I Am The Shadow... The True Self... [General Discussion]
- Thread starter StrikerSashi
- Start date
Added Phase's whole information to the wiki. Thanks @Tenryuga for revision.
http://www.freestepdodge.com/wiki/phase-4/
http://www.freestepdodge.com/wiki/phase-4/
AmbientXVII
New Member
Completely new to DOA5. Just started learning just to play Phase-4 xD.
Which of her moves are best to throw out in neutral? Also, what are some of her normal-hit BnBs? Most of the combos on the combo thread are for holds/throws/counter hit.
Thanks!
Which of her moves are best to throw out in neutral? Also, what are some of her normal-hit BnBs? Most of the combos on the combo thread are for holds/throws/counter hit.
Thanks!
Completely new to DOA5. Just started learning just to play Phase-4 xD.
Which of her moves are best to throw out in neutral? Also, what are some of her normal-hit BnBs? Most of the combos on the combo thread are for holds/throws/counter hit.
Thanks!
Depending on what neutral means for you, I would recommend P, PP, 2P, 6P, KK, 3K, 6K, H+K, 8P.
3P maybe too. In general, just her safe or semi safe moves.
For some BnB combos, check out @D3taylz post here:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/phase-4s-gigantic-combo-thread.4620/page-3#post-194166
33P > 2P > PP 6PK
33K > 33P > 2P > 6PK or PKKK
33K > 4P > 4K > CHI~K > TEN~T
4K > CHI~K > TEN~P > 8K > TEN~T
4K > CHI~K > TEN~P
are some too (just out of my mind, hope it's right). In general, you can use most of the combo enders from those labeled as counter-hit combos too, you just have to increase the stun level for the correct launch height.
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3P is not a neutral poke, unsafe at -8. Throw punishable.
Indeed, that's why I wrote maybe. He might be able to use it on opponents who like to do evasive moves (like Bayman with his tank rolls) or do not tend to throw punish a lot. It depends on which kind of level he wants to play, though. If he want's to play her competitively, he shouldn't go for it that often but yeah, since you even see missed punishment at tournaments a lot and it's not easy to stay safe with Phase in general, I still consider it as useable in some cases.
Same thing for KK. It's also unsafe on block but still useful at neutral against characters with punch parries like Hitomi or Leifang.
K is, not KK.
Zephyrion
Member
I found something quite interesting yesterday, although very gimmicky and situational, but still, thought it would be good sharing it.
So yeah, Phase 4 is definitely lacking in the force tech department, since the moves with force tech properties are slow or part of a chain, I tested some possible setups and for now, I only found one that might be useful, although a bit hard since it changes depending on weight classes. Force techs aren't even that useful for Phase 4, since she is unsafe, and not exactly a pressure character. But hey, the more you know...
So at the end of a combo you want to use or Tenfu teleport . for the force tech to work, the K part must hit as low as possible to the ground, so you'll often have to use delays and late TPs to get the result. You'll need a keen eye to make this work (it works pretty well with every classes, but it's pretty hard on super heavy chars and Alpha, since you'll need a perfect timing) since the height and the fall speed depends of both the duration of your juggle and the weight of the opponent.
If you do it properly the only way to escape it is either to tech roll, or to neutral tech as fast as possible, you get +12 on the force tech. Neutral tech leaves you safe at -4 or so while tech rolling leaves you open at an awful -14/-15. BUT if you choose to not input the teleport follow-up you end up at +10 frame advantage on tech roll, and if they choose to not roll, you can still work them on the ground with 2Ks and other moves to force them getting up
Now this setup is actually quite useful when near walls, as people don't bother to tech rolls, expecting a wall slam from the, or simply don't bother to tech.Y ou can force a wake-up there and enjoy Phase 4's incredibly violent wall game, since either 236T or any stun into wall-slamming move will get them in a world of hurt.
So yeah like every gimmick, it gets stale pretty soon if you overuse it, but if you mix it up cleverly, you'll get at least some respect in the wake-up game every once in a while, which is always a nice plus
So yeah, Phase 4 is definitely lacking in the force tech department, since the moves with force tech properties are slow or part of a chain, I tested some possible setups and for now, I only found one that might be useful, although a bit hard since it changes depending on weight classes. Force techs aren't even that useful for Phase 4, since she is unsafe, and not exactly a pressure character. But hey, the more you know...
