Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Please use this thread to list simple points of feedback so we can see common requests.
This will allow us to compile our own lists of points that cover as comprehensively as we can, all the key issues.
You can then easily grab from the shortlist the things you agree with and post to the feedback site, which is found here: http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/top.html
Will add as we go:
- Sidestep: Speed up the standard sidestep for all characters - lower its recovery or allow dashing to cancel it. Make strings track less immediately.
- Backdash and crouching backdash not as fluid as forward dash or crouching dash
- Restore ability for winner to continue actions/movement after KO
- Restore 4-point hold EG to hold Mid Kicks, Forward+H: Minimises guesswork for attacker.
- Remove or delay the ability to hold while in a critical stun
- Powerblow should be unholdable by normal holds to make it a stronger threat.
- Each character must have moves that cause Guard Break and/or Frame Advantage
- Ensure each character has moves that will connect after a Guard Break, and moves that cannot be Held
-When an opponent escapes a throw from a ledge grab, it should not do any damage to the attacker. Escaping is reward enough.
- Throw escapes: Add input throw escapes for throws (left, right and neutral inputs at the right timing), but make high counter throws/opponent in disadvantage or recovery inescapable.
- Decrease the hitbox and remove stun from Wakeup kicks. All wakeup kicks should be unsafe or disadvantage on block. Refine ability to sidestep, duck, or hop over with the right moves.
- Being hit while Back Dashing should not result in a Hi Counter Blow, just increase damage.
-Hold while walking backwards should require a user to return to neutral and initiate Back + Hold
Currently if you press Hold while holding Back it will perform a hold, even after a minute of pushing back. This hurts the ability to use Backstepping and spacing, because when you guard an oncoming attack and you hold instead.
Other Feedback:
- Option to change the "Extra Damage" for Power Blows between PS360 face buttons and DOA System buttons (P, K, G).
Difficult to remember which button is placed where, especially when playing on a stick that has non standard layout compared to a controller. Players may also switch between Xbox or PS3 versions, so it would help players to simply remember to press H, P, or K.
Basic frame data (each list is ordered by normal, hybrid, specialist):
Jabs: 12/2/13, 11/2/13, 10/2/13
Neutral throws: 10/2/23, 9/2/23, 8/2/23
Holds: 3/12/25, 2/13/25, 1/14/25 (low hold recovery is 30 frames)
A character can only be a specialist in one category or hybrid in two.
Stuns:
Reduce the number of attacks that cause stun.
A hold in stun can only be done after the first follow up attack lands.
Side stepping:
Should be counter hit by attacks and high counter by throws.
Increase the distance traveled.
Reduce recovery/special step attack window.
Positional data:
Add side hit and side throw animations.
Side recovery takes 3 frames, back recovery takes 6 frames.
Add command throw escapes (EDIT: added detail to avoid confusion).
One input chance for you break using the same input as the one used on you.
High counter throws inescapable.
I think High/Low holds should do the same damage as mid holds. This is how much damage Hayate's holds do:
High / Low Hold: 45 / 56 / 67
High / Low Hold (Stun): 36 / 45 / 54
Mid Hold: 30 / 37 / 45
Mid Hold (Stun): 24 / 30 / 36
Advanced Mid Hold: 55 / 68 / 82
Advanced Mid Hold (Stun): 44 / 55 / 66
Holds protect you from taking damage and they cause damage so I don't think they should do so much. Especially with the 3-point system. Advanced Holds are fine though.
- There are features in the demo that require the Right Analog Stick. Some arcade sticks do not have a Right Analog Stick, making these features difficult or impossible to use. Please provide other ways to access these features.
- Some other fighting games require the use of specific buttons for various features (text chat in Soul Calibur 5 is done by pressing L1). Some arcade stick owners only have 6-button sticks, or remove the last two buttons from their 8-button sticks. This makes it difficult/impossible to use features like this. Please allow us to change the button config of options like this.
- Camera Shake: The movement of the camera when a danger zone is activated is VERY distracting. Maybe it's just me, but I am not a fan of this at all. In competitive MK, there's a stage that shakes in a lesser fashion. It's banned from tournament play because of the shaking.
- Attacking out of Block: If I'm holding block I'd like to be just blocking and nothing else. I find myself getting counterholds and attacking because I move the stick or press a button while I'm holding block. Granted, some of these input errors are because you can press anything in SC5 while holding block and you'll still just block, which is what I'm accustomed to at the moment. However, I feel very restricted when I'm blocking and I'm constantly afraid to do anything because I keep getting random counters. I don't think there's an advantage to negating block by pressing another input so it'd be nice if they removed this.
- Inclines: I'm not a fan of inclines in fighting games, but I wouldn't complain about minor inclines. In the demo, there are drastic inclines after the danger zones are activated. I personally think it's a bit too much.
- Random Items: Please remove random items falling on the characters once a danger zone is active. (I think you can disable this in options, but I'm putting it here just in case you can't.)
- It seems to me as though there's a delay in blocking low. When I try to block low, I get hit. When I try to counter low and I'm late, I get a block instead. If blocking low is not instant, that definitely needs to be changed.
