DOA Tournament Tier List

Onryoki

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I don't believe teching up coincides with a mix up, in that case you're talking about oki, which has to do with pressuring the opponent on the ground. In the case with your 66K you avoided his wake up low it/crushed it which is different. Had he did a mid wake up kick you would've failed in that case and the momentum would have shifted.
Okizheme (spelling?) is a mixup, so is spacing, force teching, string delaying and string cancelling. They all fall under the term mixups. Like I stated in my previous post “Mixup is a strategy or technique of making one's attacks more difficult to predict.” And that’s the definition I got off Wikipedia.

@Brute Fought Zack yeah, fought a good one? Not in a very long time.
 

KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
Okizheme (spelling?) is a mixup, so is spacing, force teching, string delaying and string cancelling. They all fall under the term mixups. Like I stated in my previous post “Mixup is a strategy or technique of making one's attacks more difficult to predict.” And that’s the definition I got off Wikipedia.

@Brute Fought Zack yeah, fought a good one? Not in a very long time.
Ok. Well I'm unwatching the thread now so if anyone wants to discuss tiers or something in a different thread we can
 

Shirataki Tsume

Well-Known Member
Mixup is basically a term for applying mind games to your opponent. 50/50 is an example of a mixup. You condition the opponent to think of options to defend itself and make him feel unsure what comes next. Either you do a mid when you think he's going to duck because he anticipates you're going to do a low or you'll do a low attack when you think he'll just stand guard to block a mid that your opponent anticipates.

Okizeme is another mixup trying to pressure a knocked down opponent. The idea is the same, but on a downed opponent. If your opponent thinks you'll do a ground-hitting low, he'll get up and crouch guard; if he thinks you'll do a mid, he'll just stay on the ground, but get up and stand guard when he thinks you'll do a ground-hitting mid.
 

Radiance

Well-Known Member
Ok. Well I'm unwatching the thread now so if anyone wants to discuss tiers or something in a different thread we can

I mean, you posted your opinion of tiers and we simply questioned the ideology behind some character placements.. If I posted mines I would expect others to do the same. However, even though I've been playing since launch I still don't fully understand the meta behind each character which is why I didn't. It seems like you were posting your tier list based upon what you see in tournaments which can be biased since not all characters are equally represented.
 

T..J. Bernard

Well-Known Member
Rig at B tier? Everyone’s gonna have to explain that to me. Sure he has a couple bad MU’s, and his 13i mid punch isn’t the greatest but he has one of the more versatile tools for a rushdown character. Not just saying as a Rig main. Plus frames, crazy guarantees that kill any character, even his worst MU, and he has tools for shoulder, tank roll, etc., he has possibly the best guaranteed back combo also by the way. The lowest I give him is A for the execution & MU issues at times, but B? I can’t see it at all. And the Eliot at C as well. But I'll respect everyone’s tier list.

@Shirataki Tsume
"When I had to make a tier list, I usually base it on the availability of the character's arsenal despite its difficulty/execution requirement and how much it overwhelms the others on the same department and the character's entire move set. Such as <character> has the best 10 frame punisher in the game because it does 34 damage and KND and <character> has the best launcher in the game because it's 12 frames and +6 on block while the rest is only 15 frames and -9 on block etc. It still stand superior even if it's a just frame move or something that makes a move difficult.

I've always thought of putting Akuma on SS tier because he has 10-12 frame launchers which the rest of the 3D fighter Tekken cast doesn't have and he also has that invincible uppercut, and he can turn moves that are negative on block into plus on block, but I had to keep in mind that it requires meter, so it's not available at all times.

You can add Dragunov's d/b+3 to be a part of his BnB as well. It now does a full combo when it only does a mini combo back in the previous games."

