Hitomi Match Up and Strategy Thread

[iHajinShinobi]

That's not what I asked you. Smh. I asked you what would you call hitting someone up off the ground if they stay laid out. Did you even read my comment? See this is the problem: You come in to to correct me, but when I [ask] for an answer, I get nothing. You seem to not understand how frustrating that is, and an argument is different from a discussion, which I'm trying to have with you since you're giving "help" and "enlightenment", yet I'm getting no help.

Is it me? Am I wrong for asking questions? Please. Do tell. Because you haven't so far.

and in case you just... maybe can't see very well or something.

I'm asking for answers my to my questions my good sir. It'd be appreciated if I could have them since you say I'm wrong, which I never disagreed with to start.

If you're going to type in a large font, at least double check for typos.

Now, I already told you before that what you typed up earlier explaining what force techs are was inaccurate. I gave you a clear example of what a force tech is and how it works (this is what I'm trying to enlighten you on). But you still seem to have it that what you typed before is still somewhat correct (people here just can't seem to admit when they're wrong for some reason).

Combo'ing someone just to followup with a low or something in hopes of an opponent not techrolling is not performing a force tech. It is not a force get up or whatever you're calling it. It's just hitting them while they are on the ground. Performing a force tech (like in the example I gave earlier) is eliminating all guessing on an opponent's wakeup. You don't back up out of fear of a wakeup kick, you force them off the ground immediately and can continue to be the aggressor while being at advantage.

There isn't any reason for me to answer anything else because it's irrelevant.

 

[TakedaZX]

There isn't any reason for me to answer anything else because it's irrelevant.

What are you too good to help anyone out? The Tekken Oki discussion didn't have anything said that was "irrelevant"

Now, I already told you before that what you typed up earlier explaining what force techs are was inaccurate. I gave you a clear example of what a force tech is and how it works (this is what I'm trying to enlighten you on). But you still seem to have it that what you typed before is still somewhat correct

I mean I don't see why you're still back there when it was corrected and the basis behind both forced techs and kicking them on the ground yields the same result: forcing them to get up and giving you advantage. If that's not the same result (wake up kick risk or not), then I must be mentally retarded.

If you read the whole post, which I'm starting to believe you didn't, you would've have noticed that I said it was taking a risk to make them get up, by first conditioning them to not wake up kick period and that SOME will stay on the ground and wait, and counting on them staying on the ground giving you the edge to hit them up. You can force someone up without it being a forced tech... if that's what you're saying. If you don't believe that go into the lab and ground someone with Hitomi, then 3h+k on them. I assure you they will stand up, to make it easier make sure you record you opponent doing nothing first then play that back so that they won't get up immediately.

people here just can't seem to admit when they're wrong for some reason.

Must be blind.

I get it, I get it. I was falsely informed that hitting them on the ground to force them up and force teching fall under the same tree, guaranteed or not.

Combo'ing someone just to followup with a low or something in hopes of an opponent not techrolling is not performing a force tech. It is not a force get up or whatever you're calling it. It's just hitting them while they are on the ground. Performing a force tech (like in the example I gave earlier) is eliminating all guessing on an opponent's wakeup. You don't back up out of fear of a wakeup kick, you force them off the ground immediately and can continue to be the aggressor while being at advantage.

So I ask you what else I should call "following up with a low", yet I get no answer because it's "irrelevant"? Is the no relevance to ground game with forced techs and kicking someone until they get up?[/quote]

 

[MajesticBlue]

This is how I always broke it down.
Untechable. Any time you make them unable to tech.
Force Tech. Any time you use a move to force them off the ground with advantage that is not your generic otg.
Logic makes that sound very right sounding depending on how you look at it.
I could see how somebody finds it confusing. He could have read something I typed up lol.

 

[TakedaZX]

This is how I always broke it down.
Untechable. Any time you make them unable to tech.
Force Tech. Any time you use a move to force them off the ground with advantage that is not your generic otg.
Logic makes that sound very right sounding depending on how you look at it.
I could see how somebody finds it confusing. He could have read something I typed up lol.

