Release 6++ Gameplay Overhaul - Skies Of Vengeance 4.1 hotfix

[Rev_an]

started code work on update 2. i don't really have an ETA but it'll probably be code-complete next week and then public release will depend on playtester availability over the holiday and how many of these new tamaki strings are natural combos.

phase 3-way teleports and modifying a bunch of knockdowns to be ground hit vulnerable as soon as you refuse to get up probably won't be in this one. maaaybe the momiji camera will get fixed, it depends what's actually still causing that and since it's only cosmetic as far as i know it's hard to justify the time.

 

[deathofaninja]

What are the new strings for Tamaki?

 

[Rev_an]

What are the new strings for Tamaki?

they're listed in the issue tracker

tamaki new string 1_p k doing 2h+k (reserving 1pk for a high?)

tamaki new string 66p k, doing 8k

tamaki new strings pp p+k doing p+k etc

tamaki new string 6pp p and 6p+k p doing 8p etc

and here's a jacked up clip of pp p+k p in the prototyping phase where I simply used cheat engine to change what ppp does, so the input log is "incorrect" and the doohickey hasn't been edited to tell the game to blend between pp and p+k so it looks a bit stilted https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme.../1051801154020982854/tamaki_pp_pkp_string.mp4

the way I add followup moves (including old moves like tina pp4p) they come with any second order followups they already had. it would actually be more work to make e.g. tamaki pp p+k not carry on with the p+k strings.


edit: after some review i don't think there's a suitable high kick available including the momiji moves she inherited, to put on 1pk as a low-high knockback.

 

[Malfury]

people wanting leifang h+k to juggle bound but it's kinda fast for that (diego's is the only legit one) and juggle bound moves that can hit so low look kinda gross as we now see sometimes from kasumi.

adding juggle bound to a bunch of launchers that didn't have it before also doesn't seem good, the movies have gotten too long and making all these juggle enders the same would reduce variety rather than increase it.

if i could i'd make all juggle bounds be or start from highs but e.g. rig's mid and whatever else that can kinda scoop you into a juggle bound isn't enough of a problem to justify the time looking at every character and finding suitable high or high-mid strings

If that's the case, any chance of bringing back some of her nerfed properties from DOA5? Like 7K guard breaking, 6P+K stun on NH, etc. Also, can she have 64P back since it was tied to fatal stun?

 

[lopedo]

Can we bring Nyotengu to DOA2:U Tengu status? It would be very simple. 8K= 2 frame, always high counter, launcher. 7K= 1 frame launcher that automatically wall splats. Taunt button= 0 frame start up, ignores block, does the crutch. No? Okay.

 

[Rev_an]

If that's the case, any chance of bringing back some of her nerfed properties from DOA5? Like 7K guard breaking, 6P+K stun on NH, etc. Also, can she have 64P back since it was tied to fatal stun?

yeah old properties are fair game if they didn't pull a kokoro 214p/236p or ayane 3h+k on the moves and the old values were reasonable. i just gotta find stuff like 64P and it's not always easy.

Can we bring Nyotengu to DOA2:U Tengu status? It would be very simple. 8K= 2 frame, always high counter, launcher. 7K= 1 frame launcher that automatically wall splats. Taunt button= 0 frame start up, ignores block, does the crutch. No? Okay.

2/10, do better.

 

[deathofaninja]

Hoping for returning characters at some point. Alpha, Genfu, Bankotsubo, Leon. Can we expect something outside of move tweaks in the future?

 

[Rev_an]

Hoping for returning characters at some point. Alpha, Genfu, Bankotsubo, Leon. Can we expect something outside of move tweaks in the future?

uh sure it's the holidays, i can drop some previews

John Carpenter's The Thing is a christmas move, right? obviously whatever JRPG monster this is wouldn't be usable but DOA modding is ahead of some of the other KT games and they can't easily just pick out the humanoid animations from the dump of some 40,000 .g1a files they have. We also don't have any legacy character animations in the compatible file format except for the ones that happen to be in doa 6 already, so maybe gen fu is possible but his throws would be "wrong" and he'd be missing anything they didn't put on eliot, honoka, or raidou.

