DOA4's top 25 (When it mattered)

[Relius Starkiller]

I've been mulling this over in my head for years - the question as to why no one ever made an honest effort to assign a rank to the better players in this community.

There were enough of us and hindsight being what it is I think we can be a lot more candid on our personal takes on the skill of other players. I think back then everyone had a dog in the race but now that DOA 4 has died down quite a bit, I think something like this can be done without too many people getting butt hurt.

The list would have to be produced by a committee comprised of those who were around at the time, who were decent players themselves, competed against those in consideration and have a history of unbiased opinion when it came to any of the players who would make it into the discussion (That last part is a little tricky because I think at some point everyone was on everyones badside but we're adults here right? Sorta, kinda?).

I'm wondering would anyone be on board with helping me with an opinion piece of this type?

Don't all jump up at once.

 

[Allan Paris]

Why does this matter, what does this prove, how does this help anything current today with the series? Will this help us have a better game, what will this list accomplish, and most importantly, why should anyone care about this?

People's game speak for themselves, recognition, respect, who's the best, how good you are comes from your performance. You don't need a collective to state this. Players can and have done this for themselves already.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

Because it might be a good read and promote discussion as to what made a good DOA4 player.

Because rankings are something that people are always interested in.

Because wouldn't you like to know what your peers thought of you.

Because not everyone got to be on the CGS or WCG, not everyone got to win a tournament, not everyone is remembered to have been an elite player and maybe, just maybe, they want a little bit of public recognition of their accomplishments.

And, finally, because not everything has to be pushing the community forward. How does UncleKitchener running a petition to get Bass into the White House help anybody other than to bring some levity to their day?

I think it would be good for the site too because god knows that front page needs more content (And I'm speaking across all three major DOA sites by the way.)

 

[Allan Paris]

Because it might be a good read and promote discussion as to what made a good DOA4 player.

Because rankings are something that people are always interested in.

Because wouldn't you like to know what your peers thought of you.

And, finally, because not everything has to be pushing the community forward. How does UncleKitchener running a petition to get Bass into the White House help anybody other than to bring some levity to their day?

I think it would be good for the site too because god knows that front page needs more content (And I'm speaking across all three major DOA sites by the way.)

Great guessing or, reading skills is what made a good/great/top DOA4 player. Nothing more to it.

I agree with you that people want to know rankings. Still, this won't breathe any life in the series at all, DOA4 rankings that is.

Honestly, I don't care what anyone thinks of me. As long as I win when it matters, I am content with that.

Because not everyone got to be on the CGS or WCG, not everyone got to win a tournament, not everyone is remembered to have been an elite player and maybe, just maybe, they want a little bit of public recognition of their accomplishments.

If you were elite back then, people still remember you or at least your name will ring bells if you are mentioned in a DOA crowd. As far as I know most dudes really didn't get all the recognition they deserve, publicly. So this assumption may seem to be a little patronizing to them. Seeing as their recognition will only go as far as this thread. At this point in time it's best to keep things moving and focus on DOA5.

You're right, not everything has to push us forward. However, going back in the DOA4 era in this particular light, eh, I say leave it alone. UK's contest deals with art and it's art for a character that really hasn't gotten any love in a long time. His thread sheds some light on an unfavored character, promoting him with fan service.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

None of what you're saying justifies why we shouldn't take a final look back.

This is the tail end of the DOA4 life cycle, I think it would only be the altruistic thing for to those who put in the time and effort to be rewarded.

You haven't given me a single reason as to why this is a bad idea other than "We need to focus on the future". If were all about the future lets get rid of those DOA4, 3, 2, and 1 boards because they aren't our future.

Not very long ago a new tier list for DOA2U was posted, why is this any different?

 

[Allan Paris]

Well I answered the hypothetical questions you presented to me, in your second post. I can be a little more direct in my answers, though.

