peachyO
Member
thank you kindly. i've been doing this, but didn't realize it had a name
DOA5U Bass General Discussion: Champion Edition
- Thread starter UncleKitchener
- Start date
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
that's fucking dirty.
I've been adding , then , then as part of my wall game. Not for any reason other than the fact it looks fancy.
, then , then as part of my wall game. Not for any reason other than the fact it looks fancy.
thank you kindly. i've been doing this, but didn't realize it had a name
The 'blender' is the force-teching loop where both options give advantage to the attacker. Known moreso for Helena in vanilla DOA5. It's safe to say Bass had this in DOA5 as well, just we didn't have to use it due to his guaranteed pick-ups. Now that he has lost those from juggle we have to use it, which has its alternative (missing the pickup and whiffing
h+p give less advantage than if you get the pick-up. So yeah, there's a (frequent) chance that you won't get +13 but you'll still get +7ish which is enough to still apply pressure for him.
peachyO
Member
thank you as well. i know i can always count on you to illuminate and educateThe 'blender' is the force-teching loop where both options give advantage to the attacker. Known moreso for Helena in vanilla DOA5. It's safe to say Bass had this in DOA5 as well, just we didn't have to use it due to his guaranteed pick-ups. Now that he has lost those from juggle we have to use it, which has its alternative (missing the pickup and whiffing
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
That sucks.
No, that's actually a buff because now you can do full Dive Bomber chain without having to worry about the floor breaking with the first powerbomb.
One thing I've been having major issues is the pickup on back-turned opponents and it's either hurtbox dependent or it's something that just works with perfect timing because I end up missing it most of the time. Anyone got any tips that could help with a consistant pickup?
Also, despite the new options out of BT, Bass ' on block in pretty much a no-go on block because once your initiate the move, no matter what you do, you are going to get hit out of all your current options with a simple jab. That is probably something which people should only do during stun because once people catch onto it when it's blocked, you're probably going to die. The only thing people would probably not do is throw or OH now. That to them is less risky than just pressing buttons once they block, because a jab would pretty much be guaranteed after .
Bringing back the BT OH will def not fix any of this, but it'll help with actually making Bass a major player once he's in BT. That'll set him in the same tier as Lisa at least.
pickup on back-turned opponents and it's either hurtbox dependent or it's something that just works with perfect timing because I end up missing it most of the time. Anyone got any tips that could help with a consistant pickup?Also, despite the new options out of BT, Bass '
on block in pretty much a no-go on block because once your initiate the move, no matter what you do, you are going to get hit out of all your current options with a simple jab. That is probably something which people should only do during stun because once people catch onto it when it's blocked, you're probably going to die. The only thing people would probably not do is throw or OH now. That to them is less risky than just pressing buttons once they block, because a jab would pretty much be guaranteed after .Bringing back the BT OH will def not fix any of this, but it'll help with actually making Bass a major player once he's in BT. That'll set him in the same tier as Lisa at least.
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So, like
, guess if they're going to do a wake-up kick or not and you might get a pickup if they do? I hope I'm getting it right here, because if they do tech away and you end up whiffing the grab, you could be at -5 to -10 and punishable.
I think decreasing the pushback on landing 6T would be reasonable buff. It would help Bass against characters that can attack out of disadvantage and crush his mids (lei fang, helena, ayane).
New wall combo:
> > This was also possible in DOA5, but I guess we never really incorporated it. Does not work against Super-Heavies. It's rather inconsistent against the heavies ( ). Well, it's actually inconsistent in general anyway, but if you get the timing down, it's rather effective.
Also, Kitchen Push away ( ) against a wall can lead to and on all characters. In DOA5, this was only possible on light and medium characters. Now it's a universal combo.
Back in Vanilla, I found this combo which I think does max damage on light characters after Hi-Counter charge OH:
:[[H]]::[[P]]: > > > >
Gives possible Blender as they're still close enough for a throw after.
Let's get down to the blender:
These are the discoveries I've made in the lab and tips and tricks which other Bass players came up with. If I've made a mistake or there's something which you can contribute, please share.
First of all, the blender is pretty much guaranteed after in a juggle but not if your opponent is launched too high up. You will immediately go into the blender mix-up and depending on your launch height, you'll have to choose the right tool to counter the opponent. It's not an easy situation for either of you as on one hand, they can still potentially press a button and beat you out of whatever you where doing, but on the other hand, you have access to all your throws and you're in throws range, so you also have the liberty to do whatever if they decide to block or SS.