This is the requires redelbe stuff i was talking about, I can swap animation files into the game but we don't know how to do brand new ones yet so the "budget" is however many existing animation files are available. this is the other part of my reluctance to use fatal rush, rehabilitating it would be a lot of work as i said, but also it's a very convenient set of animation files already associated to each character to swap completely new stuff onto. Those two animations are from one of the final fantasy games and these particular files aren't exactly useful to us but hypothetically we could add "i'm here to kill chaos" guy to the game. I won't, because it would be way too much work and i'm not blowing a character slot on that since this tech would require replacing an existing character. As much as i'd love to delete the lolis we probably only have the three story mode enemies to work with here, prototype raidou, boss raidou, and the extra phase 4. It's a little bit not the most useful because you need to cheat engine swap to get to those characters even if we replaced a bunch of models animtions and sounds with redelbe.

Next steps on that and the big hangup for adding leon or anybody else is converting old animations to the new format and nobody has the tools for maya, blender, or whatever to convert or create these .g1a files the game would be able to read. We can't even properly edit the existing ones and get them back into the game yet so the little fixes like making raidou's jab a little bit lower are not currently possible.

we would also need to dig into some pretty arcane UI modding to add the actual buttons to character select and the other menus that would let you pick our import character and until we have that figured out it would at best be an offline only thing.

I also broke the data silo that prevented putting x move on y character, all that stuff honoka got she already had in her data, i didn't take lisa 1kkp/1kkpp from lisa's data and put it on honoka somehow and all those old doa 3/4/5 moves were existing in the data, as I said we can't convert that stuff ourselves (yet?), Team Ninja had already adapted those animation and made a new controller for honoka so 1kkpp uses her voice and correct hiboxes etc, and those legacy moves were presumably converted with some automated process.

This clip is a combination of work with alex's tools and a redelbe swap of some rdb (database) file instead of a .g1a animation file swap so that bass's character data can "see" the animation file for this kasumi move. This means i can get boss raidou moves onto regular any move in the game onto raidou (allowing for skeleton limitations. honoka's jab doesn't look right on him), or we could partially recreate naotora, or if the camera behaves I could give everyone an izuna, etc. it's also still pointing to kasumi's voice clip file instead of bass's, which I can change i just didn't bother because it would've taken too long to document the hex IDs of the voice clip database objects and for character identity reasons i don't expect to do this kind of swap often, if at all.

I've confirmed that these kinds of swaps work online, but i'm reluctant to tell people they have to install redelbe because it's a bunch of extra steps and it would be harder on anyone who wanted to switch between retail and modded gameplay if we swap onto any animation that's accessible in the base game.

 

[crapoZK]

Because now the same people I would have been playing against on retail are in ++ lobbies or other regular retail players joining my lobby asking if it's ++. Only one person has switched versions after I told them I don't have the mod.

So yes, it has affected my ability to get games with others.

I'm not tryna be that guy but if your experience on PC is that everyone's playing 6++.... What is that telling you?

Anyway I really don't know how you lot have the strength to keep arguing about this shit. It's been like 2 months. Some of y'all are talking about how you "don't really care" about the mod but spend 2 whole months stressing about it. Make it make sense lmfao? Not gonna tell you what to go and do with your lives but PLEASE give it a rest for a couple of months.

people wanting leifang h+k to juggle bound but it's kinda fast for that (diego's is the only legit one) and juggle bound moves that can hit so low look kinda gross as we now see sometimes from kasumi.

Have you tested KH+K or is that also too low for juggle bound?

I've confirmed that these kinds of swaps work online, but i'm reluctant to tell people they have to install redelbe because it's a bunch of extra steps and it would be harder on anyone who wanted to switch between retail and modded gameplay if we swap onto any animation that's accessible in the base game.

Looks amazing, I think most players on PC have redelbe installed but I think you might wanna skip on giving characters moves from others before it gets crazy in your message box.