A final look back on DOA4 rankings means nothing because; I can bet my bottom dollar the majority here could really careless to sit and think hard on the top 25 DOA4 players. Were there even 25 consistent players to even be consider the "top 25", that question is rhetorical. I know there aren't because the same 4 maybe 5 guys kept winning all the tournaments for the game. This here is another reason,

If you were elite back then, people still remember you or at least your name will ring bells if you are mentioned in a DOA crowd. As far as I know most dudes really didn't get all the recognition they deserve, publicly. So this assumption may seem to be a little patronizing to them. Seeing as their recognition will only go as far as this thread.

You are taking my statement on keeping things moving forward, too literal. I am talking about this particular topic. You know what, when I honestly sit and think about it, I don't care and I mean that with no disrespect or even giving up on the matter. I truly do not care.

Do what you do.

 

[Raansu]

It's called tournaments, thats all that matters.

 

[grap3fruitman]

have a history of unbiased opinion

You just disqualified yourself.

It's called tournaments, thats all that matters.

Basically. Isn't that the point of a tournament? To see who's the best of the best and then rank them accordingly?

What more unbiased way of determining who's a better player than by having them play each other?

It seems like the best way to go about this would be to compile tournament results then, wouldn't it?

 

[Relius Starkiller]

You just disqualified yourself.

I hate everyone equally, plus I don't think I'd make the top 25 if we're being completely honest so its got nothing to do with being able to get my own name out there.

You hate DOA Master and no one else so you'd be DQ'd yourself.

It's called tournaments, thats all that matters.

Yeah, maybe for the top 3 or 4 but ultimately there were players below them who were able to place, or who ended up with unfavorable seeding more often than not but where still able to prove them selves as exceptional, knowledgeable players (be it during practice sessions, casual play or, most importantly, money matches.).

Take SweetRevenge for example - How many tournaments did that guy actually end up winning? 1, maybe 2 but wasn't he good enough, at any given time, to take your money after the fact?

How about online players like Angry Worm, Don't Fork With Me, Neo Mp, Slayer DNA and so on - we can sit here all day and low rate online players but one of the main opponents of this idea is a guy whos skill was cultivated there (Allen Paris). Is the game different offline. . .sure and that caveat is why maybe a guy like Lopedo wouldn't break into the top 10 but no one is going to dispute that hes one of the top 25.

Tournament results really aren't all that matters because if it were Vanessa and Shin Ryujin might be considered top 10 but I don't think very many people would consider either such - you have to look at what they won, when and who they were actually playing against.

Skill, as acknowledged by your peers, thats what the list is about.

 

[grap3fruitman]

You hate DOA Master and no one else so you'd be DQ'd yourself.

Because I was volunteering for this, right?

Skill, as acknowledged by your peers, thats what the list is about.

"Yo! My friends say I'm the best at this game. Nobody can beat me!"

How do you measure that other than tournament results? This list is pretty pointless. Even more so considering that this is about DOA4, which didn't matter and was a terrible game.

 

[Raansu]

No one cares about a "top 25." You either win a tournament or you don't. People will get recognized for skill no matter what, but in the end the only thing that truly matters are tournaments. Anything else is just practice/casual.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

How do you measure that other than tournament results?

The same way they measure accomplishments in any sport - through all inclusive data AND opinion. Titles are all well and good but win/lose records, ability and marquee victories inside or outside the tournament all help to form the list but at the top of the heap, yeah, tournament victories play a large part in placing.

Its like those boxing and MMA pound for pound lists - Anderson Silva has 4 loses to his name and George St. Pierre only has 2, they both have the same number of title defenses and wins inside the UFC. Its obvious that GSP is the P4P best right now right?

Not exactly, you have to look at who they beat (Quality of tournament), how they beat them (Were you struggling to beat :"The Ripgut"?) , how they lost (Who took you out, is there a pattern, a certain play style that you have trouble with?), what skills were showcased in route.

And what about those matches that took place during the CGS? Those weren't tournaments, do those not count? What about the on stage challenge matches? Master won CGI, is that as impressive as Dave Chappelle winning the Combine tournament in 07 (Not by a long shot).

