintain that DOA has an easy point of entry for beginners. We want it to be an intuitive sort of experience instead of learning the move list for 30 different characters or whatnot. They can come in the beginning and button mash their way through, not only having success but looking good while you’re doing it. We want people to have a great time whether they understand a character or not. In mastering it, they will learn in trial and error," Lee elaborated.

Be sure to read the full article from Siliconera for further details.

 

My post kept adding [/quote] at the end. Ha

But yeah, not many care about Mila.

 

You are so incredibly ignorant, it's not even funny anymore. Of course it's a matter of personal preference. Unless you're trying to tell me that sex and fan service are inherently and objectively bad. I don't even understand why you play this game. Every post of your's I have had the misfortune to come across is some form of bitching about an aspect of this game.

Like Tom Lee and some other users already said: Dead or Alive has an international audience. Not every character has to appeal to you, not every character is meant to appeal to everyone. The game is doing better than ever competitively, so obviously the supposed "over-sexualization" didn't do as much harm as you think it did.

I feel like this has been discussed a thousand times already in the last few weeks. Personally I feel like the game has a better standing in the competitive scene now than it had in the past. DOA4 and especially Xtreme had a much more negative impact on the way the series was perceived.

You call me ignorant while ignoring what I'm saying. Typical.

Pay attention to the trend.

Started out with Rig and Mila. Gritty, realistic fighters, both filling a character and fighting style niche that wasn't there before. Cool.

Then with Ultimate we got some ninja gaiden imports, a third VF, and Leon's return. Nothing actually new, but still cool.

Then we started with Marie Rose. Yay for new fighting style, boo for creepy bondage (and generic) loli design.
Then we got Kasumi number 3 (Boo), and a Tengu Genderswap (Boo). Thats two straight characters who brought nothing to the table.

So we hold out hope for a NEW character for Last Round. We get Raidou first. Cool, an old boss. And while boo hes a copy character, its fine because its what he does.

Then we get Honoka. She is frustratingly disappointing because
a) We were all hoping and guessing for something new and unique, which was even sadder because while hoping we STILL joked how it would probably just be a generic big titted schoolgirl waifu. And unfortunately were proven right.
b) She's a mimic character. Revealed right after the mimic character. The hell.
c) All promotion of her has been "SHE HAS BIG BOOBS!"

All character design credibility has flown the coop.


Not to mention Marie Rose and Honoka alone have ruined image searches...

But yeah, not many care about Mila.

I'm aware, but I'm still pointing out that she brought something new to the table, whereas Honoka doesn't. Just using as an example of how they started out really trying to make the game a more serious fighter in all facets (Some worked better than others) but now they don't give a fuck, and just made a generic moeblob whos only feature is "giant titties", and didn't even bother making a moveset for her, just slapping other characters moves on her.

To be fair what happened to Lucky Chloe contradicts both...

By the way people I think that first of all everyone should remain calm and try to discuss the thing peacefully and overall without personal attacks.

Like Jyakotu said I think that the comments on this thread just make clear as everyone like or dislike the game or parts of it for different reasons. Don't try to find a common denominator between other people's opinions through "facts" or "sure what if scenarios", simply because they don't exist.

Indipendently from the fact that you like or dislike characters as Marie Rose or Honoka, if you want my opinion on the matter I don't believe that TN will create other similar characters in the close future. These two alone have already filled the majority of sexual clichè tied to similar characters (underage, schoolgirls, big breasts, flat chest, moe). Same for the mimic style, now already owned from Raidou and Honoka.



But what is a real character? What means to bring something new? Are you sure that the answer is univocal for everyone?

I wish you were right, but I really doubt it. I'm sure we'll get more of the same, which has been the trend with all of DOA5's post vanilla content.

And I ask you, what does Honoka bring that's new to doa5?
Fighting style? Nope.
Design? No.
Tits? No.
Backstory? Does she even HAVE one?


I would be a lot more lenient with Honoka if
a) Her design, like Marie's, wasn't ripped straight off a pre-existing anime character.
b) She had her own fighting style instead of just being a mimic character released alongside the existing mimic character
c) She at least had a unique LOOK. (Again, calling for her camo skirt to be her "main" to help with this)

She just offers NOTHING new as a character. JUST there to be a waifu.


Like I wish they'd played up her "darkness" powers more, that would have been interesting, at least.

 

No its not.

Seriously, forget that I main Mila and lookit this shit. DOA5 started out with a new character like this

A realistic, serious fighting character with a goal, drive, and new unique fighting style, a "realistic" fighting style, to boot.

