Release 6++ Gameplay Overhaul - Skies Of Vengeance 4.1 hotfix

[Twin_T]

you're not the first to mention it but I can't really tell what's going on mashing buttons in primal fury. This game is pretty incomprehensible so far in a way that tekken, MK, pit fighter, tao feng, and so on weren't. no tutorial because it's a 20 year old fighting game of course, so even if i stick with it for a couple hours i wouldn't be able to properly evaluate the system. I'll take your word for it that they managed to do something that makes mechanical sense that fits in with everything else in the game since the built all the systems around it instead of making a bunch of iterations without and then adding it to a new under-budgeted DLC sales vehicle.

even if i wanted to do a meter mechanic I don't think it would make sense contorting doa to fit a super mode where you'd get at most 4 moves because of the limitations of meter cost opcodes.

This is a guide playlist from an active Bloody Roar player explaining the ins and outs of the game mechanics. The rest could be found through his channel or HyperbeastsTV.
They are the main ones I know of who upload high-level gameplay. The game does have depth, but being an aged fighter with its last release being a blowout, and a bleak future, there's just not enough interest for it to get the attention to take seriously in a bigger competitive market.

 

[CFW]

any word on the next update?

 

[Rev_an]

any word on the next update?

i think i'm building it tonight. i have to flip a couple bytes to add tracking to some (i think only three) old moves that didn't get it during doa d -> doa 5 development and then go through all ~90 line items to make sure the new changes actually take, and see who isn't too busy getting ready for frosty faustings for testing.



The issue tracker has a terse draft of what will become the patchnotes assuming everything works reasonably or is close enough to fix rather than push to update 3. some of the nyotengu stuff is a little weird but i have a clip of h+k k whiffing on-hit in doa 4 i can publish later, so maybe that's fine.

Dead or Alive 6++ issues and tasks

Sheet1 known issues,suggestions (NO PROMISES),update 3 probably,system changes i know how to do,food for thought/stuff we don't know how to do,technical adjustments lisa headbutt whiff determined to be legitimate or unreproducible,christie - not sure if stance guard is right ,add a noise to sid...

docs.google.com

 

[Rev_an]

did a short stream of the function test, have some stuff to address as now marked in red or yellow in the issue tracker.

the kokoro guard cancels are interesting https://clips.twitch.tv/CautiousWiseDeerTakeNRG-FPx8T-zppryrAq-z

 

[Rev_an]

update 2 is live

 

[CFW]

Thanks for putting Rachel’s 214p+k back i do not understand why they took that out in the first place. She’s feeling very complete when it comes to her move set.

 

[KasumiLover]

Know I'm super late but I wanted to say Rev that I immensely enjoy the ++ update and changes you did! I was skeptical at first since I wasn't feeling the Kasumi nerfs but I started liking them over time since she can now play a different way but with an overhaul in her ground pressure, I love her ++ iteration. I also like Tamaki in ++ too and all the characters have good enough changes and added old moves to really bandage the lack of meter which I think ++ is solid enough to not need.


Some more changes I would suggest tho is simple: old moves, that was one of my fave parts of the update since it added alot of options for characters, I remember reading somewhere in the forums that they didn't feel Ayane's added 236P and 214P were useful… I laughed tbh since she now has two useful mid level high crushes with range she can use, and her 2KK is pretty cool too, loved that from Dimensions. I also like Mai's old PL being in the game too, it's telegraphed but I love the ability to special cancel from it. All the other characters got old stuff back too which I loved, especially with Christie's old Jakeiho stance and it's options. That was probably one of my favorite additions


I think some changes I'd like to see is some Kasumi old moves, I've played every Kasumi iteration to date so if you need someone who's palpable with her combo routes and balance I'd be happy to test her old moves in pre launch patch versions, I'd love to see her old 4P+K back and maybe the potential of her old vanilla doa5 string PPPK or 3PK back as maybe PPPH+K and maybe her old PP6K6K as PP6KH+K/6KH+K. All I do is tech Kasumi so I can definitely show you her rewards from them.


I'd also like a mechanic that lets the player use the meter mechanics but more as comebacks when at about 50% life or lower. Since a BH costed half meter, maybe make the player be able to use it when they're down to half their health but if they use it they lose the ability to use their BB/BB cancel which I think could be available at about 20-30% life.

