DOA5U Homework Time! Footsies and Spacing 101

[iHajinShinobi]

Honestly, this was meant for a universal topic. I meant to place it under DOA general discussion but didn't realize it until after I made the topic.

I also have no clue who pinned this to the front page, as I did not request it. I feel I may know why but I thank you anyway.

 

[synce]

I think spacing is important in any fighter but much less so in DOA. Footsies are a waste of time in a game where you're punished with CH's for backdashing and any hit leads into a guessing game, not to mention the fact that everything is safe online (where 99.99% of DOA players will find anyone "good" at DOA) so your opponent has free reign on ranged attacks.

In Tekken for example there's no CH penalty for being hit while backdashing, and if someone whiffs something big you can punish with a launcher for at least twice the guaranteed damage you can do in DOA. Then there's SF, which is kind of a silly comparison since it's so radically different from DOA but again you're not punished for backdashing. In fact you gain some invulnerability

So I think that's why you rarely see footsies in DOA and why high level is much more movement oriented in other games (Tekken and SF being my fav examples)

 

[Tenryuga]

Spacing isn't important in a game that rewards you immensely for positioning yourself correctly on the battlefield? Most guaranteed damage in this game comes from walls and dangerzones and there are moves that will splat your opponent on NH and CH for a damaging enviornmental juggle.

I would say the fact that you get CH for backdashing is actually a form of reward for good spacing on the opponents part. You were shitty during your footsies and spacing so now when you try to backdash to cover up your screwup you get screwed which is a fair penalty. It's precisely because of stuff like that that spacing is important in this game. The Soul series and VF implement this penalty as well. Jean Kujo can do 40%+ just because you tried to backdash at a terrible range.

Also the Korean Backdash in this game is so godlike for spacing. You get from one end of the screen to the other in an instant. In other fighters I have seen this form of movement looks sluggish so you might as well not even do it.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

I can't help but be annoyed by an Ayane player telling me I need to space better. Trust me I try, but if a quicker character(like Ayane) wants to get close really isn't much I can do about that. Also catching up to said characters if they do want space is another issue.

Like I said I'm still trying but still irritating when people who use the quickest moving character in the game tell me to move quicker in a tank

 

[Awesmic]

I can't help but be annoyed by an Ayane player telling me I need to space better. Trust me I try, but if a quicker character(like Ayane) wants to get close really isn't much I can do about that. Also catching up to said characters if they do want space is another issue.

Like I said I'm still trying but still irritating when people who use the quickest moving character in the game tell me to move quicker in a tank

The internet can be misinterpreting of context at times. But Hajin isn't trying to talk down on or berate anyone.

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

I don't think he is, still irritating

 

[Malfury]

This was a great read!

Spacing and footsies are no doubt very important in every fighting game. I can say I'm quite experienced with many levels of footsies and movement tech across many games.. But the biggest thing for most players is getting away from more experienced players. When I played AkaShocka for the first time, I literally couldn't space or get away from him at all, not because my movement was horrible, but because he knew how to take all my options away.

I guess my point is, spacing and footsies takes tons of practice, research and experience to be effective. You can read and watch people do it all day, but you need some damn good intuition if you ever want to go toe to toe with a decent/well versed player.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Like I said I'm still trying but still irritating when people who use the quickest moving character in the game tell me to move quicker in a tank

Keep in mind, that this thread was originally in the Ayane character forums, and the original intended readers were Ayane users. However, the discussion points are still something that every player can learn from.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Spacing isn't important in a game that rewards you immensely for positioning yourself correctly on the battlefield?

Well, his point was that it wasn't as important as in some other games. There are games were I would give up 90% of my health to start in a certain position. As good as environmental damage is, I'm not giving up more than 40% for a good start in DOA (unless it's Tag or Home). It's not that neutral game isn't playable in DOA. It's that DOA is not momentum based.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

It's not that neutral game isn't playable in DOA. It's that DOA is not momentum based.

Wrong, VERY wrong. DOA is definitely a momentum based game.

I can't help but be annoyed by an Ayane player telling me I need to space better. Trust me I try, but if a quicker character(like Ayane) wants to get close really isn't much I can do about that. Also catching up to said characters if they do want space is another issue.

Like I said I'm still trying but still irritating when people who use the quickest moving character in the game tell me to move quicker in a tank

lol. Well pardon me for trying to do something insightful for my game's community, as I usually do.

I think spacing is important in any fighter but much less so in DOA. Footsies are a waste of time in a game where you're punished with CH's for backdashing and any hit leads into a guessing game, not to mention the fact that everything is safe online (where 99.99% of DOA players will find anyone "good" at DOA) so your opponent has free reign on ranged attacks.

No, and fundamentals hardly exist online as it is in this game because the only thing most do is wack buttons till they hit something for an obvious critical burst set up you can barely hold online. And we all know online is not a sound way of playing this game because latency allows anything to happen as they nomally wouldn't.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Well, that's bad wording on my part. Every fighting game is momentum based. DOA is not nearly as momentum based as some other games, though.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Well, that's bad wording on my part. Every fighting game is momentum based. DOA is not nearly as momentum based as some other games, though.