I felt Akuma would have been SS if he was as broken as before his nerfs. He's already extremely damaging, to the point where some of his combos can kill in one go. But I would go by tools and such, if it we're at a deathmatch scenario. Like I feel at a deathmatch, some characters would actually be boosted (Hwo, Master Raven, Leo, etc) as they would be able to utilize tools better and adapt to the opposition better. However, because I have to consider tournament scenario, you won't be utilizing every move the character has to offer so I have to look at what moves are effective in tourneys and how much they stand out. Honestly, the 4 hardest for me was Bryan, Josie, Akuma, & Jin. But that's kinda why some characters that would seem SS with the tools and all that, I dropped seeing that tournaments differ from deathmatches.
 
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KasumiLover

xX_APO_Prince_Xx
Premium Donor
I mean, you posted your opinion of tiers and we simply questioned the ideology behind some character placements.. If I posted mines I would expect others to do the same. However, even though I've been playing since launch I still don't fully understand the meta behind each character which is why I didn't. It seems like you were posting your tier list based upon what you see in tournaments which can be biased since not all characters are equally represented.
Oh that's not the point. Someone I don't like or care for posted here and since I can't ignore them I don't want to be in the thread anymore. I rather not post at all here
 

illninofan

Well-Known Member
The list in itself isn't bad but I really don't think DOA has a "Tier list" XCaliburBladeZ is one proof, he made his Alpha top, Eliot top, Helena top, Zack top, and Sonic Fox made his whatever he plays top especially Marie Rose and Rachel.

Just find a character you really like the play style of, and climb your way to the top, it's about playing good, there are no shortcuts here.

I agree with this.

I have yet to play in any tournaments, but after playing this game for a year, and no longer being lost in the details, I can say that if you want to make a character/moveset work, you can.

The simpler the better. It's all predicated on read/react no matter what character you use.

That said, I still have a lot of training to do, and have a lot of moves that I still need to commit to muscle memory.
 

T..J. Bernard

Well-Known Member
I agree with this.

I have yet to play in any tournaments, but after playing this game for a year, and no longer being lost in the details, I can say that if you want to make a character/moveset work, you can.

The simpler the better. It's all predicated on read/react no matter what character you use.

That said, I still have a lot of training to do, and have a lot of moves that I still need to commit to muscle memory.

Not saying you can't make it work, but I'm saying there are characters whom have it easier. Tell me if every character can make grand finals, why haven't I seen Raidou vs Ein or Honoka vs Bass in a grand finals. And I'm saying from the start of the tournament to finish. Some characters have it easier cause the games system works for them better. And I'm sorry but I don't agree with the simpler the better. If a character's too simple, then they're easy to read, which hurts a lot in a tournament scenario. Not saying you should learn the most complex characters in the game but there should be a balance of simple to play but complex to make it hard for the opposition to read. If they guess right, they guess right. Nothing you can do about it. Some people can make the hardest reads but not everyone can. But you don't want to be predictable because your characters predictable. I'm not saying don't play Honoka or Bass or Brad or anyone. Play who you enjoy. I play Rig, Jann, Jacky, & adding Sarah to the roster. Those characters, I have fun with. Brad was fun too until I stopped playing cause I wanted to dedicate myself to those specific characters. However, I have to consider that some characters have tools that work way better for them, especially in a tournament scenario, because the games system and mechanics works way better for them. Simpler works in Tekken more-so than DOA. Thats why we have Jack-7 in SS tier. Simple but effective as the games system works for him. I hope I shed light on why I disagree.
 

illninofan

Well-Known Member
Not saying you can't make it work, but I'm saying there are characters whom have it easier. Tell me if every character can make grand finals, why haven't I seen Raidou vs Ein or Honoka vs Bass in a grand finals. And I'm saying from the start of the tournament to finish. Some characters have it easier cause the games system works for them better. And I'm sorry but I don't agree with the simpler the better. If a character's too simple, then they're easy to read, which hurts a lot in a tournament scenario. Not saying you should learn the most complex characters in the game but there should be a balance of simple to play but complex to make it hard for the opposition to read. If they guess right, they guess right. Nothing you can do about it. Some people can make the hardest reads but not everyone can. But you don't want to be predictable because your characters predictable. I'm not saying don't play Honoka or Bass or Brad or anyone. Play who you enjoy. I play Rig, Jann, Jacky, & adding Sarah to the roster. Those characters, I have fun with. Brad was fun too until I stopped playing cause I wanted to dedicate myself to those specific characters. However, I have to consider that some characters have tools that work way better for them, especially in a tournament scenario, because the games system and mechanics works way better for them. Simpler works in Tekken more-so than DOA. Thats why we have Jack-7 in SS tier. Simple but effective as the games system works for him. I hope I shed light on why I disagree.