After that, starting with Marie Rose, the new characters have slowly devolved

HOW? Answer that question before you say anything more.
So did Street Fighter start devolving when we Sakura, Karin, R.Mika, Elena and Yun and Yang appeared? No it didn't and even then, there are people who don't like them and STILL don't make the idiotic declarations you are making now.

I can go on and on about Blazblue and Celica E. Mercury(probably an A as the initial but whatever), Platinum and Bullet, Elphet, Bedman and Ramlethal for Guilty Gear, etc, etc, motherfucking etc.

until
Come Last Round, and it culminates in THIS.

A big tittied teen schoolgirl who is as "anime" as you can get, and whose ONLY defining, and advertised, feature is "has huge boobs". She literally exists SOLELY to be a generic waifu. So much for "I'm A Fighter"...

And Rig and Bass was made for Bara-bait, Kasumi was made to bang Hayate and Ryu is a stereotype of badass incarnate, want to make more outlandish accusations(or declarations) while you are at it?


[QUOTEThis is not a matter of "not everyone will like Honoka". This is not a matter of personal preference.[/QUOTE]
Except IT IS, it absolutely is personal preference through and through. People say Ingrid is everything that's wrong with Street Fighter when that's absolutely a load of shit. People say the same shit about Tekken and Lucky Chloe and that Arabian guy and that's a load of shit.
You wanna know WHY that's a load of shit? Because people like you SPEAK FOR EVERYONE ELSE!

This is about the implications of the trends with poor character design, and the future of DOA. They started out with a serious intent, and then managed to just run DOA's credibility into the ground arguably worse than Itakagi could have ever dreamed of doing.

This is a fucking joke...the man who decided to make a fucking volleyball game, two of them, didn't damage the series at all(HA), but a team make a slew of females you don't like and apparently degraded one of them(I don't even) and now they did more damage than Itagaki.
Continue making yourself a joke Argentus, my avatar is funny enough, the situation I see you as right now.

Just saying "There's tournaments now" doesn't mean shit, that was inevitable anyway what with better communication than there was a decade ago.

It's not just tournies moron, it's public perception and even now DOA has been taken seriously MORE THAN EVER. That's not a falsified fact, that's truth. The only thing that's killing DOA isn't the DLC, it's the sexy costumes, it's THE COMMUNITY ITSELF! If the community can't even get it's own head out of it's ass and have people not taking the damn game seriously, why should anyone else?

The issue is we can, quite depressingly, accurately guess that any future characters will be more like Honoka, and less like Mila. And what I mean by that isn't that I like Mila and not Honoka

Except that's EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN! You don't like how a character looks and acts and therefore because there are people who like her, she must be generic waifu trash. I've heard that same shit about Marie despite nothing about her screams that and even the same shit for Nyotengu, which baffles the fuck outta me.

but that future characters will be generic waifus, rather than any real characters bringing something new to the table.

You know that...how? There's no way for something to be generic AND bring something new to the table? Well I guess I better go tell Arc-Sys that Argentus told them they can't do anything generic and they won't amount to bringing anything new, same with Namco Bandai and Capcom. Argentus knows all ladies and peeps.

I don't CARE if you like Honoka. All the bitching comes from how she brings literally nothing to the table, proves everyones complaints true and valid, and more importantly, she's a bad sign of things to come.

I hope to GOD I'm proven wrong with upcoming content, but it doesn't look good.

I don't care if you don't like Honoka, but your bitching is honestly getting absurd and honest to god makes you seem like an all-knowing ass. And I'm honestly getting sick of it, especially with that Mila bullshit. I'm so fucking sorry that apparently if you have an MMA style and wear tomboyish clothes, you CANNOT be anything but fucking serious. Thanks for going back to stereotypes and generic shit...oh wait, you hate that shit because it bring nothing new, my bad.

 

To those who say my name, at least have the decency to @ me in your posts.

 

Still waiting for some good posts. Oh sure no problem @Jyakotu

 

No, but seriously wtf

 

No, but seriously wtf

It's nice being on the spectating end once in a while. =P

 

Can everyone please calm down? Maybe you don't like everything about Doa 5, you might have issues with the optional dlc costumes, or the aesthetics of some of the new characters, but the fact remains that DOA is doing better than ever. More people are showing up to play the game and I think that's awesome. It's fine to want some changes, but why do we have to be so negative about everything? We have a great game that the devs support, which is more than a lot of communities can say.

