Button Mashing Works...

[Lulu]

Today I played some Rounds of King Of Fighters XIV & Street Fighter V with dear friends.

Now I have completed KOF's Tutorial and Familiarised myself with Street Fighter V enough to consider myself Semi-Competent.

But My button fashing friends Beat my ass... lol... they can't Throw a Hadoken if they're lives depended on it but beat me multiple times.... I think I won only once.

Pretty fucking annoying, right ? I mean thats how many people would feel. Especially if you put in alil time and effort to actually learn how the game is played. LoL... especially if your familiar with the name Daigo and your friends are not.

Well actually I didn't mind all that much because I had already gone through this with Dead or Alive a couple years ago. Its really not that uncommon for a player in training to get beaten by a Button Masher... the trick is to not let that discourage you. I've learned that if I continued to learn the game I would be profecient enough and know how to Squash out all the Randomness of Button Mashing and Make the fight move at the pace I want it to.

Oh... did I mention they had been drinking too ? LoL... even with compromised reactions I still lost.

 

[Lulu]

One of the things I've learned is its very difficult to punish button mashers especially in 2D Fighters since they don't forward jump at the appropriate distances for their character's air normals to connect... that makes using Anti-Air.

They use alot of safe normals.... generally its the special moves that are unsafe and if they don't use them I can't punish correctly. The pushback also makes it difficult to switch momentum in my favour...I can't even walk in and throw because I'l just eat a light normal in the Face.... even the shortest jab has better range than throws.


Ofcourse the key to beating them is to get THEM to get better at the game... if I can get them to play with Purpose... to jump in at the right distance... to not whipout Fireballs at point blank range. To Block.... like at all any kind of Blocking at all. To jump back to avoid getting thrown.

Then I can win by attempting to predict their choices and countering them...

If only I can just get them interested in Any Fighting Game.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Your problem is that you need to learn how to beat button-mashers, scrubs, and people that don't know what their doing.

If you do think you're better at these games than your opponents, and are losing to them, you're either: Not better than them at the games, overthinking your gameplan, not adapting to their gameplan (or lack thereof), or playing too honestly.

From the sounds of things, you're losing to these opponents because you're expecting them to play in a certain way, and since they're not doing that, you're not having much success against them. The biggest element that button-mashers rely on for victory is random luck and hoping they don't get countered in some way. To beat button-mashers, you need to take advantage of the fact that they don't respect advantages or standard meta. If they're doing jump-ins from too far away, let them do that until they get into a range where you can counterattack, punish them or retaliate appropriately in some way. If they like to whip out fireballs in point blank range, jump over them regularly then hit them with cross-ups. If they don't block at all, button-mash the shit out of them back and pressure them until they learn to block. If they can't avoid getting thrown, keep throwing them until they learn how to not get thrown anymore. Etc., etc.

You need to fight your opponents in accordance to how they're trying to fight you. You can't have this pre-conceived gameplan in your mind and expect it to work against every opponent. Adaptation is important. If you want your opponents to "get better", you need to give them a reason to "git gud" by punishing their illegitimate playstyles.

 

[Lulu]

Your problem is that you need to learn how to beat button-mashers, scrubs, and people that don't know what you're doing.

Yes indeed... I've learned that Scrubs and Mashers have the potential to be Very dangerous.... just by shear unpredictability alone.

If they like to whip out fireballs in point blank range, jump over them regularly then hit them with cross-ups.

I can't do this on Reaction (Infact no one can) and since neither I or my friends know when their going to whip out the Fireball I can't deliberately counter it.

If they don't block at all, button-mash the shit out of them back and pressure them until they learn to block.

While this does infact work... its definitely not how I want to play. I prefer to lose from playing with Intensionality than to win by mashing.

If they can't avoid getting thrown, keep throwing them until they learn how to not get thrown anymore. Etc., etc.

I haven't tried this with Light Command Throws (known for having plenty of Range in some cases) but for regular throws this doesn't work unless I'm right on top of them when they recover from a knock down or a Flip. Its range is way to short to whip it out in any other scenarios.... I haven't practiced my Meaty Setups Yet so even if I do get the throw its a crap shoot about whether I can continue the pressure from there or not.... and last but not least... Throwing in KOF is the most unintuitive thing ever. LoL... it has no whiffed throw animation because theres no dedicated throw button/s. its 100% Contextual.