 

[Rev_an]

I'm not tryna be that guy but if your experience on PC is that everyone's playing 6++.... What is that telling you?

Anyway I really don't know how you lot have the strength to keep arguing about this shit. It's been like 2 months. Some of y'all are talking about how you "don't really care" about the mod but spend 2 whole months stressing about it. Make it make sense lmfao? Not gonna tell you what to go and do with your lives but PLEASE give it a rest for a couple of months.


Have you tested KH+K or is that also too low for juggle bound?


Looks amazing, I think most players on PC have redelbe installed but I think you might wanna skip on giving characters moves from others before it gets crazy in your message box.

that leifang stuff gets kinda ugly. you don't need to hexedit anything to see when it would hit and estimate how that would look.

it's tough to add bounds without taking the old one away, it's tough even if you do... k h+k would be much easier to get on heavier characters than 1pkk, for example, and I'm inclined to go the other way on that. There's way too much going on to get there but it would be nice if every launcher had weightclass juggles.

it's also hard to have the patch 1.19 juggle knockdowns coexisting with the juggle bounds and the wall OS, because you can usually do juggle-bound -> juggle-1.19 knockdown and the main reason to avoid a juggle bound now is the wall, but you probably get better oki and damage from the wall than from the oki knockdown. Changing the ground vulnerability like i'm working on will help some of that, as will normalizing juggle damage once there's an acceptable method for that but juggle 1.19 doesn't seem like it has a place in the system right now. I guess it's a reactable grounded state? Might be more interesting if i can do the same thing that prevents two juggle bounds to prevent juggle bound into 1.19 so you have to pass up the juggle bounding move if you want that oki instead of the bound OS.

 

[Rob]

I'm not tryna be that guy but if your experience on PC is that everyone's playing 6++.... What is that telling you?

Anyway I really don't know how you lot have the strength to keep arguing about this shit. It's been like 2 months. Some of y'all are talking about how you "don't really care" about the mod but spend 2 whole months stressing about it. Make it make sense lmfao? Not gonna tell you what to go and do with your lives but PLEASE give it a rest for a couple of months.

DOA6 on PC was barely active for a blip when the mod came out. But the longer folks played the more they realized just how boring it is. Very few, if any, like the mod as of now.

And now DOA6 on PC is dead. No lobbies for retail or the mod.

What's hilarious to me is that revan is still obsessing over his dead mod when nobody gives a fuck about it anymore lmao. So I'm just here for the laughs at how much of a life revan is wasting.

 

[Rob]

Also one thing that cracks me up the most is when revan goes on about "writing code".

My dude really thinks he's so smart and so knowledgeable about DOA6 when all of the hard work is already done for him. He's piggybacking off of someone's work. He has no actual knowledge of the game internally other than what Alex already did. The hard work is not removing hit capsules, the hard work is decompiling the collision routines.

Is that a bad thing? Nope, but stop acting like an authority.

 

[Rev_an]

Also one thing that cracks me up the most is when revan goes on about "writing code".

My dude really thinks he's so smart and so knowledgeable about DOA6 when all of the hard work is already done for him. He's piggybacking off of someone's work. He has no actual knowledge of the game internally other than what Alex already did. The hard work is not removing hit capsules, the hard work is decompiling the collision routines.

Is that a bad thing? Nope, but stop acting like an authority.

i'm the second most knowledgeable person about those internal workings outside of people who worked on the game and despite that have repeatedly referred to myself as a "script kiddie".

I'm the only person in the world who knew how to make that bass clip when i made it and being able to do that at all is pretty significant, but by all means keep belittling me and my contribution to the logical portion of this process, some people pay good money for such treatment and here you are giving it to me for free.

oh, you also can't see lobbies that are full, and since i joined on emann having a 21 streak just now i bet this lobby existed when you made your other post.

 

[AlexXsWx]

He has no actual knowledge of the game internally other than what Alex already did. The hard work is not removing hit capsules, the hard work is decompiling the collision routines.