 

[Rev_an]

yeah glad you're liking it, thanks. i think a lot of that solidness is just DOA being good and not needing so much extra.

i'll eventually do some work on launch heights and such to help break up max damage, wall carry, oki and stage control a bit more, and hopefully that'll bring some purpose to more moves.

same with some kasumi moves but i've got a bunch of stuff to do with colliders first. Crapo made some similar suggestions a while back and i've got better access to the doa 3 and 4 data than at the beginning of this, so it'll be easier to identify some of this stuff. string enders are usually fine, there's like a 2k 2k in there that'll probably stay out and the doa 4 wall runs don't have animation data. I'll be in touch but it'll be a few weeks, i'm particularly interested in pp6p6k not being the go-to at the wall, but there are a variety of ways to achieve that.

i'm not gonna touch supers or comeback mechanics, I don't care for them in 3D on principle, the slots are sequential which will be convenient for animation swaps someday, and nobody knows how to change meter gain or costs (besides the 3 values in use). Likewise with how the old life% override worked, or if that could be changed from 50% to some other value. Mai doesn't get actual PL out of that move and I didn't have to change anything,

 

[Rob]

I'd also like a mechanic that lets the player use the meter mechanics but more as comebacks when at about 50% life or lower.

Your first post in months and you come in with this low energy shit?

I think you need to go back on vacation.

 

[deathofaninja]

Your first post in months and you come in with this low energy shit?

I think you need to go back on vacation.

Are you playing ++ now?

 

[KasumiLover]

Your first post in months and you come in with this low energy shit?

I think you need to go back on vacation.

You haven't changed much from what I've read of your posts in the forums, good to see you're still the same :-D

It was just an idea tho, I'll acknowledge your opinion nonetheless. I'm ready for anything related for ++ tho, it's been a really nice switch up for the characters

 

[Rob]

Are you playing ++ now?

Of course not, just like how everyone else isn't playing this garbage either.

It's funny how Americans can never just embrace a game for what it is. They always want to change it so it caters to them.

 

[deathofaninja]

Of course not, just like how everyone else isn't playing this garbage either.

It's funny how Americans can never just embrace a game for what it is. They always want to change it so it caters to them.

Nobody is forcing you to stay or play and your annoying and repetitious comments haven't exactly canceled the project.

 

[Rob]

If you'll notice, I haven't even bothered to respond to the newest update. I simply don't care. I was just here to jeer KL.

 

[deathofaninja]

If you'll notice, I haven't even bothered to respond to the newest update. I simply don't care. I was just here to jeer KL.

I'm well aware you're a provoking jackass and don't need a recap.

 

[KasumiLover]

Oh @Rev_an just a few small things i noticed. It may be because of adjusted colliders but sometimes Tamaki's KP will whiff at close range when the K hits, and Kasumi's 7P buff against BTed foes is great but the positioning is annoyingly strict, like I can do the set up like 5 times and may only get it twice since the attacks goes through them at times and causes Kasumi to miss her 66P.

And what attacks from Momiji did you mention Tamaki had in her files? I don't think Tamaki needs to be mobile and have the more quick attacks Momij does per say since Aikido is more focused on the defensive softer side of counters and reversing but I could see Tamaki maybe having Momiji's 2H+K as maybe 1H+K and I also could see her having Momiji's 6H+K as her 6H+K, but maybe just reduce the GB frames to +1, it'd be a nice but still fair GB like her 8PP

And for Kasumi's 6PK in stun, could maybe a frame be added for the stun advantage? It's OK now and I don't mind the change but her 6P is the other option she can use to continue the stun but unless you're near a wall it'll miss because of the poor reach, a frame being added could allow her 4P

 

[Rev_an]

Oh @Rev_an just a few small things i noticed. It may be because of adjusted colliders but sometimes Tamaki's KP will whiff at close range when the K hits, and Kasumi's 7P buff against BTed foes is great but the positioning is annoyingly strict, like I can do the set up like 5 times and may only get it twice since the attacks goes through them at times and causes Kasumi to miss her 66P.

And what attacks from Momiji did you mention Tamaki had in her files? I don't think Tamaki needs to be mobile and have the more quick attacks Momij does per say since Aikido is more focused on the defensive softer side of counters and reversing but I could see Tamaki maybe having Momiji's 2H+K as maybe 1H+K and I also could see her having Momiji's 6H+K as her 6H+K, but maybe just reduce the GB frames to +1, it'd be a nice but still fair GB like her 8PP

And for Kasumi's 6PK in stun, could maybe a frame be added for the stun advantage? It's OK now and I don't mind the change but her 6P is the other option she can use to continue the stun but unless you're near a wall it'll miss because of the poor reach, a frame being added could allow her 4P

i'm changing a bunch of colliders in in the next update but if you've got a specific example of tamaki's KP having problems i'll look at it.