What about the Pan Am tournaments from WCG? What about Cevo and that 6 man EGL that PL won? It can't all be tournament victories.

 

[Matt Ponton]

If I ever get a working Tournamento modification to the site that would give a decent automatic ladder. However that would be only for moving forward.

I might have to learn to code it myself as Jaxel's project for it has been postponed indefinitely due to him working on XSplit and XenForo mods.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

If I ever get a working Tournamento modification to the site that would give a decent automatic ladder. However that would be only for moving forward.

I might have to learn to code it myself as Jaxel's project for it has been postponed indefinitely due to him working on XSplit and XenForo mods.

I've always romanticized about a system similar to the one thats utilized over at Sherdog.com

http://www.sherdog.com/events

Just a way to search for specific players and get their tournament history. You couldn't track win's and loses persey but tournament wins, notable accomplishments and money matches are things that could be officially tracked easily enough (The last part would require some type of regulatory infrastructure to prevent fraud.)

I'd do it myself but A) I'm lazy and B) ZzzzzZzzzzZzzzZzzzz

But, I'm wonder how do you feel about a list like this Mr. Wah?

 

[Matt Ponton]

I personally don't think it serves any benefit at this time or going forward.

In addition, trying to validate users who specifically play online ends up taking away the draw of an offline event.

I would rather effort be done towards the creation of the ladder system going forward, instead of focusing on the past for a game that will technically be obsolete in half a year.

 

[Awesmic]

So... top 4 is Perfect Legend, Black Mamba, Offbeat Ninja, and Master, and 5-25 is Everyone Else.

Yes, let's move on.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

In addition, trying to validate users who specifically play online ends up taking away the draw of an offline event.
.

But would you not agree that many of the offline players began as online players?

When it came to offline events - I think the major mistakes that were made during the previous era delt
with how online players were treated. Instead of trying to lump these players into a slum caste we should
give them reasons to attend offline events.

Rankings help in that, if I know I'll never be able to break into the top 20 because I play exclusively online
it may convince me to take my talents to a DID or Devastation. Granted, everyone has different motivations
and being considered one of the best in the world isn't on every players mind but for some it is.

"Wow, I just beat Ransuu! FSD ranks him as the 83rd best player in the world! I'm hot shit!"

One idea I always liked (And I believed this was a concept put out by CGS) was the idea of advanced seeding based on tournaments A way to get some of these better players who are on the fence would be to guarantee them a berth into a later round via an online event ( And not always a tournament either.)

Gotta use every tool possible to bring these guys in and if that means rewarding some of the players of the bygone era with a number then whats the harm? It'll get competitive juices flowing, get people talking and, who knows, it could be an idea thats born within this community and utilized through out the rest.

I'm looking for people who'd be interested in helping. Anyone who does, PM me. . .also, if you want links to Scarlett Johansson naked PM me.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I think that many of the offline players started in online is true, as everyone has to start somewhere.

However, they made the conscious effort to go offline, meet with other people who shared their passion in person, and put their skills to the test in a non-variable connection to each other. The recognition from those events and their placings are held in a higher standard than with an online environment, and making an official list of the top 25 players - ranking each player - lessons the meaning and purpose of the recognition towards those who did make the effort to help their offline tournament community grow.

 

[Relius Starkiller]

those who did make the effort to help their offline tournament community grow.

Everyone has different motivations.

I can tell you that my motivation, as well as Accurates' (God rest his soul ) was to win money - period. Wasn't very successful but hey, live and learn. Patrick only came along because his boy accurate was down. Koompbala came because Buy.com, the combine and the odd ranbats were close to where he lived and he just wanted to compete.

Very few people came offline with the expressed intention to grow the community.

Lists like these are about rewarding accomplishment and skill and top 10, I'll concede, do need to have an offline tournament history but for those below that tier and those hoping to possibly break into that tier you'd need to start somewhere.

The more angles we can attack online players coming offline the better - that wasn't the original intent of the idea but it could be a positive by product.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I don't see how giving recognition to online only players 'attacks' them into coming offline...