What's important is that you know how much frame advantage you have after a particular combos when you go into the blender because the frame advantage you get depends on launch height, the type of launcher or the combos you use. Another very important factor is that this is also character dependent because in this game. This is very important if you want to know which tools works best against which characters. Some characters also have crazy hit-boxes where they can crush a lot of things like GenFu, Ayane or Lei Fang. So, it's important to know those character-specific things.
Also, Christie is a bitch. She had retarded hit-box and why is she a mid weight in the first place? TN, you are huge trolls and you are horrible at balancing your games.
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, let's continue.
It's important for your to go into the lab and experiment for yourselves, but I'll try and give your some helpful starters:
Let's start with launch heights and why they really matter here; launch heights pretty much dictate how much frame advantage you're gonna get. The higher the launch height for a, the more + frames for you and more options for you. Keep in mind that if you perform if your launch height is too high, you would potentially lose your chance to perform a blender, so try to get used to doing at the appropriate time.
For the purpose of this experiment, pick Christie as your opponent and try to attack after the blender:
I'd recommend performing these on normal hit for the purpose of this test:
> > > Blender
> > Blender
> > Blender
> > Blender
> > Blender
etc.
You'll notice that the always knocks down the same way, but the resulting frame advantage you get from someone teching this is different and it ends up being character-dependent sometimes. On some light characters you end up getting more frame advantage than the mediums and this is the result of the launch height into . The higher the launch, the less recovery you'll end up with after and the sooner you can attempt a low throw.
Okay, that was probably a horrible way of explaining it (and I'm sure Mr. Wah would have a better explanation that mine), but basically you'll end up with more frame advantage if you had launched the character higher and lighter characters end up being launch higher than heavier ones. This is really obvious when you test some quick strikes against Kasumi and Christie; setups that end up working against Kasumi, won't work on Christie, despite them both having the same startup speed on their basic strikes.
I'd highly recommend testing these setups against characters you have trouble with.
So far, I've found that you can categorize different Blender setups with the types of strikes you can use afterwards. On some characters, from a simple > you can get enough frame advantage to land strikes that are 15i like and . This works on all light character for example, even Kasumi. However, when testing the same thing on Christie, you have to tone down your strikes and go for basic 14i strikes instead like : and . She's a special case though and if you try the same setup with other mid-weights, you ought to get similar if not the same results as the majority of them are 10i jabbers.
In these situations, you can also take advantage of's high crushing properties, which normally won't be that useful in the neutral game. Keep in mind that it's rather shoddy, so sometimes it doesn't crush and you'd end up getting hit on counter hit. It's just something that would prove useful in this particular situations but has it's risks.
Some characters however have ways of completely ignoring this disadvantage by using moves with stupid crush poperties like GenFu's which can crush but not . If you know more stuff like this, then let me know.
For the reasons stated above, I think it's best if we develop combos that would be more suitable for blender setups. I've started testing and I'll post mine in another post.
> > This was also possible in DOA5, but I guess we never really incorporated it. Does not work against Super-Heavies. It's rather inconsistent against the heavies ( ). Well, it's actually inconsistent in general anyway, but if you get the timing down, it's rather effective.Also, Kitchen Push away (
) against a wall can lead to and on all characters. In DOA5, this was only possible on light and medium characters. Now it's a universal combo.Back in Vanilla, I found this combo which I think does max damage on light characters after Hi-Counter charge OH:
:[[H]]::[[P]]: > > > > Gives possible Blender as they're still close enough for a throw after
.Let's get down to the blender:
These are the discoveries I've made in the lab and tips and tricks which other Bass players came up with. If I've made a mistake or there's something which you can contribute, please share.
First of all, the blender is pretty much guaranteed after
in a juggle but not if your opponent is launched too high up. You will immediately go into the blender mix-up and depending on your launch height, you'll have to choose the right tool to counter the opponent. It's not an easy situation for either of you as on one hand, they can still potentially press a button and beat you out of whatever you where doing, but on the other hand, you have access to all your throws and you're in throws range, so you also have the liberty to do whatever if they decide to block or SS.What's important is that you know how much frame advantage you have after a particular combos when you go into the blender because the frame advantage you get depends on launch height, the type of launcher or the combos you use. Another very important factor is that this is also character dependent because in this game. This is very important if you want to know which tools works best against which characters. Some characters also have crazy hit-boxes where they can crush a lot of things like GenFu, Ayane or Lei Fang. So, it's important to know those character-specific things.
Also, Christie is a bitch. She had retarded hit-box and why is she a mid weight in the first place? TN, you are huge trolls and you are horrible at balancing your games.
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, let's continue.
