It's not a terrible way of putting it, I suppose. Not that I'd quit because of Rig or that was what was even being said by the original poster (who was not me). But that certain systems of play are legitimate/desirable (load the question as you must) or not should be a fair question, if we're talking about the uniqueness and merits of the system. Because if DOA's system is not made to be unique, we are left with arguing its merits on the brand and... ooooof, that's just a freakin' mess, and really would not be worth advocating for.
Why is DOA 5 considered non-competitive ?
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It's not a terrible way of putting it, I suppose. Not that I'd quit because of Rig or that was what was even being said by the original poster (who was not me). But that certain systems of play are legitimate/desirable (load the question as you must) or not should be a fair question, if we're talking about the uniqueness and merits of the system. Because if DOA's system is not made to be unique, we are left with arguing its merits on the brand and... ooooof, that's just a freakin' mess, and really would not be worth advocating for.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
You missed the point. Being able to overcome it isn't the (or even AN) issue. Having to deal with it all the time, however, is. I play DOA, to play DOA, not to play Tekken.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Correction, you want to play DOA4, not DOA.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
d3v
Well-Known Member
You couldn't hold out of stun in DOA1. DOA ++, 2 and 3 made them hard to do, low damaging or prevented the hold in other ways... just like 5.
Try harder.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Funny considering DoA5 plays more like DoA than DoA4 did.
Stikku
Active Member
intentional lies and fallacies.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Clearly you have never played anything but DoA4.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
I just consider it worse than DOA3 and DOA2 because the levels, music, and costumes sucked in comparison. Which is why I consider DOA5 to BARELY qualify as DOA. It contains almost NONE of the hallmarks of a DOA game. The only thing it has is the counter system.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Are you kidding? String based combat, 90%+ the same movelist and animation for the characters, the same spacing and basic mixup game - you're getting confused between the core mechanics that have remained completely intact, and cosmetic changes. It would still be DOA if everyone had only one costume.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
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SilverKhaos
Active Member
Way to come across as a neckbeard...
DR2K
Well-Known Member
He was sidestepping in DOA4, lol.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
Without the aesthetics, it still feels like a totally different game. If only because those aesthetics have been present since what, the very first game? There was no transition to this new setup. Just BAM. total opposite of everything prior.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Most of the costumes are from Prior DOA games. You have no arguement.
Stikku
Active Member
I've likely played more fighting games than you, Raansu, and I don't necessarily tout that with pride. I read a recent tweet of yours while monitoring the @teamninjastudio feed about "throw's shouldn't connect on people doing sidesteps." Honestly, it didn't even occur to me until later that you could have possibly been saying that out of a simple suggestion (albeit a silly one) rather than criticism, considering Virtua Fighter itself (DOA5's prime inspiration) has throws that connect on sidestepping opponents.
I've played many fighters and I can say that with confidence, but most importantly I've been a fan of the DOA series first and foremost. I can't infer the same for you. I know you played DOA2 and DOA4, but that's honestly about it. DOA5 just makes me want to look the other way though and put more time, interest, and effort into Virtua Fighter, considering TeamNinja so blindly did just that. Heck, even the input buffers are stricter in DOA5, far more strict than they've ever been in a DOA, and even stricter than a Virtua Fighter. DOA5 is pretty ridiculous.
DOA4 had a fantastic fighting system behind it. Incredibly simple to pick up and play, very comfortable on inputs, but very difficult to play extremely efficiently because of the inherent pros and cons of the counter system. That didn't make the game bad though, it made it much much better than the competitors. DOA4 was a collection of well thought out tools within the game to be manipulated and taken advantage of. The music was different, the levels were different. That being said, the best thing DOA4 could have benefited from was simply being updated with more content, more characters, and essentially everything else that other fighter's in the past 7 years improved upon. That would have been the perfect DOA5, but instead DOA5 is this ridiculous harder-than-virtua-fighter Virtua Fighter knockoff that's missing content, doesn't have as much stage variety, doesn't have character themes, has weakened holds, and looks and feels more like a combination of Tekken and Virtua Fighter rather than a continued patently unique Dead or Alive game.
Virtua Fighter has an RPS system. Attacks, Guards, and Throws. Attacks beat Throws, Throws beat Guards, and Guards beat attacks.
DOA also has a patently different RPS system. Attacks, Holds, and Throws. Attacks beat throws, Throws beat Holds, and Holds beat attacks.
The difference in these systems is that VF's Guarding doesn't guarantee damage, whereas Attacks Holds and Throws in DOA all deal damage. Both series have also played differently because of it, and honestly I prefer the way DOA has traditionally done it in the past. VF's Rock Paper Scissor system is more like Rock Paper SafetyScissors. Rock beats SafetyScissors, SafetyScissors don't necessarily beat Paper, and Paper beats Rock. DOA5 now operates more closely to a VF game in terms of frame advantage and a "unique" evade system of sidestepping, yet also has extended guaranteed combo potential like a Tekken game. It just doesn't feel like DOA.
i think i'm ranting so i'm going to stop here cause I honestly don't know where I'm going with this other than I think Raansu is a goof.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
Other than the complete lack of trademark aesthetics, music, levels, modes, and costumes, sure, why not. having a couple of costumes from previous games does not come anywhere near close to DOA levels of costumes. Especially when a good handful of the costumes are palette swaps rather than alternate costumes, proper.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
I wouldn't say he's so much a goof, as he has his head stuck up his ass half the time. He's EXTREMELY ignorant. You can tell him things point blank, but it just goes in one ear, out the other, then he just makes up whatever he wanted to hear. He argues like my grandmother lol.
But yeah. it feels more Tekken than DOA, which is a REALLY bad thing, since they were originally completely polar opposites in the genre.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
VF also has throw breaks. Makes a world of difference.
DoA5's buffer system still isn't very strict. Akira's inputs are 10x easier to do in DoA5 than in VF5FS. Course if you played DoA5 you would actually know this.
Stikku
Active Member
I know you're fucking lying. You better zip up your trap right quick.
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