- Stun threshold is lower (2-3 hits)
- Deep stuns maximize the threshold, or push it to the limit (next hit causes knockdown, launch, reset)
This will allow us to compile our own lists of points that cover as comprehensively as we can, all the key issues.
You can then easily grab from the shortlist the things you agree with and post to the feedback site, which is found here: http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/top.html
Will add as we go:
- Sidestep: Speed up the standard sidestep for all characters - lower its recovery or allow dashing to cancel it. Make strings track less immediately.
- Backdash and crouching backdash not as fluid as forward dash or crouching dash
- Restore ability for winner to continue actions/movement after KO
- Restore 4-point hold EG to hold Mid Kicks, Forward+H: Minimises guesswork for attacker.
- Remove or delay the ability to hold while in a critical stun
- Powerblow should be unholdable by normal holds to make it a stronger threat.
- Each character must have moves that cause Guard Break and/or Frame Advantage
- Ensure each character has moves that will connect after a Guard Break, and moves that cannot be Held
-When an opponent escapes a throw from a ledge grab, it should not do any damage to the attacker. Escaping is reward enough.
- Throw escapes: Add input throw escapes for throws (left, right and neutral inputs at the right timing), but make high counter throws/opponent in disadvantage or recovery inescapable.
- Decrease the hitbox and remove stun from Wakeup kicks. All wakeup kicks should be unsafe or disadvantage on block. Refine ability to sidestep, duck, or hop over with the right moves.
- Being hit while Back Dashing should not result in a Hi Counter Blow, just increase damage.
-Hold while walking backwards should require a user to return to neutral and initiate Back + Hold
Currently if you press Hold while holding Back it will perform a hold, even after a minute of pushing back. This hurts the ability to use Backstepping and spacing, because when you guard an oncoming attack and you hold instead.
Other Feedback:
- Option to change the "Extra Damage" for Power Blows between PS360 face buttons and DOA System buttons (P, K, G).
Difficult to remember which button is placed where, especially when playing on a stick that has non standard layout compared to a controller. Players may also switch between Xbox or PS3 versions, so it would help players to simply remember to press H, P, or K.
Basic frame data (each list is ordered by normal, hybrid, specialist):
Jabs: 12/2/13, 11/2/13, 10/2/13
Neutral throws: 10/2/23, 9/2/23, 8/2/23
Holds: 3/12/25, 2/13/25, 1/14/25 (low hold recovery is 30 frames)
A character can only be a specialist in one category or hybrid in two.
Stuns:
Reduce the number of attacks that cause stun.
A hold in stun can only be done after the first follow up attack lands.
Side stepping:
Should be counter hit by attacks and high counter by throws.
Increase the distance traveled.
Reduce recovery/special step attack window.
Positional data:
Add side hit and side throw animations.
Side recovery takes 3 frames, back recovery takes 6 frames.
Add command throw escapes (EDIT: added detail to avoid confusion).
One input chance for you break using the same input as the one used on you.
High counter throws inescapable.
I think High/Low holds should do the same damage as mid holds. This is how much damage Hayate's holds do:
High / Low Hold: 45 / 56 / 67
High / Low Hold (Stun): 36 / 45 / 54
Mid Hold: 30 / 37 / 45
Mid Hold (Stun): 24 / 30 / 36
Advanced Mid Hold: 55 / 68 / 82
Advanced Mid Hold (Stun): 44 / 55 / 66
Holds protect you from taking damage and they cause damage so I don't think they should do so much. Especially with the 3-point system. Advanced Holds are fine though.
- There are features in the demo that require the Right Analog Stick. Some arcade sticks do not have a Right Analog Stick, making these features difficult or impossible to use. Please provide other ways to access these features.
- Some other fighting games require the use of specific buttons for various features (text chat in Soul Calibur 5 is done by pressing L1). Some arcade stick owners only have 6-button sticks, or remove the last two buttons from their 8-button sticks. This makes it difficult/impossible to use features like this. Please allow us to change the button config of options like this.
- Camera Shake: The movement of the camera when a danger zone is activated is VERY distracting. Maybe it's just me, but I am not a fan of this at all. In competitive MK, there's a stage that shakes in a lesser fashion. It's banned from tournament play because of the shaking.
- Attacking out of Block: If I'm holding block I'd like to be just blocking and nothing else. I find myself getting counterholds and attacking because I move the stick or press a button while I'm holding block. Granted, some of these input errors are because you can press anything in SC5 while holding block and you'll still just block, which is what I'm accustomed to at the moment. However, I feel very restricted when I'm blocking and I'm constantly afraid to do anything because I keep getting random counters. I don't think there's an advantage to negating block by pressing another input so it'd be nice if they removed this.
- Inclines: I'm not a fan of inclines in fighting games, but I wouldn't complain about minor inclines. In the demo, there are drastic inclines after the danger zones are activated. I personally think it's a bit too much.
- Random Items: Please remove random items falling on the characters once a danger zone is active. (I think you can disable this in options, but I'm putting it here just in case you can't.)
- It seems to me as though there's a delay in blocking low. When I try to block low, I get hit. When I try to counter low and I'm late, I get a block instead. If blocking low is not instant, that definitely needs to be changed.
- Stun threshold is lower (2-3 hits)
- Deep stuns maximize the threshold, or push it to the limit (next hit causes knockdown, launch, reset)
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