That's fine... but apparently I never admitted I was wrong? Apparently he wants me to write up an apology letter with "I was wrong" in shiny lettering or some shit, and apparently he's too good to answer anyone's questions because... he finds everything I say irrelevant to anything. I mean that's what he just said right?

 

[MajesticBlue]

I'm not gonna put words in anybody's mouth. the point is as long as people understand the data you are trying to share I see no problem. Maybe by irrelevant he means off topic. At least you went out of your way to try and share some info. Wrong terms or not I'm sure it has uses. Is this about the new hard knock down juggles?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I mean I don't see why you're still back there, when it was corrected and the basis behind both forced techs and kicking them on the ground yields the same result, forcing them to get up and giving you advantage. If that's not the same result (wake up kick risk or not), then I must be mentally retarded.

What you explained before is not performing a force tech though.

 

[TakedaZX]

I'm not gonna put word in anybody's mouth. the point is as long as people understand the data you are trying to share I see no problem. Maybe by irrelevant he means off topic. At least you went out of your way to try and share some info. Wrong terms or not I'm sure it has uses.

That's fine you really don't need to. I'm not trying to drag this on either. I'm just over here trying to have my info as correct as possible.

 

[TakedaZX]

What you explained before is not performing a force tech though.

Hajin. Tell me honestly. Are you just ignorant?

2. (Since someone has a problem with everything I write) Forcing Get Ups.
Chances are that some will just stop trying anything as far as retaliation goes purely out of frustration, or to take time to think of what to do next. This is where you gotta apply pressure. Force them up and continue your onslaught and eventually they'll get the picture. Just because they don't get up right away though, doesn't mean they won't get up (and wake up kick), so if you throw a slower move, chances are you could be at disadvantage after they stand up, or worse, you may have to take a wake up kick. Here's some options:

• 
• 
• 
• 
• 

Also recognize that I never misunderstood that there was a risk in hitting them up if that's what you're trying to get at...

 

[MajesticBlue]

Ok, I read what you posted. You are talking about a simplified version of what everybody is doing with hard knock down moves. Your tactic may work but is not as scary and does not give as much pressure as a hard knockdown juggle. Pretty much what you are doing is a general ground game oki.

At part 1 you talk about trying to scare the wake up kicks out of them.While just reading them correctly can get them to stop em, there are more effective ways to do so. This is where hard knockdowns come in. After a hard knock down you force them into a ground game 50 50. A tech or no tech situation. Now what you posted from part 2 onwards comes into play. If they don't tech I would think she has a guaranteed option that kicks them up and gives you frame advantage. If you read their tech you have all the frame advantage in the world. (I know you know this just saying.)


It sounds like all the problems are from everybody using their own terms. (I am guilty of this.)
Like Ayane's new force tech stuff. Since the last hit techs them up and is a force tech, I called every ground hitting move that forces you up a force tech. Seeing how' Ayane's is in an untechable situation is why it is called a force tech. I always saw that as another type of untechable that forces a tech.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Performing a force tech should not contain any element of guessing.

^ Your above post is not what a force tech is. See now I'm actually beginning to get a bit frustrated with you. I've explained several times already that a force tech is something that ends with a combo immediately forcing opponents off the ground. They do not have the luxury of choosing to tech or not. They are forced off the ground. This eliminates the wakeup game for opponents altogether.

There is no possible way for the attacker to be at disadvantage. Only the defender is at disadvantage.

 

[MajesticBlue]

See how at 0:05 HItomi is never really on the ground? That is a force tech.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

^ Those are force techs (thank you MajesticBlue).

 

[TakedaZX]

^ Your above post is not what a force tech is. See now I'm actually beginning to get a bit frustrated with you. I've explained several times already that a force tech is something that ends with a combo immediately forcing opponents off the ground. They do not have the luxury of choosing to tech or not. They are forced off the ground. This eliminates the wakeup game for opponents altogether.

There is no possible way for the attacker to be at disadvantage. Only the defender is at disadvantage.

OH FUCK HAJIN, WERE [ALMOST] ON THE SAME PAGE.


Honestly you make me want to gouge my own eyes out.

