DLC Costumes

[Brute]

Um no. Buying the dlc does in fact support the game. Why do you think this game got supported this long with more characters, stages, tournament money, etc? It sure wasn't the game software sales which was worse then previous games. I'm not defending that the shit isn't overpriced/bad quality/whatever, but overpriced or not the money does not disappear in thin air. It goes to the upper management pockets and that money revenue is justification of them giving the go ahead for TN to keep supporting the game.

It got "supported" with minimal-effort copy-paste characters and stages. The actual gameplay arguably got worse with every iteration.
As you alluded to, KT knows that pure gameplay is not making them much money. Selling lazy DLC is. So they pay little focus to refining the actual game and instead prioritize stringing their customers along with the DLC and 4th-over re-releases. You are right in that the DLC money probably goes right into the pockets of the upper-management, and they probably think: "Wow, cool! Let's force TN to keep making sexy-DLC (despite a clear effort in NG3 and DOA5 Vanilla not to focus purely on that) so we can get more of this stuff!"

You can make a pitch for the pot-bonuses at live events, but if we're being honest, most of the same people would show up to said events if they contributed the pot-money bonuses or not, valuing the sense of community and social element of the event more than their own minuscule chance of winning and making money rather than losing it (especially considering most people aren't aware of the pot-bonus until after they've already made travel plans and often times registered). Regarding players who don't go to events primarily for DOA, the potential people brought in from the pot-bonuses probably doesn't outweigh the potential players lost from stigma reinforced by the DLC practice itself. Whether that stigma is valid or not is irrelevant. Taking a look at FGC players' opinions of DOA who are not fans of the game show that some of them are indeed put off by the DLC practices.

No, Brute what makes people salty all the time is that the same people keep griping about the same thing over, and over and over and over and over again, I see the same complaints from the same people even though they know how things are working. The complaining isn't doing anything productive for the community. And it tends to be several individuals that feel like they need to keep doing so even though people have already heard the spiel many times over.

DLC supporters are just as redundant as their perceived adversaries, and in this case it was actually a DLC-supporter (you) who decided to audaciously incite the topic when faced with frivolous sarcasm (cabbage). Ironically, the DLC-supporters here seem to be the only salty ones (something you actually address as the opening of your own post). The points you addressed are irrelevant at best and hypocritical at worst.

Buying DLC is supporting the DLC. No one is telling you that you shouldn't buy the DLC (or be happy others are buying it, for that matter); I'm merely saying that buying DLC isn't necessarily going to result in a better game or community (ie: "supporting the game"). Now, if everyone is as tired of this debate as they claim to be, feel free to leave it there.

And, to be perfectly clear, I do not support piracy. Actively supporting piracy is against FSD policy, but Cabbage was alluding to a potential explanation for the apparent lack of attention given to the PC version, not explicitly supporting/condoning the act of it.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

It got "supported" with minimal-effort copy-paste characters and stages. The actual gameplay arguably got worse with every iteration.

Okay, this is news to me, explain how it got worse? It seems virtually the same with the only issue is that TN doesn't do character patches that really changes characters all that much.

You can make a pitch for the pot-bonuses at live events, but if we're being honest, most of the same people would show up to said events if they contributed the pot-money bonuses or not, valuing the sense of community and social element of the event more than their own minuscule chance of winning and making money rather than losing it (especially considering most people aren't aware of the pot-bonus until after they've already made travel plans and often times registered). Regarding players who don't go to events primarily for DOA, the potential people brought in from the pot-bonuses probably doesn't outweigh the potential players lost from stigma reinforced by the DLC practice itself. Whether that stigma is valid or not is irrelevant. Taking a look at FGC players' opinions of DOA who are not fans of the game show that some of them are indeed put off by the DLC practices.

And if fanservice honestly put them away from a game, that's on them and not on the game itself. You can pretend different but let's face facts:
Americans players of the FGC pretend Arcana Heart is a terrible game and stay away from it because it's basically all females and languishes in Anime stereotypes...
Japanese players of the FGC don't give a shit and there is still tournies for the game in Japan to this day.

