DOA5: New Gameplay Demo Trailer of Ayane and Hitomi
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Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
You keep saying that as if we're waiting for DOA 4 to come out again, yet you are also asking the game to change to a formula that would support stuns without holds 100%.
Fallacy.
Also, ayane's hold at 1:22 is a fucking abomination. She is clearly getting a free backturned stun off of an in-stun hold. Now if this was outside of stun, I would be cool with this development since it means they fixed the engine. But no, they actually made it worse. That right there likely has more damage potential than most, if not all, of the holds in DOA 4.
Because it completely reverses the angle of attack, it is also going to end up sending her opponent into whatever geometry that was originally intended for ayane. So that means the counter damage itself, full stun threshold damage, full juggle, full environmental setup damage completely backfiring.... all because ayane guessed right AFTER being hit with a 33% success ratio.
What the fuck! The original attackers damage potential wasn't even that high.
No, fuck that shit. Remove holds from stun. All of them. Enough is enough with this garbage.
Tenren
Well-Known Member
I just watched the Akira video from the other day, @ :27 Ayane does the same Hold into BT and Kasumi turns and attacks before Ayane does. But Ayane crushes out Kasumi's combo
edit
NVM its a diff hold in this new video she does the same hold on Hitomi @ :53
In this video she follows up with the same BT kick @ :53 and @ 1.22, In the Akria video she goes into spin. So maybe is works if you follow with the kick?
edit
NVM its a diff hold in this new video she does the same hold on Hitomi @ :53
In this video she follows up with the same BT kick @ :53 and @ 1.22, In the Akria video she goes into spin. So maybe is works if you follow with the kick?
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
If the backturned stun isn't guaranteed, it's a worthless hold.
If the backturned stun is guaranteed, it's broken as fuck.
Hilarious, right?
The only way to make it fair is to cut the active frames down severely, make it work outside of stun only, and THEN guarantee either a backturn stun, or give it a range dependent short launch.
That is a different hold. Look at the new trailer again at the timemark i mentioned.
If the backturned stun is guaranteed, it's broken as fuck.
Hilarious, right?
The only way to make it fair is to cut the active frames down severely, make it work outside of stun only, and THEN guarantee either a backturn stun, or give it a range dependent short launch.
That is a different hold. Look at the new trailer again at the timemark i mentioned.
KoF06
Member
I'm ok with Raansu. DoA should stay arock-paper-scissors game.
Since it's a middle counter, we still don't know if its an expert old or not. If it's an expert, is no more 33% chance. And After she is too far for a throw so it's just a mind game after. looks badder than Eliot's old on the doa4 for me.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Is it a worthless hold if backturned stun isn't guaranteed? You still escaped an attack string.
If it is guaranteed - depending on the follow up attack you'd think - then minimal hold active frames and neutral/non stun state need to be looked at.
Of course, lowering the active window on holds and increasing the recovery is a widely advocated measure in general.
The third option is to look at that hold leading to backturned as a frame advantage situation... it might be hitomi has a few options to escape depending on the followup attack Ayane uses.
Again, being a CPU only demo, it's hard to accurately tell what the real options are
If it is guaranteed - depending on the follow up attack you'd think - then minimal hold active frames and neutral/non stun state need to be looked at.
Of course, lowering the active window on holds and increasing the recovery is a widely advocated measure in general.
The third option is to look at that hold leading to backturned as a frame advantage situation... it might be hitomi has a few options to escape depending on the followup attack Ayane uses.
Again, being a CPU only demo, it's hard to accurately tell what the real options are
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
It shouldn't get you out of any stun, berzerk. If you screwed up, you should pay for it.
They screw up in spacing, they screw up in the read, they screw up in timing, and they screw up with the environment. Now they have to screw up 3 or 4 more times before I'm given my fucking combo? Just how many times should a person be required to make you screw up before the game tosses you some fucking charity damage?
This is why everyone hates this series. It doesn't know when to stop fucking you over.
@KoF Doesn't matter if its an "expert" hold, it's still a 33% chance. Nobody is going to launch you with a low.