I'm going to enjoy playing the game, and I hope everyone else does too.

 

Nice read! I'm glad they want to bring in more villains. We've been talking about how 3 of the 5 new characters are based on a boss/sub-boss from the past. Maybe there will be hope for Genra after all.

I didn't see any mention of a new mode though for DLC... :/

 

I still have to say that werewolfgold made the best post in this by far.

But yeah.

 

This is supposed to be a thread worth sharing, but all I see is a toxic thread with a bunch people throwing jabs at others because of either what Tom said or what he/she say. Guys, stop making enemies through a fucking keyboard. Geez, I pity people that grow a dislike for other people because of what they read on a cpu screen. Learn to respect an opinion. If you disagree just tell why you disagree. You can do it without being rude & judgmental because of it, damn.

 

HOW? Answer that question before you say anything more.
So did Street Fighter start devolving when we Sakura, Karin, R.Mika, Elena and Yun and Yang appeared? No it didn't and even then, there are people who don't like them and STILL don't make the idiotic declarations you are making now.

I can go on and on about Blazblue and Celica E. Mercury(probably an A as the initial but whatever), Platinum and Bullet, Elphet, Bedman and Ramlethal for Guilty Gear, etc, etc, motherfucking etc.


And Rig and Bass was made for Bara-bait, Kasumi was made to bang Hayate and Ryu is a stereotype of badass incarnate, want to make more outlandish accusations(or declarations) while you are at it?


Except IT IS, it absolutely is personal preference through and through. People say Ingrid is everything that's wrong with Street Fighter when that's absolutely a load of shit. People say the same shit about Tekken and Lucky Chloe and that Arabian guy and that's a load of shit.
You wanna know WHY that's a load of shit? Because people like you SPEAK FOR EVERYONE ELSE!


This is a fucking joke...the man who decided to make a fucking volleyball game, two of them, didn't damage the series at all(HA), but a team make a slew of females you don't like and apparently degraded one of them(I don't even) and now they did more damage than Itagaki.
Continue making yourself a joke Argentus, my avatar is funny enough, the situation I see you as right now.


It's not just tournies moron, it's public perception and even now DOA has been taken seriously MORE THAN EVER. That's not a falsified fact, that's truth. The only thing that's killing DOA isn't the DLC, it's the sexy costumes, it's THE COMMUNITY ITSELF! If the community can't even get it's own head out of it's ass and have people not taking the damn game seriously, why should anyone else?


Except that's EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN! You don't like how a character looks and acts and therefore because there are people who like her, she must be generic waifu trash. I've heard that same shit about Marie despite nothing about her screams that and even the same shit for Nyotengu, which baffles the fuck outta me.


You know that...how? There's no way for something to be generic AND bring something new to the table? Well I guess I better go tell Arc-Sys that Argentus told them they can't do anything generic and they won't amount to bringing anything new, same with Namco Bandai and Capcom. Argentus knows all ladies and peeps.


I don't care if you don't like Honoka, but your bitching is honestly getting absurd and honest to god makes you seem like an all-knowing ass. And I'm honestly getting sick of it, especially with that Mila bullshit. I'm so fucking sorry that apparently if you have an MMA style and wear tomboyish clothes, you CANNOT be anything but fucking serious. Thanks for going back to stereotypes and generic shit...oh wait, you hate that shit because it bring nothing new, my bad.

....Okay. I'm bored, we can do this.

1) Mila was the first realistically designed girl, which was new, first hispanic girl (even if it doesn't show), first MMA fighter, and suited the "Gritty' aesthetic they were trying for with vanilla 5. Later characters slowly stopped bringing things to the table, until we get Honoka who literally has NOTHING new about her. She is redundant in every sense.

2) I don't know what the hell you are getting at with the street fighter or blazblue characters, I don't see how that relates to what I was saying.

3) Except Bass, Kasumi, Ein, Ryu weren't covering roles already filled by existing characters. They all covered new ground, with the sole argument of Bass being wrestler, which Tina was also.

4) When I say "its not a matter of personal preference", I'm not saying I speak for if everyone will or wont like Honoka. I'm saying that whether people do or don't like her is irrelevant to the point. As in, the POINT is not a matter of personal preference.

5) The man who decided to make two volleyball games, didn't add the creepy voyeur beachside camera mode to DOA proper. Itagaki isn't the man who literally flooded the market with fetish dlc.

6) Except no. Again, whether you like her or I don't is irrelevant. Which is exactly what I said.