We established that what I posted wasn't "forced techs". Forcing them to get up in general is slightly different but ends the same if they don't get up on their... that was what I was getting at, which is why I changed the name to "forced get ups" as a temporary name, then I ASKED you, what would you call those instead, if forced get ups perhaps wasn't the name for these moves? See now were talking about what I posted as opposed to forced techs which are GUARANTEED.

The underlined section CLEARLY states they're not guaranteed. But you came and... posted about they're not forced techs. Then this quote of mine that I keep posting, seems to go over your head again and again.

I get it, I get it. I was falsely informed that hitting them on the ground to force them up and force teching fall under the same tree, guaranteed or not.

So right there It's clear that I already know that forced techs aren't what I posted. Yet we keep running in circles.

See how at 0:05 HItomi is never really on the ground? That is a force tech.

Thanks. Now that I know (already did). We can get back to my subject. What do you call the forcing up of someone who decides not to get up on their own, or wake up kick? I mean The post no longer says "forced tech", yet I mean Hajin is over her sound like a kid with this constant "but what you said wasn't a forced tech". That's irrelevant now since:

I get it, I get it. I was falsely informedthat hitting them on the ground to force them up and force teching fall under the same tree, guaranteed or not.

Now I know it's only if they're guaranteed... Why I we running in circles?

 

[MajesticBlue]

It looked like a perfect movie time.

I agree when somebody stays on the ground and you force them up it needs a name. I wrongly called them force techs.( Since that is what they do in a sense) You are just teching them up so we could go without a name and just say "to tech them".

 

[iHajinShinobi]

It was, he clearly wasn't getting it.

@TakedaZX: If you seriously need an answer to your question about what to call "kicking someone on the ground to force them up". Call it whatever you want, instead of displaying constant whinning and hostility.

Honestly you make me want to gouge my own eyes out.

That's awesome.

 

[Raansu]

You guys are both driving me nuts. Neither of you are wrong lol.

Takeda, the inputs you posted are force techs, regardless of what anyone says, those are force techs as they do force the opponent to get up off the ground. The only difference is those are not guaranteed and really only work if the opponent just lays there and does nothing. The video with Jann Lee is also a force tech, the difference is those setups happen to be guaranteed.

Both of you are right...so stop bickering lol.

 

[MajesticBlue]

Logic says that does makes sense. Still, I learned my terms elsewhere so I didn't think it was worth arguing over lol.

 

[Raansu]

Logic says that does makes sense. Still, I learned my terms elsewhere so I didn't think it was worth arguing over lol.

Well you know what the old saying goes for DoA... Whatever you learned in other fighters...forget it.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Well you know what the old saying goes for DoA... Whatever you learned in other fighters...forget it.

^ Pretty much this.

 

[TakedaZX]

It was, he clearly wasn't getting it.

Arrogant much? Obviously you're not getting it, since all you can really say is "what you said in the first post wasn't a forced tech". After we established it you stuck on the fact that it's "not a forced tech" even though that was no longer the subject of interest.

@TakedaZX: If you seriously need an answer to your question about what to call "kicking someone on the ground to force them up". Call it whatever you want, instead of displaying constant whinning and hostility.

Then don't waste my time by telling me I'm wrong at something then when I ask for an answer to a further question in (that you brought to my attention), reiterate a previous section of the subject. Answer what the subject of interest is or make it clear that you have no intention, or the knowledge to answer that question, rather than circle around to the first subject to try and continue and push up your "superiority" to people here, AND if you're going to do the latter, make sure you give a legitimate reason to why you feel it unnecessary. There really still hasn't been a reason stated, which is why I'M going on and on. Every comment I've made is a question as to "why" your answer is that or rather what would be a different solution... smh... again.

You guys are both driving me nuts. Neither of you are wrong lol.

Takeda, the inputs you posted are force techs, regardless of what anyone says, those are force techs as they do force the opponent to get up off the ground. The only difference is those are not guaranteed and really only work if the opponent just lays there and does nothing. The video with Jann Lee is also a force tech, the difference is those setups happen to be guaranteed.

Both of you are right...so stop bickering lol.

It is, is it... that's interesting, that's what I thought lol. Thanks.