It's important for your to go into the lab and experiment for yourselves, but I'll try and give your some helpful starters:
Let's start with launch heights and why they really matter here; launch heights pretty much dictate how much frame advantage you're gonna get. The higher the launch height for a
, the more + frames for you and more options for you. Keep in mind that if you perform if your launch height is too high, you would potentially lose your chance to perform a blender, so try to get used to doing at the appropriate time.For the purpose of this experiment, pick Christie as your opponent and try to attack after the blender:
I'd recommend performing these on normal hit for the purpose of this test:
> > > Blender > > Blender > > Blender > > Blender > > Blenderetc.
You'll notice that the
always knocks down the same way, but the resulting frame advantage you get from someone teching this is different and it ends up being character-dependent sometimes. On some light characters you end up getting more frame advantage than the mediums and this is the result of the launch height into . The higher the launch, the less recovery you'll end up with after and the sooner you can attempt a low throw.Okay, that was probably a horrible way of explaining it (and I'm sure Mr. Wah would have a better explanation that mine), but basically you'll end up with more frame advantage if you had launched the character higher and lighter characters end up being launch higher than heavier ones. This is really obvious when you test some quick strikes against Kasumi and Christie; setups that end up working against Kasumi, won't work on Christie, despite them both having the same startup speed on their basic strikes.
I'd highly recommend testing these setups against characters you have trouble with.
So far, I've found that you can categorize different Blender setups with the types of strikes you can use afterwards. On some characters, from a simple
> you can get enough frame advantage to land strikes that are 15i like and . This works on all light character for example, even Kasumi. However, when testing the same thing on Christie, you have to tone down your strikes and go for basic 14i strikes instead like : and . She's a special case though and if you try the same setup with other mid-weights, you ought to get similar if not the same results as the majority of them are 10i jabbers.In these situations, you can also take advantage of
's high crushing properties, which normally won't be that useful in the neutral game. Keep in mind that it's rather shoddy, so sometimes it doesn't crush and you'd end up getting hit on counter hit. It's just something that would prove useful in this particular situations but has it's risks.Some characters however have ways of completely ignoring this disadvantage by using moves with stupid crush poperties like GenFu's
which can crush but not . If you know more stuff like this, then let me know.For the reasons stated above, I think it's best if we develop combos that would be more suitable for blender setups. I've started testing and I'll post mine in another post.
Wish I had the mind for this sort of thing, especially before the Canadian East Coast Championships that I placed 4th at over the weekend.
The one combo I've been working on has been, (instead of ), to get a launch on mid-kick hold spammers. Haven't been able to try it out on medium or higher weights, but you get the idea.
The one combo I've been working on has been
, (instead of ), to get a launch on mid-kick hold spammers. Haven't been able to try it out on medium or higher weights, but you get the idea.
Why would you do
I must have missed that
was guaranteed. Thanks for clearing that up for me Wah.Yes, there is no reason for doing if connects. is guaranteed and so is . Not going for guaranteed damage is suicide.
if connects. is guaranteed and so is . Not going for guaranteed damage is suicide.Apparently, Alpha is so light that you can simply do > > . You can also just do stun > launch and .
While the scramble beam combos may be gone, you can still perform those same combos on Alpha.
> > . You can also just do stun > launch and .While the scramble beam combos may be gone, you can still perform those same combos on Alpha.
Seems like Bass' doesn't break wooden floors on the first slam. This is similar to how the charge OH doesn't break wooden floors with the first powerbomb. I'd consider this a slight buff for the move, even though the damage is still the same as DOA5 (80).
I've also found that after > > , a tends to connect on a recovering opponent. This is something which they would have to possibly roll to the back or to the sides to avoid, but the thing is that if this connects, then you've already done a whole lot of damage and the recovery of this move puts you at a safe distance from wake up kicks but close enough for mid-range strikes or just enough space for you to quickly dash in and get in their face. If you condition the opponent to roll backwards to avoid the strikes, then you can dash in and pick em up instead.
doesn't break wooden floors on the first slam. This is similar to how the charge OH doesn't break wooden floors with the first powerbomb. I'd consider this a slight buff for the move, even though the damage is still the same as DOA5 (80).I've also found that after
> > , a tends to connect on a recovering opponent. This is something which they would have to possibly roll to the back or to the sides to avoid, but the thing is that if this connects, then you've already done a whole lot of damage and the recovery of this move puts you at a safe distance from wake up kicks but close enough for mid-range strikes or just enough space for you to quickly dash in and get in their face. If you condition the opponent to roll backwards to avoid the strikes, then you can dash in and pick em up instead.