Helena 1.03 Changes

[Doug Nguyen]

Helena's Sit Down Stuns
Pre Patch:
6PP, 3PPP & SSP > +15 Only guarantee 3P.
BT 7P > +13 Guarantees nothing.
214P > +13 Only guarantees in string follow up.

Post Patch:
6PP, 3PPP & SSP > Is now +23 guaranteeing CB.
BT 7P > Is now +18(?) Guarantees a launcher.
214P > Is now +(18) Guarantees a launcher.

With the glitch in effect her sit down stuns have respectable guaranteed follow ups. She can guarantee CB now and before she couldn't even guarantee a launcher.

Read this: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/guaranteed-set-ups.2364/

That article there explains how bad her sit down stuns are and how the removal of wall interaction weakened them further. Without the glitch that is what we are stuck with.

Kinda random but since your talking about unholdable stuns. Have you ever had the feint stun (I think its a feint stun) from Helena's BKO 6P4P, it happens when only 2 slaps hit for the 4p part. Ive never seen anyone hold out of it, and if you dont hit them, they just fall over. Its really random though, i tried it in training but cant get it. I dont know if it required certain scenarios.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Kinda random but since your talking about unholdable stuns. Have you ever had the feint stun (I think its a feint stun) from Helena's BKO 6P4P, it happens when only 2 slaps hit for the 4p part. Ive never seen anyone hold out of it, and if you dont hit them, they just fall over. Its really random though, i tried it in training but cant get it. I dont know if it required certain scenarios.

I've never seen it myself but I am guessing it is like her BKO K where they cannot SE out of it but they can counter.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I've never seen it myself but I am guessing it is like her BKO K where they cannot SE out of it but they can counter.

Does BKO K cause them to fall over if they dont counter? Because the one im talking about is like Jann lee 1PK, i think its called feint stun but im not sure. And i havent seen anyone counter out of it yet.

 

[BlackDiamond890]

It's almost like the CB stun, if you don't hit them they fall down face first. It tends to happen when someone sticks a hitbox into BKO 6P4P. It's incredibly unpredictable, but I tend to BT 4P most of the time anyways, so 4PK launches for me regardless. BT 4PK, the kick is hard to see coming and react to because they can't counter the punch.

4K WOULD probably be a better choice, but like I said, it's so inconsistant it's stupid to rely on it.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

It's almost like the CB stun, if you don't hit them they fall down face first. It tends to happen when someone sticks a hitbox into BKO 6P4P. It's incredibly unpredictable, but I tend to BT 4P most of the time anyways, so 4PK launches for me regardless. BT 4PK, the kick is hard to see coming and react to because they can't counter the punch.

4K WOULD probably be a better choice, but like I said, it's so inconsistant it's stupid to rely on it.

Yes exactly. I wish it was more consistent. Can they hold out of it though, i havent seen anyone.

 

[BlackDiamond890]

I don't believe so, it's considered a faint stun. I've had it happen a handful of times and nobody has ever countered out of it. If you notice it, and don't think you can react in time to launch, you might want to try doing BT 1P, if it hits them standing you extend the stun and start a mix up game, if it hits them as they hit the ground, which it has ample time to, they can tech but the stun is LONG, it has the chance to force them up. And if they do tech, you wouldn't be terribly unsafe, you may still be at some small advantage.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

I don't believe so, it's considered a faint stun. I've had it happen a handful of times and nobody has ever countered out of it. If you notice it, and don't think you can react in time to launch, you might want to try doing BT 1P, if it hits them standing you extend the stun and start a mix up game, if it hits them as they hit the ground, which it has ample time to, they can tech but the stun is LONG, it has the chance to force them up. And if they do tech, you wouldn't be terribly unsafe, you may still be at some small advantage.

I wish there was a actually way of doing the move, i feel its 1/30 times it happens.

 

[CrimsonCJ]

Does BKO K cause them to fall over if they dont counter? Because the one im talking about is like Jann lee 1PK, i think its called feint stun but im not sure. And i havent seen anyone counter out of it yet.

It is, and yes, you can't counter out of it. You just can't force it to happen.

 

[Dravidian]

There may be good news on the horizon!
From the change log:

These changes also apply to the version for Xbox 360, despite Ver. 1.03 not being distributed for that version.
Disabled tech rolls for certain moves for which tech rolls had mistakenly been allowed in Ver. 1.03.

Seems like her false force tech may be back!

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

There may be good news on the horizon!
From the change log:


Seems like her false force tech may be back!

It is back.

 

[Dravidian]

sweet! I guess some rapes really do happen accidentally.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Just got the patch, so since 3KK does the feint stun, what can you catch them up with other than the follow up K. They just drop now since 33P doesnt work.

 

[TRI Mike]

Did 214P cause sit-down before¿ and what the hell is a half-hit attribute¿

 

[Doug Nguyen]

Did 214P cause sit-down before¿ and what the hell is a half-hit attribute¿

Half hit is when you do a low kick that barely hits, so it does half the damage.

 

[TRI Mike]

But the attribute is constant or just when the kicks "barely hit"¿ If it happens 100% of the times I use those kicks then it's a pretty retarded nerf.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

But the attribute is constant or just when the kicks "barely hit"¿ If it happens 100% of the times I use those kicks then it's a pretty retarded nerf.

Its also low punches too. But its not that big of a deal for me because those lows dont take that much anyways right? So half isnt much.

 

[TRI Mike]

It's still pretty retarded imo. I don't understand Team Ninja anymore...

I'm back btw.

 

[Akumasama]

Has it been mentioned that P,P,4+K (and I think all other variations like 9+P, 4+K as well) behaves differently in 1.03? I'm talking if this move is used in an air juggle.
Before 1.03 the last kick used to send your opponent to the ground, now it juggles it a bit upwards, altough I don't think it's enough to guarantee another combo after unless you used a highlauncher to start the juggle.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Has it been mentioned that P,P,4+K (and I think all other variations like 9+P, 4+K as well) behaves differently in 1.03? I'm talking if this move is used in an air juggle.
Before 1.03 the last kick used to send your opponent to the ground, now it juggles it a bit upwards, altough I don't think it's enough to guarantee another combo after unless you used a highlauncher to start the juggle.

Yes instead of using 33P4P > 6P as an air combo into PFT you can do PP4K > 66K instead, launch height permitting of course.

 

[Akumasama]

What's PFT? (please don't get mad at me for being a terminology noob!)
I do sometimes hit opponents with 66+K, at least light and midweight characters. Most of the time I'd say.
But some other times it leaves you open, it's a matter of like a couple of nanoseconds, and online it's not always easy when you don't have perfect latency environments.

Btw, anybody has DETAILED Helena frame data? There are some moves which you can't really measure with the in-game advanced info.
For instance the 2 different ways to enter Bokuho, 1+P+K and 2+P+K (or 3, it's the same).
In past DOA games the 1 version was a few frames faster, but left Helena a bit more backwards. Which are the exact Bokuho frames in DoA5?

Same question for Teishitsu, how many frames does it take to activate, how many frames does it last? It's much faster than DoA4's, reminds me of DoA2's, but sadly doesn't evade all mids anymore.

And also for Standing P+K. In DoA4 it evaded highs, and it does so here as well. How many frames 'til helena is considered "crouching highs" and how many frames it stays so? Also in DoA4 for a couple of frames it used to evade some mids too, wonder if that happens in DoA5 as well. Honestly in DoA4 it always felt more like a bug than something intended...