If you're a character that only launches one of two ways, that sorta narrows it down even further. If you're Kokoro.... oh man.... poor Kokoro.
This is what makes holds in stun so stupid. You might as well play math fighter, because no smart choice you could possibly make would have anything to do with whats going on around you or how you've been set up. It just comes down to odds.
They screw up in spacing, they screw up in the read, they screw up in timing, and they screw up with the environment. Now they have to screw up 3 or 4 more times before I'm given my fucking combo? Just how many times should a person be required to make you screw up before the game tosses you some fucking charity damage?
This is why everyone hates this series. It doesn't know when to stop fucking you over.
@KoF Doesn't matter if its an "expert" hold, it's still a 33% chance. Nobody is going to launch you with a low.
If you're a character that only launches one of two ways, that sorta narrows it down even further. If you're Kokoro.... oh man.... poor Kokoro.
This is what makes holds in stun so stupid. You might as well play math fighter, because no smart choice you could possibly make would have anything to do with whats going on around you or how you've been set up. It just comes down to odds.
Is there gonna be an option for turning off breast jiggle like in DOA1? It's really weird and I don't want to get weird looks from people in my scene when playing this game.
Then I don't see any reason to play this when there is VF.
Then I don't see any reason to play this when there is VF.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
I for one am agreeing with Rukito on this one. Perhaps that new hold is replacing Ayanes old 4p+f grab which did allow a free follow up on CH throw in DOA4. If this is the case then I am happy with the way it is in DOA4, than it being a guaranteed guess win free damage follow up all the time. I'm happy with guaranteed wall combo's now but, more guaranteed setup's wouldn't hurt.
As for Hitomi new mid kick counter that still looks like a launcher but, it looks like the attack afterwards was just a follow up. I guess we will find out next Tuesday.
As for Hitomi new mid kick counter that still looks like a launcher but, it looks like the attack afterwards was just a follow up. I guess we will find out next Tuesday.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
No, all I am saying is they are clearly not going to change the stun system, so the least they can do is bring back setups from 3.1 that allowed us to work with the stun system properly.
Removing holds from stuns with how stuns currently work with the builds we have seen will break the game entirely as the build still clearly use DoA's traditional stun system. Given how easy it is to get a stun in DoA it would just be a never ending loop of stuns.
Unless they completely rework the stuns to work more like staggers in VF I will not agree to removing holds out of stuns completely. It would kill the game.
All of that was in 3.1/3.2
.:f+P: was shown in the trailer.I disagree, for if that were true then it meets the qualifications you described exactly. The hold is giving a parry and resetting to neutral, just one character in back-turned stance but nothing guaranteed.
You can't argue both sides Rikuto.
Keylay
Well-Known Member
I just realized that Hitomi lost all of her life in the second round from one hold Ayane did lol.
I feel like stuns are a part of DOA. But I think they should tweak the system a little bit. Make stuns that you can't hold out of. Make the first stun the opponent is into an un-holdable stun so you can continue the stun game and risk getting countered or just launch the opponent for guaranteed damage.
I kind of think it would be cool if some characters could grab opponents in certain stuns also. Like if Tina puts her opponent in the stun where they bend over after getting punched in the gut, she could do a power bomb.
I feel like stuns are a part of DOA. But I think they should tweak the system a little bit. Make stuns that you can't hold out of. Make the first stun the opponent is into an un-holdable stun so you can continue the stun game and risk getting countered or just launch the opponent for guaranteed damage.
I kind of think it would be cool if some characters could grab opponents in certain stuns also. Like if Tina puts her opponent in the stun where they bend over after getting punched in the gut, she could do a power bomb.
Yes he can. He's trying to make two separate points regarding the same situation, don't confuse it for one point where he's arguing from both sides. On one hand, a hold that can guarantee a back-turned setup is good. On the other hand, Hitomi's being punished in this particular scenario due to no fault of her own but due to the fault of the system by allowing this hold during critical.