And let's look on the other side of the fence:
Virtua Fighter, one of the most balanced, if not THE most balanced, fighting game on the market...
BARELY played enough to even believe there is a community in America, basically treated with FAR more respect elsewhere.

Brute you got it backwards: Fighting games in the States is literally on pure crutches and hypocrisy. We ACKNOWLEDGE Virtua Fighter is the best fighter in terms of balance...but no one even tries to support it. 3D fighting games is usually seen as nothing but wastes of space to the "main event" of 2D fighting games and on top of that you need to be the "right" type of fighting game or people won't take it seriously enough...
The United States FGC is literally a conundrum in and of itself that basically destroys any chance of thriving fighting games despite wanting more thriving fighting games AND to be taken more seriously despite excluding anything not being "serious".

I understand your overall point here but trust me from looking at multiple places and not...The FGC as a whole is virtually the LAST place that we should pretend has any real meaning when Smash has a far huger and dedicated base...and they STILL lambast the Smash Community to this day for not being a "true" fighter.

 

[The Enforcer]

Brute, you're as salty as they get too. If you're tired of the debate as well, are you able to leave it as well without getting the last word in?

 

[Brute]

Okay, this is news to me, explain how it got worse? It seems virtually the same with the only issue is that TN doesn't do character patches that really changes characters all that much.

Buggier. Worse gameplay balance and functions.

And if fanservice honestly put them away from a game, that's on them and not on the game itself.

Whether that stigma is valid or not is irrelevant.

And let's look on the other side of the fence:
Virtua Fighter, one of the most balanced, if not THE most balanced, fighting game on the market...
BARELY played enough to even believe there is a community in America, basically treated with FAR more respect elsewhere. Brute you got it backwards: Fighting games in the States is literally on pure crutches and hypocrisy. We ACKNOWLEDGE Virtua Fighter is the best fighter in terms of balance...but no one even tries to support it. 3D fighting games is usually seen as nothing but wastes of space to the "main event" of 2D fighting games and on top of that you need to be the "right" type of fighting game or people won't take it seriously enough...
The United States FGC is literally a conundrum in and of itself that basically destroys any chance of thriving fighting games despite wanting more thriving fighting games AND to be taken more seriously despite excluding anything not being "serious".

I understand your overall point here but trust me from looking at multiple places and not...The FGC as a whole is virtually the LAST place that we should pretend has any real meaning when Smash has a far huger and dedicated base...and they STILL lambast the Smash Community to this day for not being a "true" fighter.

That's all wonderful and completely irrelevant. No one is debating who is in the "right" or "wrong" to support or not support the game in a general sense. The topic is this: "Does buying TN's DLC support the game or its community?" and the answer is: "Not really," unless you're looking exclusively at the crowd who just buys and discusses the DLC costumes and that is their sole interest (but the effects of that don't bleed over and thus is a different topic altogether).

Brute, you're as salty as they get too. If you're tired of the debate as well, are you able to leave it as well without getting the last word in?

Your ad hominem would be more amusing if it was rooted in something vaguely close to reality. Note that I never said I was tired of the "debate," which would be the second instance of misplaced conjecture you packed into two sentences.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Buggier. Worse gameplay balance and functions.

Can I actually get some examples or a video of the differences between DOA5 Vanilla and Last Round? I'm not trying to doubt you but this is seriously news to me.

That's all wonderful and completely irrelevant. No one is debating who is in the "right" or "wrong" to support or not support the game in a general sense. The topic is this: "Does buying TN's DLC support the game or its community?" and the answer is: "Not really," unless you're looking exclusively at the crowd who just buys and discusses the DLC costumes and that is their sole interest (but the effects of that don't bleed over and thus is a different topic altogether).