Please stop talking about things you know nothing about. Revan contributed quite a lot to understanding the file format, in some areas he is even more knowledgable than me. And he continues to chip away at the format.

 

[crapoZK]

What's hilarious to me is that revan is still obsessing over his dead mod when nobody gives a fuck about it anymore lmao. So I'm just here for the laughs at how much of a life revan is wasting.

I can't lie this has to be the biggest cope I've ever seen on this website.

that leifang stuff gets kinda ugly. you don't need to hexedit anything to see when it would hit and estimate how that would look.

it's tough to add bounds without taking the old one away, it's tough even if you do... k h+k would be much easier to get on heavier characters than 1pkk, for example, and I'm inclined to go the other way on that. There's way too much going on to get there but it would be nice if every launcher had weightclass juggles.

it's also hard to have the patch 1.19 juggle knockdowns coexisting with the juggle bounds and the wall OS, because you can usually do juggle-bound -> juggle-1.19 knockdown and the main reason to avoid a juggle bound now is the wall, but you probably get better oki and damage from the wall than from the oki knockdown. Changing the ground vulnerability like i'm working on will help some of that, as will normalizing juggle damage once there's an acceptable method for that but juggle 1.19 doesn't seem like it has a place in the system right now. I guess it's a reactable grounded state? Might be more interesting if i can do the same thing that prevents two juggle bounds to prevent juggle bound into 1.19 so you have to pass up the juggle bounding move if you want that oki instead of the bound OS.

Yeah forget about it then. I haven't played U1 Leifang yet since I'm taking a break from gaming in general - but I trust what you're saying.

 

[Rob]

Please stop talking about things you know nothing about. Revan contributed quite a lot to understanding the file format, in some areas he is even more knowledgable than me. And he continues to chip away at the format.

Yeah helping with the easy stuff.

 

[AlexXsWx]

Yeah helping with the easy stuff.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. As someone who first-hand decompiled the collision routines and witnessed Revan doing work on hitboxes through the lens of discord PMs I feel qualified to say that you're wrong. But I do understand that that's not what you are really talking about - you're just trolling.

 

[Rob]

Sure lol

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Spoiler: On meter mechanics

Tekken 7. Soul Calibur 6. Dead or Alive 6... All three major 3D games have meter mechanics now *and the implementation of all of them sucks*. Team Ninja, Project Soul, and Harada — again, teams of professionals with years of experience — did not improve their respective game series by the inclusion of these mechanics. Soul Calibur 6 is worse than SC 2. DOA 6 is worse than most previous games. I'm not a tekken player but for all the complaints about rage arts etc, I assume there's a better one of those.

My head is big enough trying to do this project in the first place, I'm not going to also claim to be able to solve a problem that those folks set up for themselves and didn't get right. If you think you can solve that feel free to try, though I recommend learning from others' mistakes and to not waste your time.

Dead or Alive didn't have meter mechanics before 2019 and didn't have supers before 2012, we have examples of several DOA games working and being good without those things, and DOA has enough going on with stage hazards, the triangle system, free step dodge, and critical holds. Removing meter entirely is the safest choice because we know the core systems work wonderfully without it.

ah I'm surprised no one mentioned this but kek... meter good in Bloody Roar

 

[Rev_an]

ah I'm surprised no one mentioned this but kek... meter good in Bloody Roar

you're not the first to mention it but I can't really tell what's going on mashing buttons in primal fury. This game is pretty incomprehensible so far in a way that tekken, MK, pit fighter, tao feng, and so on weren't. no tutorial because it's a 20 year old fighting game of course, so even if i stick with it for a couple hours i wouldn't be able to properly evaluate the system. I'll take your word for it that they managed to do something that makes mechanical sense that fits in with everything else in the game since the built all the systems around it instead of making a bunch of iterations without and then adding it to a new under-budgeted DLC sales vehicle.

even if i wanted to do a meter mechanic I don't think it would make sense contorting doa to fit a super mode where you'd get at most 4 moves because of the limitations of meter cost opcodes.