You need to fight your opponents in accordance to how they're trying to fight you. You can't have this pre-conceived gameplan in your mind and expect it to work against every opponent. Adaption is important. If you want your opponents to "get better", you need to give them a reason to "git gud" by punishing their illegitimate playstyles.

I can only Punish their unsafe moves... which they don't know how to perform intentionally (Execution Barrier to the rescue) I can't punish them for being predictable because... well... they aren't playing predictably.

I don't go in to any fight with a preconceived gameplan other than "if you don't know what to do... just Block".

Theres no hope for me in KOF... I simply can't play that game.... the execution barrier is too high for me to get even a basic hop when I want one. But in Street Fighter theres hope. Just gotta Practice my Scenarios.

 

[illninofan]

If you do think you're better at these games than your opponents, and are losing to them, you're either: Not better than them at the games, overthinking your gameplan, not adapting to their gameplan (or lack thereof), or playing too honestly.

These!

And all of these have one thing in common: I'm not watching the damn fight! XD

I've made that mistake several times in my training against friends who haven't played the game as long as I have, just as @Lulu mentioned in the OP.

I'll think to myself, "Man, I've got all this knowledge about DOA, it'll be a cakewalk to beat my roomies!"

Smug as fuck, until:

...you get the idea.

Anyway, I feel like the single most important skill in my learning is simply keeping your eye on the opponent, which can be a challenge when the game moves at such high speeds.

Do this, make adjustments on the fly, react to what your opponent does, and feel comfortable using every tool in the box in every possible situation. Mistakes happen, so I adjust from there too.

Does this sound right?

 

[Argentus]

If they are mashing just back up and punish with long range pokes. You cant try to properly engage random flailing, thats why just mashing works so well, way more than anyone likes to admit.

So just back up and let them flail then wait for an opening to punish. Dont try anything complicated against them.

 

[Lulu]

If they are mashing just back up and punish with long range pokes. You cant try to properly engage random flailing, thats why just mashing works so well, way more than anyone likes to admit.

So just back up and let them flail then wait for an opening to punish. Dont try anything complicated against them.

LoL.... I got revenge with R. Mika....

Charge Drop Kick into Target Combo.... Chase'em down and hit them with 4 Brimstones into the corner..... Land a Meaty Lady Mika and that was that.


And now I have no one to play with anymore....

Double Edged Sword Yo !!!

 

[breathofflame34]

Sometimes I play Street Fighter 4, a game that I have played for a long time, with my dad, who has been playing SF since before I was born, He used to be able to get pretty far in the games, don't think he ever actually beat story mode in any of them tho. However now all he does is button mash, or use the same cheap move over and over, Blanka's electric crouch, Chun -Li's kick barrage, and E. Honda's quick punch barrage. THose are all he uses.Sadly I've lost to them many times, but there is a small amount of time in between each activation of the attavfck. A few frames where I can deaamage and break him off, allowing for a powerful combo.

 

[Lulu]

However now all he does is button mash, or use the same cheap move over and over, Blanka's electric crouch, Chun -Li's kick barrage, and E. Honda's quick punch barrage. THose are all he uses.

Then your Dad is WAAAAAAAAY ahead of my Friends. They don't bother with Special Moves. They litterally do nothing but spin the Analogue stick and press all the buttons at once.... if that doesn't work they spin the analogue in the other direction and press all the buttons even harder.

 

[Lulu]

Anyway, I feel like the single most important skill in my learning is simply keeping your eye on the opponent, which can be a challenge when the game moves at such high speeds.

Do this, make adjustments on the fly, react to what your opponent does, and feel comfortable using every tool in the box in every possible situation. Mistakes happen, so I adjust from there too.

Does this sound right?

I don't think thats going to help... trying to formulate a plan around something random is impractical. Sure your friends will whip out an unsafe move every now and then but they may do it at differen't ranges making it harder to punish.... especially for players who are in the learning phase such as you and me .

I think the most effective solution is to Find Something Cheap and Dirty and Abuse the living hell out of it....

When they get frustrated and say the game is Broken... simply tell them how to counter that cheap setup.....

If you can get them to consiously play with Intentionality then I think thats the first step to squashing out Random Moves.


In my Example with R. Mika all my friend had to do is ask how to avoid getting Grabbed by Mika's Brimstone. I'd have no problem telling them it can be avoided by jumping straight up and punishing the Recovery. Because I want them to jump with a purpose.... not to do it Randomly and catch me by surprise.