You did, fine points all around.

You have significantly more experience than I do, so I have no choice but to concede that the game's mechanics are in favor of some characters over the others in a tournament context.

I admit to being an optimistic beginner and wanted to think that it was all dependent on the player even in a tournament setting rather than character or the inner workings of the game (mechanics), but I suppose I stand corrected. Having never played in one, I can't really comment.

Pardon the confusion on the usage of the word "simpler", I meant that as a beginner, when learning the game, one gets overwhelmed with all of the information, the moves, the details, etc. It can be extremely overwhelming. I've found in my own trials that simplifying the game to reading moves and reacting helps. Was just using my common sense there, if you're visualizing something else except the fight that's in front of you, you're going to get whacked. :confused::eek:

I absolutely agree that you don't want to be easy to read. It's like any other sport, if you're a pitcher in baseball, for example, and your fastball becomes predictable, teams will feast on you. Same thing applies here. Hope that tie-in made sense.

Speaking of characters, I'm gradually getting a feel for all of the characters. I'm dedicating myself to a few as well. Honoka is my "main" (heh), but that's just because she was the first one I decided to seriously delve deeper into. I love playing with Marie Rose, Hitomi, Akira and Hayabusa and have fun against Christie and Leifang and plan on at least gaining a good feel for the rest of the cast. The more familiar I am with all of the moves in the game, the better, I would think.

I hope to play in a tournament down the line and take an unconventional character as far as I can...maybe. :oops:

I have a ways to go and am still very much a beginner, so take my opinion for what it's worth.My intent isn't to provoke, but rather to learn. To share thoughts with you folks and test my knowledge. :cool:

(Just bought Tekken 7 last week, picked Jin back up and it's been a blast)
 

T..J. Bernard

Well-Known Member
You did, fine points all around.

You have significantly more experience than I do, so I have no choice but to concede that the game's mechanics are in favor of some characters over the others in a tournament context.

I admit to being an optimistic beginner and wanted to think that it was all dependent on the player even in a tournament setting rather than character or the inner workings of the game (mechanics), but I suppose I stand corrected. Having never played in one, I can't really comment.

Pardon the confusion on the usage of the word "simpler", I meant that as a beginner, when learning the game, one gets overwhelmed with all of the information, the moves, the details, etc. It can be extremely overwhelming. I've found in my own trials that simplifying the game to reading moves and reacting helps. Was just using my common sense there, if you're visualizing something else except the fight that's in front of you, you're going to get whacked. :confused::eek:

I absolutely agree that you don't want to be easy to read. It's like any other sport, if you're a pitcher in baseball, for example, and your fastball becomes predictable, teams will feast on you. Same thing applies here. Hope that tie-in made sense.

Speaking of characters, I'm gradually getting a feel for all of the characters. I'm dedicating myself to a few as well. Honoka is my "main" (heh), but that's just because she was the first one I decided to seriously delve deeper into. I love playing with Marie Rose, Hitomi, Akira and Hayabusa and have fun against Christie and Leifang and plan on at least gaining a good feel for the rest of the cast. The more familiar I am with all of the moves in the game, the better, I would think.