So at the end of a combo you want to use
or Tenfu teleport . for the force tech to work, the K part must hit as low as possible to the ground, so you'll often have to use delays and late TPs to get the result. You'll need a keen eye to make this work (it works pretty well with every classes, but it's pretty hard on super heavy chars and Alpha, since you'll need a perfect timing) since the height and the fall speed depends of both the duration of your juggle and the weight of the opponent.If you do it properly the only way to escape it is either to tech roll, or to neutral tech as fast as possible, you get +12 on the force tech. Neutral tech leaves you safe at -4 or so while tech rolling leaves you open at an awful -14/-15. BUT if you choose to not input the teleport follow-up you end up at +10 frame advantage on tech roll, and if they choose to not roll, you can still work them on the ground with 2Ks and other moves to force them getting up
Now this setup is actually quite useful when near walls, as people don't bother to tech rolls, expecting a wall slam from the
, or simply don't bother to tech.Y ou can force a wake-up there and enjoy Phase 4's incredibly violent wall game, since either 236T or any stun into wall-slamming move will get them in a world of hurt.So yeah like every gimmick, it gets stale pretty soon if you overuse it, but if you mix it up cleverly, you'll get at least some respect in the wake-up game every once in a while, which is always a nice plus
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I don't get out of your one-liner what K is and KK not, so mind to explain more detailed?
K is solid for reasons stated (and to combat i12 mids), KK is not on block because it is unsafe and if you commit to the follow up you're getting punished harder. KK is fine on hit confirm as a tooled-string but not as a generic poke string, was my point.
6P free cancels on block can also be thrown on pure reads because of the fact that the follow ups only put Phase 4 at risk. And once you start commiting to the follow ups against players that are paying attention, then you're furthering your own punishment.
6P is for counter hitting, and if you're wrong, you're at risk.
6P free cancels on block can also be thrown on pure reads because of the fact that the follow ups only put Phase 4 at risk. And once you start commiting to the follow ups against players that are paying attention, then you're furthering your own punishment.
6P is for counter hitting, and if you're wrong, you're at risk.
I see. KK gives you more advantage on hit because it's causing a deeper stun, which is still worth going for it imo. Also, "neutral" does not mean solely poking for me, because then I wouldn't have mentioned it.
I did not give any recommendation how to use 6P and it's cancel opportunities best, because that depends on yourself, your opponent and the mind game between both. It is still a good tool in neutral spacing and mid range situations due to having a better range as her jabs and being faster as her mid kicks.
While playing Phase, you are at risk in almost any situation when trying to open up your opponent, and since you are forced to fish for counter-hits out of neutral, 6P simply is one of the best tools to go for it. That's all I'm saying.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Yeah; He is saying he thinks it's fine to go for if you connect/hitconfirm CH K, just not if K gets blocked because at that point in the string all you have is the unsafe 3 in 1 at the end that starts high and the unsafe free cancel at KK.
In other words since KK has a little delay if you stop when K is blocked they have to respect KK more than they would have to respect KKK if you did KK on block. So I would say put it out there to make them respect your K but poke with K more often than KK.
As for 6P I also agree that its a necessary risk and with its usage as an intercept during spacing. But shit man; I can only imagine how you guys feel fighting characters like Busa, Tina and Bass. Fuckin get wrecked by 6T!!
In other words since KK has a little delay if you stop when K is blocked they have to respect KK more than they would have to respect KKK if you did KK on block. So I would say put it out there to make them respect your K but poke with K more often than KK.
As for 6P I also agree that its a necessary risk and with its usage as an intercept during spacing. But shit man; I can only imagine how you guys feel fighting characters like Busa, Tina and Bass. Fuckin get wrecked by 6T!!
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Ok, then scratch KK out of my list above.