I feel like this is also why Cammy's Cannon Strike should be performed using instead of .

Perhaps I'm alone in this but I'm tired of neither playing not knowing whos at advantage after a cannon strike.

 

[Kensei_warlord]

Button mash waat? That cant be true....
Although sometimes I have some problem with them too, they cant go anywhere from there...
Somtimes they are so unpredictable, but yeah! they are just garbage...
Sometimes I will just shut down my PC and say to them "Gid Gud boi!"

 

[Lulu]

Button mash waat? That cant be true....
Although sometimes I have some problem with them too, they cant go anywhere from there...
Somtimes they are so unpredictable, but yeah! they are just garbage...
Sometimes I will just shut down my PC and say to them "Gid Gud boi!"

LoL... they don't need to win a tournament.... they just need enough to beat the occasional Rookie online.... Button Mashing helps accomplish that.

 

[Kensei_warlord]

I ve been playing DOA5 for a year now...
Last week a "just wanna try" boi start play this game..
We only had 1 match, and he just mash his way to victory...
Can you believe that???

 

[Lulu]

I ve been playing DOA5 for a year now...
Last week a "just wanna try" boi start play this game..
We only had 1 match, and he just mash his way to victory...
Can you believe that???

LoL.... Depends.... How often do you play button mashers ?

If it was your first time... then yes. It happens.

 

[Kensei_warlord]

Online rookie? Seriously? Come on man...
My personal experience on this 6y.o. old game is everybody left in here are streamers, hardcore fans, developers, or just staffs...

 

[Lulu]

Online rookie? Seriously? Come on man...

Yep.... you can't approach Button Mashers the same way you would approach a genuinely good player. You need to develope whole different plan exclusively just to beat Button Mashers....

 

[illninofan]

I don't think thats going to help... trying to formulate a plan around something random is impractical. Sure your friends will whip out an unsafe move every now and then but they may do it at differen't ranges making it harder to punish.... especially for players who are in the learning phase such as you and me .

I think the most effective solution is to Find Something Cheap and Dirty and Abuse the living hell out of it....

When they get frustrated and say the game is Broken... simply tell them how to counter that cheap setup.....

If you can get them to consiously play with Intentionality then I think thats the first step to squashing out Random Moves.


In my Example with R. Mika all my friend had to do is ask how to avoid getting Grabbed by Mika's Brimstone. I'd have no problem telling them it can be avoided by jumping straight up and punishing the Recovery. Because I want them to jump with a purpose.... not to do it Randomly and catch me by surprise.

I feel like this is also why Cammy's Cannon Strike should be performed using instead of .

Perhaps I'm alone in this but I'm tired of neither playing not knowing whos at advantage after a cannon strike.

You've got a point here, simplifying the game helps when playing a masher.

I'll relate it back to DOA (since I haven't played SF in a while)...one of my roomies would spam a high combo with Kasumi (I don't remember the exact input, but just from sight, I could tell he was only throwing high punches).

Reflexively, I leaned on to counter since it's one of the easier moves to pull off and one of the first that I got down. Turned the tide of the fight, cornered him and won (we were at Temple).

In short, yes, spamming something cheap and easy is effective because it simplifies things and gets you surveying the situation and responding accordingly (also keeps you from overthinking and the paralysis that follows).

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to mention that I used Honoka (my main). XD

 

[Lulu]

LoL.... Thats the Spirit.

Bongoleena might Come Over today.... I've been brushing up on my SFV and KI... lets put my theory to the test.

Actually.... unlike Adam... Bongoleena is a significantly better Tactician... I don't expect to Cheese him out as easily. Which is good... I need a Sparring Partner.

 

[Lulu]

So quick Update....

Bongoleena Came over.... lol I was actually watching Capcom Cup 2016 when he arrived so bringing up SFV in conversation was easy.

So we fired it up... I said lets go to Training Mode and he was like "nah I'm good... lets do this"

LoL... then he kept pestering me with questions on how to play the entire time !!! And I kept insisting we go to training mode and he kept refusing....

Fine by me.... I beat him 3-0 before he finally quit.

To be fair... he was more frustrated at the lack of proper Keyboard Support than with the can of whoop ass I was unleashing.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

enough to consider myself Semi-Competent.
But My button fashing friends Beat my ass