Hayabusa: Tools of a Super Ninja

[Jin Masters]

critical hit nerf really hurts. That was a big part of his pressure game.
nerf the sit down stun it once had
His neutral game threat is gone because his becoming 11 frames and toned down to 16 frames from 12
no longer being safe is a big ouch
string being eliminated hurts

These moves were so important to his pressure game and now it's all gone. So really you lose to a lot of characters up close because he so slow so your forced to fight about 2-3 characters lengths away

 

[CyberEvil]

His pressure game was massively altered, definitely. Not sure what you mean about 2H+K string being removed, though. Still there though it's maybe not a string in the truest sense. Do you mean 2H+K, 4K, P/K?

 

[SilverForte]

Seems like if you want to play Hayabusa now your defense needs to be on point. Throw punishing should be easier if his throws are grappler speed now.

 

[Brute]

I seem to be in a minority that feels Hayabusa is still extremely formidable. Though take my advice with a grain of salt, due to my inexperience. I also play a very unorthodox game with him than most, still focusing on constant pressure to prevent the opponent from guessing what will come next and countering it. If players hesitate at all, they stand no chance against him. Faking your opponent into thinking that you'll only use one ongyoin tactic and then tripping them up at a key moment is not only satisfying but greatly rewarding.

However, if your opponent rushes you, things become more problematic, as you're then forced to react rather than anticipate. This is particularly tricky against speedy characters (Jan Lee) or can still punish you even if you anticipate their behavior perfectly. Since they rely on jabs to pull you of the the ongyoin, countering high or mid-punch often works in your favor at close quarters. If you can enter the ongyoin or feel it's unsafe, go for quick flooring combos and retreat (9PK is a favorite of mine).

Personally, I feel that mixing his location teleports with his lurches (ongyoin 6K, 6P, etc.) is the key to a good Hayabusa play.

Unfortunately, I don't find his Izunas very reliable in online play. For whatever reason, the lag doesn't like to acknowledge the inputs, short of maybe the Shoho, which isn't really the best move to use anyway.

 

[CyberEvil]

Any player worth their salt will immediately smack you around if you try teleporting raw. You teleport in supposedly at neutral but it's actually a little disadvantage due to the animation. I could break down why Hayabusa isn't formidable in detail but it all boils down to this: he's only viable if the opponent respects you too much. The second that stops you become a punching bag with very little possibility of turning the tables.

 

[Brute]

Any player worth their salt will immediately smack you around if you try teleporting raw. You teleport in supposedly at neutral but it's actually a little disadvantage due to the animation. I could break down why Hayabusa isn't formidable in detail but it all boils down to this: he's only viable if the opponent respects you too much. The second that stops you become a punching bag with very little possibility of turning the tables.

I agree. You can only dominate if you can trick your opponent. In other words, teleport once or twice (unexpected for obvious reasons) then they,ll watch for teleports, at which point use the dashes. Again, I still need to test him against more high level players to see if these tactics can still hold.

 

[CyberEvil]

I only play against high level players for the most part. Hayabusa is not respected and cannot compete. Currently there are discussions about removing tracking from 3F+K too. He'll be done at that point without other buffs.

 

[SilverForte]

Bah, I don't really care how viable he is now. I'll keep playing him regardless, I'll just have to outplay the other person.

 

[Jin Masters]

(UPDATED 10/9/2012)
Just figured out some new things with Mr. Busa

Setups on block [tested against Jann Lee's p(10 frame high) and 6p(11 frame mid)]


6pk (all variants)~ 3p+k (Crushes highs and high mids)

• 8p (beats highs for a launch)

• 4pp (all variants)~ 3p+k (Crushes highs and high mids)
• 8p (beats highs for a launch)

• 4pk (all variants)~ 3p+k (beats all opponents buttons)

• 6p+k4, 2p+k (crushes highs and high mids)

Big damage ceiling combos
(normal izuna)

• 214p, dash, 4p, CB, Shoho Izuna

(high counter izuna)

• 214p, 33p, k, 8p, 41236f+p
• 214p, Shoho izuna

Max Damage after wall slams-

236p, 41236f+p​

from slams such as:

• 4pk (all variations), 4p6p (all variations), 6pk (all variations), 6p+k (all variations), 214p, 66p, 666p, 3k, Ongyoin 6p+k & Ongyoin 6k(max distance)

I'll update more, after I get my thoughts together

 

[TRI Mike]

Any good Critical Burst set-ups¿

 

[J.D.E.]

I use him. If you play the DOA4 Busa or try to, you're dead. I'm still learning him though. Need to know about his pokes & stuns & adjust to him as a grappler. I don't think he's a bad character at all. It's just I need to take the time & learn his new style of fighting.

 

[CyberEvil]

He's not a grappler. Really wish people would stop saying that. He got two fast grabs and his jab slowed down. That's it. Had they given him OHs instead of actually taking them away, then I'd grant it and he'd actually be viable. Sad fate.