7) I never said something couldn't be generic and bring something to the table. Hell, thats exactly what Marie Rose is. A generic design, but a unique fighting style. I'm pointing out how the dlc characters have slowly whittled down any originality, to the point we are left with Honoka, who has none whatsoever. As for the future, I'm basing this on the DLC trends so far.


If you want to try to talk high and mighty, at least pay attention to what you are quoting, and understand what you are responding to. Just screaming at me because I like Mila and not Honoka is not only missing the entire subject of conversation, but just making you look ignorant. I'm using the two as objective examples of how they started with a new character, and how they've wound up with a "new" character. Whether I like or dislike them is irrelevant.

 

This is supposed to be know worth sharing, but all I see is a toxic thread with a bunch people throwing jabs at others because of either what Tom said or what he/she say. Guys, stop making enemies through a fucking keyboard. Geez, I pit people that grow a dislike for other people because of what they read on a cpu screen. Learn to respect an opinion. If you disagree just tell why you disagree. You can do it without being rude & judgmental because of it, damn.

As long as everyone can take responsibility for what they say and how they come off, then I agree with this. But some people are able to slide while others (like me) get attacked. But it is what it is.

 

Alright Argentus that's enough. You just wrote a novel.

 

As long as everyone can take responsibility for what they say and how they come off, then I agree with this. But some people are able to slide while others (like me) get attacked. But it is what it is.

It wasn't necessarily directed at you. It was directed at everybody in here. The rate this is going, it'll end up getting locked or people banned.

 

Elaborate, this isn't clear at all.

Elaborating then since I thought that was pretty self-explanatory enough if one was fairly observant enough to common trends. I don't want to write a novel on this so gonna keep this relatively short and condensed as possible.

Japan/East = One of the leading characters with fan art since her late inclusion, ranked 2nd in a recent official poll behind Kasumi, picked often in casual play usually followed by 'kawai~' and other positive terms in multiple different videos/streams I watched of Japan play, being pimped out in merchandising, common DoA choice cosplay, etc.

MR belongs in a common culture archetype that is popular [gothic loli pettanko] hence why she herself is being accepted quite easily regardless if she was labelled 12 or 1012 years old. The age is usually an afterthought for anime/video game characters anyway.

US/West = Not as accepting compared to East/Japan about what appears to be an underage girl being introduced because of different embedded social values. Western anime/manga crowd [fair assumption a good amount of them are into ecchi/harem/etc genre would play this game with what this game offers] that are loli/flat chest fans dig her just like there are Western fans that like 'cute young' characters Rachel in BB, May in GG, etc. Has generated positive reception in anime/manga affiliated sites such as CR, MAL, etc. One of the top DoA characters you could find art for if you dare venture DA, Tumblr, etc.

She isn't as widely despised as one would initially think just because she goes against the Western accepted standards of age consent. If there was a Western only poll would be willing to bet money she would still somehow retain top 10.

Note the common term that was missing for both region descriptions.
Competitive. No secret that those of us that play the game as a hobby for competition are the minority demographic so this is from the perspective from the majority demographic that would buy this game that is marketed as a 'sexy and action' 3D fighter. They want 'sexy and action' and different perspectives have different definitions for 'sexy' as we all learned once all kinds of different fetishes emerged.

Note that this is a broad generalization. I'm perfectly aware that there is the possibility and liklihood that someone in Japan would not like MR and such, but I am fairly certain there is enough of a general consensus established from various sources that MR 'as is' regardless of any lingering age controversies still ended up being a well accepted character.

TLDR: MR still has popularity regardless of age controversy because one can argue that is part of the appeal.

 

So Tom Lee actually prefer more balance with males/females? I knew he was a cool guy.

 

Alright Argentus that's enough. You just wrote a novel.

I found it remarkably easy to churn out essays in school lol.


But to go back on topic, I like how Tom just admitted to the reasons behind stuff instead of the bs excuses we normally get from TN.

 

I found it remarkably easy to churn out essays in school lol.

Ahh that's gre-

I like how Tom just admitted to the reasons behind stuff instead of the bs excuses we normally get from TN.

Uh-oh here we go again.

 

Ahh that's gre-


Uh-oh here we go again.

seriously, cmon, what now?

I'm talking about stuff like saying current gen can't handle the stages and hairstyles when we know they withheld that stuff to promote the next gen versions.

I like how Tom's just flat out saying "cute girls sells, so cute girl gets made, though I'd like more variety like Raidou". Its refreshing honestly.