Community Discussion for Tournament Rules

[BlackxxxMamba]

I WOULD LIKE TO KEEP THIS DISCUSSION BETWEEN PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY GO TO TOURNAMENTS PLEASE.

So myself and others feel that The Ends of the Earth stage (The Ice Level) should be banned in tournament play. It's water EVERYWHERE and gives off that famous DOA water stun. I feel this stage is not appropriate for tournaments and just adds more random to the game... more than we already have... Some of us are looking into banning this level starting 2013.

At least in Sanctuary (The Temple Level) you can work your way out of the water, but the problem is that sometimes, at the beginning of the new round, it spawns both players BACK IN the water.

I also feel that DOA5 tournaments should be 2 out of 3 matches instead of 3 out of 5 matches. The life settings are too high in this game to be played 3 out of 5. So the tournament format would look like :

2/3 matches
3/5 matches for Winners Finals, Losers Finals, and Grand Finals.

In conclusion, The Ends of the Earth should be banned in all tournaments and should be 2/3 match format for the whole tournament until Winners, Losers, and Grand Finals where they will be 3/5 matches.

Please use the poll and let us know what y'all think.

 

[Tenren]

i agree with both the stage and 2/3 matches. 3/5 takes way to long. I hate Ends of the earth stage. Just playing the stage hurts my eye and its even worse on stream. I took it off my random a while back. Alpha blue players can even be a pain some time on the stage lol.

 

[TakedaZX]

Yeaaa... after playing casuals and actually competing in this tournament, you can say that Ends of the Earth (while a beautiful and well thought out stage) completely changes the game. i.e. Hayate's best lows are 2H+K and 1P. These do not stun on natural hit, but are beautiful counter hit stuns for high crushing. Give him water and it becomes a deadly weapon to put the opponent to the ground. At that point it's no longer if you know the Hayate match up well enough because now you have to add into the picture the fact that now Hayate holds good lows that will net him the stun game whether you're being interrupted or not.

That breaks your muscle memory... because if you let Hayate 1p you on the reg because it's -4/-6 on hit, then take that advantage given to you and throw it in his face... well... then you're kinda screwed. Sure it could be just one round but even still it kinda sucks, and it's not just Hayate, he's just the character I have the best experience with, it applies to all characters with not so great lows.

If the lows are going to be bad on NH let them be, the temple and jungle place are fine imo, but a stage where there's no escaping it? I'll pass.

As for rounds. Honestly... I love 3/5. The more DOA I can play/see the better... but I understand how it can drag on a bit. I'll say 2/3 is reasonable for now. Perhaps 2/3 for pools, 3/5 for top 8 or top 4 or Grand Finals... and I mean... that 4/7 was hype at DID8, but Idk... it's pretty challenging to answer because I've been to one tournament and a few offline gatherings, but I've seen a lot.

 

[TRI Mike]

Just use the snow for your advantage¿

I honestly don't see why we shouldn't play in smallest but ban a specific stage.

 

[CyberEvil]

Ends of the Earth needs to be banned and I'm fully on board with that. If you didn't have to do any work to maneuver your opponent into an advantageous position for you (like water), you shouldn't have access to it all the time. Not all of the cast can take advantage of water hazards equally and some it actually ruins less risky CB setups (Brad Wong is an example). There is also the little issue where some of the 'walls' near the cliffs on the stage not only don't function as walls but actually let the opponent simply fall through the damn world. We had a glitchy and random stage in DoA4 that we banned. It should happen here, too.

Sanctuary is a problem because of the position reset, but honestly that happens on Scramble and Warzone too with one player getting set with their back to a cliffhanger or danger zone respectively. Home has a similar, if much more rare, issue where player one can smack the other fighter through the wall without breaking it, effectively ending a round immediately unless the other player not only knows where to walk out of the stage but then charges back in directly at their waiting opponent.

I honestly prefer 3 out of 5 all the way through, though. More and more damaging setups and combos are being discovered daily and I don't believe that the life settings are high enough that matches will continue to be long. They'll only get shorter as more tech is discovered. This also gives some of the players that aren't necessarily there to take top three a chance to get actual tournament experience in for a longer period of time. We're still building things up so I don't see the harm in requiring an extra win to advance. Being down two matches and fighting back to advance is just as exhilarating for the winner (and audience) as it is shitty for the person who would have won in a two out of three setting.

All that said, I would be totally on board with 2/3 IF we started consistently pulling 50+ for tournaments. The argument for matches dragging is valid, but until we consistently have the numbers to require us to speed things up to get through the brackets, I don't see the problem with letting everyone get an extra match or two in. I do see where you're coming from but that's my personal reasoning on it.

Great fucking thread, by the way. This is the kind of discussion I'd like to see more of. So thanks for that, Mamba. Moving to DoA5 General due to higher traffic there as well as relevance. I'll leave a redirect here though.

 

[XDest]

It needs to be banned. Water should be a positional hazard, not a constant. A puddle is fine. A beach+ocean is fine. Because in those circumstances you can move around to either take advantage of or avoid the water. When it's the entire stage is becomes the normal game, not something that alters it based on where you are on the stage.

It really affects gameplay in a negative way (almost all 1Ps become stuns on NH).

2/3 sounds like a good idea, all the other fighting games I play use that. It feels like matches drag on forever right now.

 

[DR2K]

I think it should be allowed, but both players should agree to the stage if it's randomly chosen. Some characters/players work better in the water/ice hazard.

I say 3/5 works better when the turnout is smaller, but if it gets bigger consider 2/3.

 

[TakedaZX]

Just use the snow for your advantage¿

I honestly don't see why we shouldn't play in smallest but ban a specific stage.