D3taylz
Member
Interesting stuff man, thanks for posting, but PP6PK and 6PK goes to TEN~K which I assume you meant to write but put CHIFU by mistake. I could see this ender being useful for lower stun threshold combos, i.e. 1 hit to stun and then launch immediately and use this ender into the ground reset. If you can get a higher stun threshold it makes more sense to forgo the reset altogether and just go for damage (most of the time anyway).So at the end of a combo you want to use
On a related note I saw another forced reset in an online match (think it was XcaliburBlades playing P4). The tech starts with a juggle into TEN~P followed by PPP~CHI (into nothing) 9K. The empty Chifu teleport gives you a second to determine if they ground teched or not. If yes I believe you are plus (but I haven't verified or tested in the lab) if no, you should be able to buffer the 9K so it comes out ASAP and connects for the force tech.
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Another thing I started experimenting on, which I will post more about later in more detail once I've had more time to fully verify in the lab, is the possible follow-ups after an empty CHIFU teleport during a stun. For example, if you hit 6P CH -> 3P CHF~ (nothing) -> ... [what moves combo on fastest SE]
So far I've found even 33K (I think is 16f) will combo, meaning 7K, 4K, 3P, 6P, 2K, 6K, P+K and 8K all combo on fastest SE after a Chifu teleport within the stun threshold. I only tested this briefly so I'm not 100% sure that every move with a CHIFU cancel has the exact same frame advantage but I was able to successfully combo each of the follow-ups above after: 3P-> CHI, PPP CHI-> and P+K CHI -> So at first glance they all behave the same and give the same amount of frame advantage.
I think this is really pivotal to her game since her stun game is somewhat limited and the empty Chifu teleports open up more options and give Phase more flexibility. I think you can even throw punish if your opponent attempts a critical hold on reaction to the Chifu animation, i.e. they think you will go for Chi~K, but this I haven't tested either.
In any case it's worth mentioning and I think it needs to be explored further.
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Tenryuga gets it.
You did, the moment you listed it as a neutral tool. While it is one, it isn't one you can be so lenient on for what I've already said before and what you agreed with. And their is no mind game there for it on block, if we are playing offline and you are free cancelling 6P I'm going to throw you every time, lol.
I already said that right here;
You did, the moment you listed it as a neutral tool. While it is one, it isn't one you can be so lenient on for what I've already said before and what you agreed with. And their is no mind game there for it on block, if we are playing offline and you are free cancelling 6P I'm going to throw you every time, lol.
I already said that right here;
Zephyrion
Member
Thanks, corrected the mistake. Actually, this ender works well with a lot of combos while still retaining a decent damage output , since it still works after combos such as 4K>Chifu K>Tenfu P>5PP6PK, or after a wall slam,like 66P wall-slam > 8K> Tenfu P>5PP>6PK. you lose like 15-20 damage on these while still being to do the force tech ! it's actually the one good thing about this one : you can just stick it pretty much everywhere !
Also, nice to share the things you've already seen, I'll definitely try the 9K trick, it looks really neat !
I already looked into empty teleports a bit , and it's pretty neat, as you have a lot of freedom, even on fastest SE, a trick I love against people who hold is push them into critical threshold then Chifu empty teleport > 6P+K CB, This thing is nasty and efficient. Be wary though, the opponent can still hold early to recover fast enough to counter any empty teleport follow-up !
Zephyrion
Member
Aha that's hilarious ! You're probably right since 7K and 66PP are borrowed from Kasumi unlike the other TPs ! But it looks awesome though, hope they'll put it on the other moves as well !
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
That's what I thought as well but if so she would have it off of 3P+K too unless they only fixed that while forgetting the other two. Only thing it would be useful off of is a 3P+K so you could actually use it without having to hit someone.
Ok, well I tried a bit around with her . I noticed that when I do TEN~, the air throw does not always connect on lightweights. It tested it with and without high counter and fastest SE settings, sometimes it works, sometimes not. I can't figure out excactly what I'm doing wrong there, the timing feels quite strict to play around with it, so does that happen to anyone of you guys too?
. I noticed that when I do TEN~, the air throw does not always connect on lightweights. It tested it with and without high counter and fastest SE settings, sometimes it works, sometimes not. I can't figure out excactly what I'm doing wrong there, the timing feels quite strict to play around with it, so does that happen to anyone of you guys too?