I hope to play in a tournament down the line and take an unconventional character as far as I can...maybe. :oops:

I have a ways to go and am still very much a beginner, so take my opinion for what it's worth.My intent isn't to provoke, but rather to learn. To share thoughts with you folks and test my knowledge. :cool:

(Just bought Tekken 7 last week, picked Jin back up and it's been a blast)

You good. I’m learning myself and this was my first year of even playing competitive and 2nd year overall. I just wanted to voice some stuff as I like to engage people (I can’t much cause I’m doing evangelism stuff) and get in dialogue about stuff, even if I disagree with it. But I gotchu now on the simpler stuff. And that’s true. It’s more on fundamentals and such but that applies to every game. Solid fundamentals gets you far regardless of the game or character, which is why Eliot can get far and stuff. I hope you do get into a tourney. It’s always good to go and learn more about the game and stuff. I wish for the best too with Honoka.

P.S. Jin’s a great character. Very versatile.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Not saying you can't make it work, but I'm saying there are characters whom have it easier. Tell me if every character can make grand finals, why haven't I seen Raidou vs Ein or Honoka vs Bass in a grand finals. And I'm saying from the start of the tournament to finish. Some characters have it easier cause the games system works for them better. And I'm sorry but I don't agree with the simpler the better. If a character's too simple, then they're easy to read, which hurts a lot in a tournament scenario. Not saying you should learn the most complex characters in the game but there should be a balance of simple to play but complex to make it hard for the opposition to read. If they guess right, they guess right. Nothing you can do about it. Some people can make the hardest reads but not everyone can. But you don't want to be predictable because your characters predictable. I'm not saying don't play Honoka or Bass or Brad or anyone. Play who you enjoy. I play Rig, Jann, Jacky, & adding Sarah to the roster. Those characters, I have fun with. Brad was fun too until I stopped playing cause I wanted to dedicate myself to those specific characters. However, I have to consider that some characters have tools that work way better for them, especially in a tournament scenario, because the games system and mechanics works way better for them. Simpler works in Tekken more-so than DOA. Thats why we have Jack-7 in SS tier. Simple but effective as the games system works for him. I hope I shed light on why I disagree.

Eh, I kinda don't like seeing final resulted tiers based off grand finals at events though. Grand finals in some tournament is just a single set like any other set before that, you could have someone go through an entire tournament as Gen Fu and then pick Naotora at grand finals and win which has happened before but not specifically Naotora. Then it becomes a case of "See Naotora or Honoka is good guys, you all are just obviously terrible" really? well I didn't see you picking these characters from start to finish when you entered this tournament or whatever. The player could of just gotten extremely unlucky with the turn out or the other player just happened to make exceptional reads that costed the other player + any number of factors included based off player's approach.

Sometimes people just don't like a particular matchup in general even if your character has answers for.
 

T..J. Bernard

Well-Known Member
Eh, I kinda don't like seeing final resulted tiers based off grand finals at events though. Grand finals in some tournament is just a single set like any other set before that, you could have someone go through an entire tournament as Gen Fu and then pick Naotora at grand finals and win which has happened before but not specifically Naotora. Then it becomes a case of "See Naotora or Honoka is good guys, you all are just obviously terrible" really? well I didn't see you picking these characters from start to finish when you entered this tournament or whatever. The player could of just gotten extremely unlucky with the turn out or the other player just happened to make exceptional reads that costed the other player + any number of factors included based off player's approach.

Sometimes people just don't like a particular matchup in general even if your character has answers for.

I don’t based solely off that. Or else Alpha would be much higher. But for me, I generally base it off of tools, simplicity v. complexity of character, & how they make the system work for them in a tournament setting. It’s why I don’t generally look at 1 time use or whatever in tourneys. Rachel would possibly be S because of that. But multiple use, what the character does given a certain scenario or MU and what’s the potential that the character has for future use. Plus even if I was to base it off tourney results, there are characters whom I’ve seen go the distance (Akira, Bayman, Gen Fu, etc.). All of whom, I placed accordingly. I can’t go by deathmatch all the way because we don’t get 10-20 games to identify what an opponent does. Given, I think that would be the best way to see where a character is strong all the way. But that’s not a luxury for me. I hope I explained myself better.
 
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