It's like CyberEvil said. Some characters benefit better from it than others, but if the game is built that way than it really shouldn't be available 24/7 in a match. The characters were made a certain way to be played that certain way. To count on a change in the properties of a low or such moves is ridiculous.

Take Eliot for example. His raw 2H+K stuns for pretty good advantage on NH, only guaranteeing the follow up to launch (but can be held). As for the other variations of it (3pk and 6k2k). The low kick doesn't stun on natural hit / out of stun there fore you must free cancel it or hope that they don't expect the launcher to come out and use it. On Ends of the earth, that is neglected because no matter what hit it is, you will have to take that stun, making you HAVE to respect the low at all times. I mean it adds variety and forces you to adapt... but Idk...

I don't think it's necessary to use a stage with water status no matter where you go. Save that for sanctuary and the jungle, as well as dlc stages to come.

 

[synce]

Why should it be banned, there's no element of randomness. Just because certain characters have great ways to abuse doesn't mean it should be banned. Might as well ban really tiny or really large stages

DOA5 should definitely be 2/3 though.

 

[Chris Harris]

That stage is beyond annoying to fight on. The game has nothing but super fast lows and most aren't good until we're on that stage. So now we're all spamming lows to start a mix up? That stage needs to go asap lmao

 

[CyberEvil]

Why should it be banned, there's no element of randomness. Just because certain characters have great ways to abuse doesn't mean it should be banned. Might as well ban really tiny or really large stages

DOA5 should definitely be 2/3 though.

Read my post. Walls sometimes acting as teleporters that drop you onto the ground in a different part of the level and deal damage definitely count as random in my book.

 

[Berzerk!]

I'm undecided on Ends of the Earth. It's annoying, but consistent. Its not like the Dinosaur stage in DOA4 which could totally sideswipe you from off screen.

As for match counts, as long as Normal life is how it is, sadly 2/3 is better to just get tournaments done on time.
I prefer 3/5 as a format though. I wish the life setting was lower and this wouldn't be a dillemma.

At this time I'd favour 2/3 unless clearly a small tournament, and 3/5 for top 4 regardless.

 

[Allan Paris]

I am with banning the stage. My reason for wanting it banned is that when you're hit on counter hit or put in a stun that puts you into the slipping animation. That is an unholdable stun and characters can get guaranteed launchers from it. Funnier thing about that is; low wake up kicks give that stun every single time. The wake up game is already dumb as it is but on the Ends of the Earth it is godlike.

As far as matches go I like the idea of seeing how the offline scene goes, if we remain small (3/5) or grow big (2/3). I am with 2/3 or 3/5 it doesn't matter to me what the matches are, honestly. As long as it's one or the other.

 

[BlackxxxMamba]

Don't forget to vote guys. There is a poll.

 

[Matt Ponton]

For the record, I was already considering this and have had numerous people bring at the very least the 3/5 set issue to my attention. That includes other tournament organizers who don't participate in this community. Mamba brought his concerns to me and I told him to make a thread on FSD about it when he had the chance.

Yes, I prefer the 3/5 method, but that idea was based off the 240 point health system. I think the sets go on too long for 3/5 and 300 life. 2/3 is more consistent with the other fighting games (sans Marvel but one round = one match in that game) as well.

Lastly, IPL I believe will be using the 2/3 format (3/5 on finals).

 

[Katsu Hayami]

I've been to many majors playing various games but NEC13 was my first DOA major so I can't really say much, but I know for a fact that the Ends of the Earth stage should be banned. From what I've seen online and through casuals that stage is glitchy lol. I also noticed that it gives certain characters a huge advantage that can't be avoided like sanctuary. Sanctuary is fine because things like water should be an environmental effect and not continuous.

As for rounds go I believe 3/5 should be fine. It gives people chances, know the meta game, and learn adapt to the opponent. Knowing the game and adapting to the situation really determines whose the better player in my opinion instead of just gimmicks and random things that happen.

I also prefer 3/5 matches over 2/3 for now till the DOA tournaments goes at least 100+ entries lol. People may say 3/5 takes to long but with the small community I've seen and how others look down on it like delaying our top 4 because of stupid reasons I won't say, we have all the time in the world. Also having more screen time at an event really helps show what DOA is made of.

 

[Rikuto]

3/5, ends of the earth banned.

 

[Dr Sexual]

3/5 EoE banned

The stage is great for Water/Ice TRAINING but there should never be a tournament match where this mechanic is 100% guaranteed regardless of positioning/spacing.

While not as drastic as this example its almost like having a stage where you have a permanent wall that floats behind your back and no matter how you position yourself if you get hit you go into the wall.

 

[IceMage95]

Ends of the Earth is just plain annoying as what was previously stated about the water stun. I've had people purposely chose that stage online and just put me in an unholdable stun that continues to loop. Basically whoever can stun their opponent and keep that stun going will be the victor in that case. I would rather like 2/3 because of the extended life bar in DOA5 versus previous DOA games. It would just take too long to complete an entire tournament in just a few hours with 3/5 matches. I wouldn't mind if the top 8 or something used 3/5 and grand finals used 4/7 though.

EDIT: Blue Alphas always drive me crazy on that stage too because I can barely see them.

 

[Dr Sexual]

My reasoning for 3/5 is two things.

Good yomi is a required skill to excel in this game in my opinion and 3/5 allows you to better work this in. At 2/3 its much easier to potentially play off of a "script" if its working without letting your opponent have enough time to adjust their game. 3/5 allows so much more time to mold your yomi game in match and really get into the mental chess game of DOA.

The second thing is that the longer the sets go the less chance there is of the randomness of DOA swaying the outcome of a match.

With all that said if the community at this point is really just going for flash and quickness of sets for more exposure (which really is fine if it brings in more players) I think 2/3 works too.