On a more casual note, I've figured out why Hitomi looks so odd and I can't believe how simple the issue is. It's the same thing that plagued Kokoro in early builds of DOA4: the top of the girl's head isn't proportionate to the bottom. Here's a quick and dirty mock-up of a fix showing how Hitomi looks after enlarging the bottom of her head:
Tenren
Well-Known Member
There is really no way to tell how much life was lost. The 2nd round seems to start midway threw the fight. Also Ayane knocks Hitomi off the side of the building so the damage is prolly high.
The 3rd round start the same way and the hold @1 :20 after the BT kick Ayane flips over Hitomi as she wiffs a elbow blow thus being put into a critical BT stun and Ayane then kills her with a combo into power blow
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I'm not arguing two sides of anything. Both statements are true.
An in-stun hold that gives a guaranteed back stun with all the damage associated with it is complete and utter bullshit and you know this. This is what currently appears to be in the game.
Likewise the out of stun parries that give nothing like we have in DOA 4/D are worthless garbage, only good for harassing players with bad habits.
We went from one extreme to the other. That's pretty funny to me, if not entirely sad.
We both know the correct solution is to make them out of stun only, with a guaranteed followup.
Has it ever occured to you that the game fucking sucks, and there is no way you could break it further than DOA 4? Why would you even want to play another game like anything they have released in the past ten years? I mean seriously. Just checking here.
It really doesn't matter if they do it half assed or all the way with the tweaking of the stun system raansu. The damage you can get in stun threshold isn't even enough to matter. Astaroth farts for more damage than the maximum stun threshold of DOA, don't give me that bullshit excuse. I get resets after every throw and combo with him, too. Somehow people manage to get by, he still isn't considered high tier. It's not some never ending loop in that game, and it wouldn't be some never ending loop in DOA either. You just don't feel like dealing with it.
Hell, I'm all for changing the stun system but there are other solutions on top of it! instead of changing the stun system they could tweak the damage revision if thats what was really necessary to make it work. There are a thousand and one shortcuts.
If they do nothing though, the game will continue to suck. So you can advocate for a shitty broken game with the shitty broken system it has now, or you can advocate for a far better game (one that people might actually play, by the way), however broken it still may be, without holds in stun.
But It will be far better.
An in-stun hold that gives a guaranteed back stun with all the damage associated with it is complete and utter bullshit and you know this. This is what currently appears to be in the game.
Likewise the out of stun parries that give nothing like we have in DOA 4/D are worthless garbage, only good for harassing players with bad habits.
We went from one extreme to the other. That's pretty funny to me, if not entirely sad.
We both know the correct solution is to make them out of stun only, with a guaranteed followup.
Has it ever occured to you that the game fucking sucks, and there is no way you could break it further than DOA 4? Why would you even want to play another game like anything they have released in the past ten years? I mean seriously. Just checking here.
It really doesn't matter if they do it half assed or all the way with the tweaking of the stun system raansu. The damage you can get in stun threshold isn't even enough to matter. Astaroth farts for more damage than the maximum stun threshold of DOA, don't give me that bullshit excuse. I get resets after every throw and combo with him, too. Somehow people manage to get by, he still isn't considered high tier. It's not some never ending loop in that game, and it wouldn't be some never ending loop in DOA either. You just don't feel like dealing with it.
Hell, I'm all for changing the stun system but there are other solutions on top of it! instead of changing the stun system they could tweak the damage revision if thats what was really necessary to make it work. There are a thousand and one shortcuts.
If they do nothing though, the game will continue to suck. So you can advocate for a shitty broken game with the shitty broken system it has now, or you can advocate for a far better game (one that people might actually play, by the way), however broken it still may be, without holds in stun.
But It will be far better.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
I thought commentary was going to be in this gameplay trailer. Why is this also a gameplay trailer of old shit, man, talk about ass-backwards.
Rikuto, my dude, this game will still suck.
Rikuto, my dude, this game will still suck.
Orange Pork
New Member
Performing holds from stun has nothing to do with rock paper scissors. If you're stunned, then means you picked rock, and your opponent picked paper. You lost. Changing your hand to scissors after you already guessed wrong isn't a rule of rock paper scissors. That's just DOA4.