But you just went with that spiel above about how people wasn't going to take the game serious over said DLC options(even though there are worse examples than cosmetic costumes you don't need to buy...) or was that not your intent at all?

 

[Brute]

Can I actually get some examples or a video of the differences between DOA5 Vanilla and Last Round? I'm not trying to doubt you but this is seriously news to me.

The ground game changed. Power launchers were added. Danger Zone stage was added. Gen-Fu's thing happened. I'm not going to explain the history of the entire game in a DLC thread.

As for bugs, just do a quick search for DOA5LR glitches. Lots of fun stuff, even when not considering the PC version.

But you just went with that spiel above about how people wasn't going to take the game serious over said DLC options(even though there are worse examples than cosmetic costumes you don't need to buy...) or was that not your intent at all?

The point is that they feel that way, not whether they should feel that way. I was assessing the actual utility of the DLC and its observable benefits/repercussions, not whether the observable benefits/repercussions should be the way they are. You were comparing it to other cases with entirely different variables.

 

[Number 13]

LR objectively is a better game product since the release of vanilla. It also slowly became available on more platforms over the years most recently PC ironically where people are now free to pirate while insulting the game. That is a result largely thanks to the dlc like it or not. I can make a list of all the improvements since vanilla [that isn't free on the devs end], but it would be redundant.

Fact of the matter is if these mass produce of dlc exist because legions of people are willing to throw hundreds regularly for their favorite character I'm fine with it because

A. Doesn't effect me or others directly since that is their own money and TN is just giving them what they want.
B. It will result to support that isn't just cosmetic nonsense where myself and many others have appreciated in the past

Looking back LR is a big step up compared to vanilla. It would have been a shame if DoA 5 vanilla just ended at that when it had potential for more. LR is not flawless, but let's not pretend vanilla didn't have its own issues too that were at least partially solved in either +, Ultimate, and LR.

Anyway this is getting OT so ending my input on this discussion since at this point people are just gonna go around in circles.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

The ground game changed. Power launchers were added. Danger Zone stage was added. Gen-Fu's thing happened. I'm not going to explain the history of the entire game in a DLC thread.

As for bugs, just do a quick search for DOA5LR glitches. Lots of fun stuff, even when not considering the PC version.

I agree easily with Danger Zone, Power Launchers don't seem that buggy at all past being difficult to perform easily, Gen-Fu and Christie barely being touched seems to be a TN issue of not seeing them as broken and the Ground game seems okay to me but whatever, I'll let this die since as you stated, this is the wrong thread for that.

The point is that they feel that way, not whether they should feel that way. I was assessing the actual utility of the DLC and its observable benefits/repercussions, not whether the observable benefits/repercussions should be the way they are. You were comparing it to other cases with entirely different variables.

And I can see that to a certain extent but again, DLC practices in general are more frowned upon then rather HOW it's used(as again, people have complained about DLC even when DLC is cosmetic and won't benefit you in any way). People are right to frown on DOA5's Season Passes, but again forget that it's mainly for those who like costumes(which gets hilarious when people don't act as offended when anything by WB or Activision does it, enforcing said double standards).
I get your point further but all it does is reinforce what I stated earlier: People are a bunch of hypocrites at times.

 

[lotr9690]

LR objectively is a better game product since the release of vanilla.

I'm sure you have your reasons for saying this, but I disagree. In lieu of LR (and ultimate) I would have liked a DOA6 like...next year. The 5 series feels like a long episodic DLC bout. I understand why they did it this way but because of this model I won't be purchasing DOA6 right off the bat because of my experience with 5U and 5LR. I know many others who feel this way, and others who have lost interest entirely. Re-releases are a bad idea for consumers. I will not be supporting upcoming launch titles because of this.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

I'm sure you have your reasons for saying this, but I disagree. In lieu of LR (and ultimate) I would have liked a DOA6 like...next year. The 5 series feels like a long episodic DLC bout. I understand why they did it this way but because of this model I won't be purchasing DOA6 right off the bat because of my experience with 5U and 5LR. I know many others who feel this way, and others who have lost interest entirely. Re-releases are a bad idea for consumers. I will not be supporting upcoming launch titles because of this.