 

[TRI Mike]

I don't think he's weak at all.

 

[J.D.E.]

He's not a grappler. Really wish people would stop saying that. He got two fast grabs and his jab slowed down. That's it. Had they given him OHs instead of actually taking them away, then I'd grant it and he'd actually be viable. Sad fate.

Alright, I won't say it again. But the hardest move for me to do even in the training mode is the Shinko-Izuna on the counter hold because of how it's set up now. I think I spelled that wrong.

 

[CyberEvil]

Just a tighter input window on the second part than before. All that really does is keep people honest since it's not as easy to just BS if you get it by accident. Not really any more difficult before.

 

[Brute]

He's not a grappler. Really wish people would stop saying that. He got two fast grabs and his jab slowed down. That's it. Had they given him OHs instead of actually taking them away, then I'd grant it and he'd actually be viable. Sad fate.

Agree 100%. He's not a goddamn grappler and I'm continuously annoyed with his lack of OHs.

 

[cip]

Hey guys! I'm new here but I love DOA and I've mained Hayabusa since DOA2, so I wanna talk about him with you nice folks!

According to the Prima Guide he is considered a grappler because his throws execute a frame faster, but idk about that...

Some ideas of mine about his best moves and things that may have gone unnoticed:
from Ongyoin rocks. Ongyoin in general is just amazing, especially with the new hold and the new (and flashy) throw.
You can airthrow from if it was a counter hit. You can also airthrow after certain wall bounces.
gives free , , airthrow/juggle on hit.
actually ducks (tech crouches is the term, correct?).
is your friend after blocking.

I am just amazed by how much fun Hayabusa is. He got way more difficult in my opinion, because the Izuna holds are advanced holds and he is quite slow and depends a lot on Guard Breaks. It's hard to take an opponents momentum in my opinion.

Oh and the Izuna out of the launcher combo is extremely strict. What are those, 3 frames? At the moment, I'm at a 50% success rate, which is very disappointing, considering how nice a combo this is, especially as a mix-up from Ongyoin

But if you use him correctly, he feels invincible. It's so challenging and rewarding to play him

What do you guys think?

 

[Brute]

According to the Prima Guide he is considered a grappler because his throws execute a frame faster, but idk about that...

He's not a grappler. He has no OHs to my knowledge and while his throws are punishing (see: Izunas), so are most of his strikes and holds. He's just high damage in general.

Oh and the Izuna out of the launcher combo is extremely strict. What are those, 3 frames? At the moment, I'm at a 50% success rate, which is very disappointing, considering how nice a combo this is, especially as a mix-up from Ongyoin

IMO, the Shoho Izuna is the easiest Izuna to perform in Hayabusa's move list. It's fast to execute and the lifted pre-strikes alleviate the pressure from worrying about counter-attacks while you perform it. As long as the launching punch connects, you're good to go (unless lag interferes). Note that the JS roll can be done in any direction. It's not as strict as it seems.

But if you use him correctly, he feels invincible. It's so challenging and rewarding to play him
What do you guys think?

Pretty much the same. He's no longer OP like he was in 4, as his vast array of unsafe moves mixed with his generally slower speed leave him very vulnerable. But in the hands of a tactician, he's highly rewarding. High risk, high reward. That's what makes him so gratifying for me.

And using the Izuna as a finishing move just feels like so much badass just wiped the screen it's insane.

 

[cip]

He's not a grappler. He has no OHs to my knowledge and while his throws are punishing (see: Izunas), so are most of his strikes and holds.

It's just what the guide says. I don't consider him a grappler, either. Although his handstand throw is an OH.

IMO, the Shoho Izuna is the easiest Izuna to perform in Hayabusa's move list. (...)It's not as strict as it seems.

Easier then the throw? Then I'm doing something really wrong. Even the holds I find easier. I use the PS3's d-pad, which really doesn't give me much trouble doing full circles normally. But when the throw whiffs, I don't know if it's because of bad timing or bad directional input. Can you just spam circles all the time like you can with normal Izunas?

And using the Izuna as a finishing move just feels like so much badass just wiped the screen it's insane.

Oh yeah

 

[Brute]

It's just what the guide says. I don't consider him a grappler, either. Although his handstand throw is an OH.

Oh; didn't know that, actually.

Easier then the throw? Then I'm doing something really wrong. Even the holds I find easier. I use the PS3's d-pad, which really doesn't give me much trouble doing full circles normally. But when the throw whiffs, I don't know if it's because of bad timing or bad directional input. Can you just spam circles all the time like you can with normal Izunas?

Pretty much, though it's one-third the effort because you only have to do one roll and then "throw."
But yeah, I find it much easier to do mid-battle than the otoshi, and it's easier to trap people with it, too.
With online lag as it is I don't even try the otoshi. Way too risky. I regularly do Shohos, though.