Yes it is. Helena is a great example of how well one can keep up momentum with a character AND mind games applied.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I don't know about that. These are an example of what I mean by momentum based. As far as I know, Helena stuff doesn't come close to stuff like that.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I can't help but be annoyed by an Ayane player telling me I need to space better. Trust me I try, but if a quicker character(like Ayane) wants to get close really isn't much I can do about that. Also catching up to said characters if they do want space is another issue.

Like I said I'm still trying but still irritating when people who use the quickest moving character in the game tell me to move quicker in a tank

This topic has nothing to do with Ayane. Hajin spaces properly with any character he uses. Spacing and footsies are general skills that apply to all characters. You just need to learn how to utilize it with each character effectively.

Well, that's bad wording on my part. Every fighting game is momentum based. DOA is not nearly as momentum based as some other games, though.

DOA's possibly one of the most momentum-based games especially at a high level because it's very heavily mindgames-based. Once you lose your head in the game, your opponent gets control. This is how people can make comebacks and win many rounds consecutively.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Let me give you a short example of momentum in DOA. Let's take Rachel, most think her stomp is bad because it's no longer retarded and has risks like everyone else's ground hit. This is not the case.

A smart Rachel like Lopedo or Kwiggles, or even E-Mann will get his knockdown and force you into their oki. You don't tech, you get stomped. You tech up backwards, Rachel retains advantage anyway because she is controlling your wake up. Helena will do the same thing.

You can also keep up momentum with a strong footsies game if you're making opponents scared to move or press a button.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with the topic.

 

[SlothFacts]

I don't think Sashi ever meant to imply you can't maintain momentum in DoA. I took his comments to mean that DoA provides you much stronger options to escape momentum than most other games. Which it does, and which is perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that momentum doesn't still exist in DoA. You're right that there's still oki and blenders and the like.

Anyway, thank you for always taking the time to write up things like this, Hajin! A ton of what you've written in the Ayane section has been incredibly helpful to me! I don't post much, but since I'm posting in one of your threads, I figured I may as well just thank you now, haha. I really appreciate the effort you put in to sharing what you know!

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I don't think Sashi ever meant to imply you can't maintain momentum in DoA. I took his comments to mean that DoA provides you much stronger options to escape momentum than most other games. Which it does, and which is perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that momentum doesn't still exist in DoA. You're right that there's still oki and blenders and the like.

I think you're confusing momentum with pressure. Momentum in DOA comes from being able to get in your opponents head in order to control the match. Whoever controls the match and the pace, controls the momentum. Having control over space such as footsies, allows you to maintain momentum too along with blenders.

 

[Malfury]

I don't think Sashi ever meant to imply you can't maintain momentum in DoA. I took his comments to mean that DoA provides you much stronger options to escape momentum than most other games. Which it does, and which is perfectly fine. It doesn't mean that momentum doesn't still exist in DoA. You're right that there's still oki and blenders and the like.

Anyway, thank you for always taking the time to write up things like this, Hajin! A ton of what you've written in the Ayane section has been incredibly helpful to me! I don't post much, but since I'm posting in one of your threads, I figured I may as well just thank you now, haha. I really appreciate the effort you put in to sharing what you know!

That's how I took it too. There's more defensive and evasive options to get away, or even destroy momentum in DoA than games like Tekken, where you have to weigh options to get out of momentum situations with the least amount of damage.

Anyways, isn't this getting a bit off topic?

 

[AkaShocka]

I love this right here. Very informational. But lets get to it:

I'm not gonna lie to you, for some reason I always thought spacing wasn't such a good tool, idk why I just didn't. And to tell the truth, I was one of those "Ugh, turtler! Jeez, learn to fight" guys at one point in time. But what actually showed me how good and useful spacing is was when I decided to use Lisa. My first few days in the game with her I'm really wondering how I can get these moves off without getting interrupted all the time. At first, I got into using her 9k, 3k, BT 9k etc etc, but they always got interrupted and i got CHed. This was really annoying me but then i realized all of these have good reach. Thats when I started backing up with lisa and taking time and spacing so I can use some of these moves (they are effective from range too, especially 9k) that I couldn't use so much up close.

This playstyle that I always lost to and always said was terrible was actually benefit-able for me and helped me improve a lot. When I was being stubborn and thinking "Omg... hate chasing you" I was so determined to hit the person that I threw out stupid stuff and then they would punish me for it. I was so blind to realize that getting impatient and throwing out stupid stuff is exactly what they wanted me to do and I fell for it each time. Now, this style is actually a style I actually enjoy using and its truthfully legit.

 

[PMS_Akali]

There are very few things that annoy me more than a turtling Jann Lee. I think he has amazing spacing that people don't realize. Same with Lisa.