kasumi 7P has some sauce on it that makes it go through the opponent to look cool at certain distances and i don't think i can mess with that without ruining it. If you can't find anything for the wrong-facing limbo situation then it's probably better to just remove the limbo.'

if you take a list of momiji's moves and inputs and remove all the ones that tamaki has an input (6p, 6pk, 1p, etc) then what's left will be duplicated in tamaki's data, but with no input and sometimes a missing animation or SFX. For example, momiji's running h+k doesn't animate properly but it still activates a leg hitbox and applies the high knockback and does damage etc, while other things like this weird leftover part of an 8p+k ground stomp that looks like kasumi 9p and some 6kp looking move still animate i'm probably not going to make tamaki into a whole-ass ninja but i might put the second hit of 1pp into a mid-mid string or some low kick as a new 1pk string since i was trying to do 1p ->2h+k earlier that somebody suggested but the animation blending wasn't strong enough and it looked terrible.

Note that none of that momiji/tamaki stuff has to do with the bass 66h+k thing i showed, that one involves swapping files with redelbe, not just alex's mod tools and is like 50x as much work as adding followup interval to a move and writing an input for a move that the character already has that invokes an animation the game already associates with the character.

adjusting critical stuns is kinda messy because advantage is determined indirectly by the relative length of the attack and stun animations. Can't just change stun animations because those are mostly shared by everyone and making kasumi plus an extra frame there would make everybody else plus an extra frame in a bunch of situations we didn't look at if they have tracking mids that do that stun. Can't "just" shorten recovery because that affects whiff punishment, makes the interpolation on blockstun look bad, and might mess with strings.

If you've got more time than sense, you could look at frame data, take the advantage listed and add the recovery frames and all but one active frame, and that's how long the stun animation is, and if you compare all the stuns maybe there's an appropriate stun animation for a tracking mid kick to apply that's between 45 (3k) and 50 (ballerina) frames long to use. I might do that in my spreadsheet eventually since it would do all the math for us but it's low priority and i'd have to reformat how the frame data is listed since [10 (2) 15] is bad for formulas and it's probably more sensible to list the ID of the stun and reference the duration from somewhere else. Who wants to teach me SQL or something?

 

[deathofaninja]

If I could help with bringing characters or stages I most certainly would.

Leon, Genfu, Alpha and the VFs.

I like the different move inclusions and interruption of the meter the best, but whatever comes out I'll check out. You can't get much worse than DOA6 Vanilla ground game (although I think the ground throws were well implemented), so any improvements to that are always welcomed.

Also, I don't think the meter is the worst thing. Just because I do not like it doesn't mean I haven't seen it used effectively at tournaments and whatnot. I just think BH should cost the whole meter and step should take half.

 

[KasumiLover]

If I could help with bringing characters or stages I most certainly would.

Leon, Genfu, Alpha and the VFs.

I like the different move inclusions and interruption of the meter the best, but whatever comes out I'll check out. You can't get much worse than DOA6 Vanilla ground game (although I think the ground throws were well implemented), so any improvements to that are always welcomed.

Also, I don't think the meter is the worst thing. Just because I do not like it doesn't mean I haven't seen it used effectively at tournaments and whatnot. I just think BH should cost the whole meter and step should take half.

That part, I think break holds should have a higher meter cost since they're just as strong as BBs, that advantage I'm sure had helped us all out once in a tough situation xD it just needs a higher cost to sate its potential reward.

For now tho I'm fine with no meter in ++, it makes the game feel closer to DOA5 imo

 

[Rev_an]

If I could help with bringing characters or stages I most certainly would.

Leon, Genfu, Alpha and the VFs.

If somebody wanted to contribute a lot without writing any code or dealing with hex editors, getting us in touch with somebody who knows more about the .g1a animation format would help a ton. maybe the modding communities for other modern koei games have discovered things about the .g1a file format that we don't know about. Usually that sort of knowledge would show up on xentax but all i have is the tool from loverslab that converts a model and an animation into a .fbx and a third-hand anecdote about somebody trying to edit a finger position in an animation and the game freaking out about it.

at some point we need workflow like:

rip animation from old game -> load animation in some program -> save animation in doa 6 format -> modify the anim ID::file name database so the game can see the new file -> moveset editing like i already do to have the correct inputs, properties etc on the new moves -> modify a bunch of databases to make it usable

we're missing the third step, and i'm not sure how many database and asset edits would be needed to add another box on the character select screen or make all the other little UI stuff show up like the portraits, name under the lifebar, checkbox in random select... The old cheat engine boss raidou method would be easier to get working for a "new" character but that's unreasonable to ask of players.