Congrats as we are in the fighting game(or Arc System Works syndrome) style lol.

 

[lotr9690]

Congrats as we are in the fighting game(or Arc System Works syndrome) style lol.

Yeah I get that. But that's not a compelling explanation for TN's behavior. Atlus, Bamco etc. have also done similar things and they won't be getting my money either. Power to the consumer, seller beware.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Yeah I get that. But that's not a compelling explanation for TN's behavior. Atlus, Bamco etc. have also done similar things and they won't be getting my money either. Power to the consumer, seller beware.

I wasn't trying to say that you didn't have a point, hell, I kinda agreed with your point there:
Capcom has done it with SF4 being released like 3 times within a year or 2 every time.
MKX will obviously have a GOTY edition

It's pretty much something you will have to grit your teeth and bare it or just wait for a year or two(HOPEFULLY Marvel vs. Capcom 3...) and see what happens.

 

[Argentus]

Almost October.... when did they start teasing the Halloween dlc last time again?

 

[coopermon]

I wonder if the dlc is as comparatively overpriced in japan as it is in the west and if this is a case of tn not understanding the English market.

 

[SoftCabbage]

Let me just drop a "LOL" as I witness the prove why gaming industry is now covered with filthy mud thanks to some of its fans.

Way to 'support', guys. Topkek.

I wonder if the dlc is as comparatively overpriced in japan as it is in the west and if this is a case of tn not understanding the English market.

It's the same - more or less.

Almost October.... when did they start teasing the Halloween dlc last time again?

Going to be mid October, as usual. Pretty sure of that.

 

[Chapstick]

Almost October.... when did they start teasing the Halloween dlc last time again?

I checked the old halloween dlc thread and it started october 5th last year

 

[Project Bokuho]

Almost October.... when did they start teasing the Halloween dlc last time again?

To be honest, they do a bad job at making image teasers. I mean, they make it obvious as to who gets what on Twitter for crying out loud lol

 

[David Gregg]

I think the DLC debate will never resolve but it's obvious TN isn't slowing down in that department any time soon. I can turn the other way when I see those absurd prices as long as gameplay is intact. I've been pretty disappointed with 3 of the 5 DLC fighters though. I let it slide with Phase 4. Raidou was kept just as bland and unoriginal as his DOA Dimensions self but again just looked the other way. Then with Honoka it became obvious that they're making new fighters for the sake of creating additional DLC sales for outfits and not to enhance gameplay. That's the most frustrating aspect to me. A new DOA fighter used to mean something in the past as compared to Tekken where half the roster used to be clones.

 

[RetroMe91]

I am going to throw my opinion about the dlc fighters out there. Honestly, Marie Rose is amazing. She has unique fighting style and she is fun to use. Nyotengu was a smart move because only a small handful of fans would have purchased Tengu while Nyotengu is very well liked and is even more fun to play than Tengu was. While Honoka may seem lazy, every fighting game has a Honoka, but in my opinion, Honoka has the best execution out of all of the characters that play like her, and I am including Khameleon from MK in that category. Honoka has easily become one of my top favorites to use. I was originally disappointed about getting another Kasumi clone, but after playing as Phase-4, I would much rather have Phase-4 over Kasumi in every game. The major disappointment was Raidou. He is boring. You can tell they spent less time working on him than the did these new female fighters. He is bland.

So with the dlc fighters, I do think they tried. They may not be the most original fighters, but their execution is great. The only one who really isn't great is Raidou.

 

[Kodachi]

i dont think raidou is that bland.. hes one of the more interesting males to play as in my opinion. His fireball is fun to troll people with and his ninja dlc costume is pretty cool. Im hoping the next character is a male just as polished as the females though.