System I don't think I understand this game.

[GLoRToR]

So after finishing the tutorial mode and the story mode and applying them to my own character... (why can't you do tutorial mode with your own character, why only one character?) ... I think I'm more confused than when I started.

I'm frustrated.

My current biggest problem:
- they block all my attacks and then no matter what I do they just keep coming.
But when I try the same, I get thrown
- if I try to to throw, I get hit and yet again they just come
and if I try to hold, I get thrown.
- if I try to throw, they hit me.

what am I doing wrong?

Also, they backstep me
- I try to backstep them and get hit.
- I try to hit, they backstep

what am I doing wrong?

 

[StrikerSashi]

Mind games? Getting a read on the opponent is important. Do a few low commitment pokes early on and see how they react. You can then form a strategy. It's fine to even throw the first round to see how the other guy deals with certain situations.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

So after finishing the tutorial mode and the story mode and applying them to my own character... (why can't you do tutorial mode with your own character, why only one character?) ... I think I'm more confused than when I started.

I'm frustrated.

My current biggest problem:
- they block all my attacks and then no matter what I do they just keep coming.
But when I try the same, I get thrown
- if I try to to throw, I get hit and yet again they just come
and if I try to hold, I get thrown.
- if I try to throw, they hit me.

what am I doing wrong?

Also, they backstep me
- I try to backstep them and get hit.
- I try to hit, they backstep

what am I doing wrong?

Is this based off playing the A.I.?

 

[deathofaninja]

Just mash buttons and something will hit eventually. If you try to be technical with the game, more than likely you will be punished.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Just mash buttons and something will hit eventually. If you try to be technical with the game, more than likely you will be punished.

Me being a calculative and technical player, I find this to be awful advice (and so would other technical players). As there is technicality to be had in the game.

@The OP: Assuming you are playing other players, DOA requires you to constantly adapt. The game often revolves around adaption, reaction and mind games (mix ups, free cancelling, pressure, conditioning, etc). The game also plays a bit heavy on throw punishment (which is free and guaranteed damage), which is why it is kind of a thing to know your frame data in DOA.

 

[deathofaninja]

Adapting to invisible attacks is more of a chore than it is fun. The topic poster makes some good points regardless of whether he is playing the computer or humans.

He is playing a game that has depth, but at the same time is fairly broken; perplexing and mind-boggling.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Adapting to invisible attacks is more of a chore than it is fun. The topic poster makes some good points regardless of whether he is playing the computer or humans.

He is playing a game that has depth, but at the same time is fairly broken; perplexing and mind-boggling.

You are adapting to patterns, not a movelist. Once you figure out what your opponent's play style is like, you make the necessary adjustments to their playstyle and the character to character match up. If you are able to adapt and react accordingly (aka you have a read on your opponent).

What "good" points has the OP made? That he doesn't understand how to play the game so far? That's exactly what I read. Saying "Hey just mash buttons till it works" is not actual sound advice to give a player that is actually trying to pick up this game. It is awful and it is not helpful to those that are looking for more solid suggestions to approach the game.

There is nothing broken in DOA, as this game and it's frames does not allow for any "broken" tech to be allowed in actual play.

If you do not have any real advice to give other players that may actually help them, then you should not attempt to give any, not even medicore advice.

 

[ScattereDreams]

Glator, it's the rules of the triangle system, and sadly almost everything on CH leads to getting stunned which can be annoying. Mostly DOA relies adapting, baiting, and conditioning them to do what you want them to do thats pretty much the gist of DOA in a nut shell.. I've been spending more time though playing VF since I feel like a have a fair chance with no matter who I use, I've gotten tired of the stun system over time... But yeah.. DOA = Adapt, bait, condition

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Glator, it's the rules of the triangle system, and sadly almost everything on CH leads to getting stunned which can be annoying. Mostly DOA relies adapting, baiting, and conditioning them to do what you want them to do thats pretty much the gist of DOA in a nut shell.. I've been spending more time though playing VF since I feel like a have a fair chance with no matter who I use, I've gotten tired of the stun system over time... But yeah.. DOA = Adapt, bait, condition

And reacting. DOA requires very good defense.

 

[MasterHavik]

DOA requires good defense? All I see is people fishing for holds and mash holds out of stun Low holding out of stun is not GOOD defense it's free damage for me.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

DOA requires good defense? All I see is people fishing for holds and mash holds out of stun Low holding out of stun is not GOOD defense it's free damage for me.

Good defense = Good reactions to throws, properly blocking, good spacing, footsies, whiff punishment, throw punishment, holds on reactions, correctly interrupting something. Yes, DOA requires good defense and fundamentals. Two things majority of players do not have in DOA.

 

[ScattereDreams]

Reacting to whiffed moves, and spacing/footsies is one thing. But "Reacting" to "i5 - i10" throws is not something everyone is capable of. hence why other fighters have throw break engines. Thats way to fast. At best players can anticipate their opponents actions to avoid getting thrown, playing as safe as possible (with very little safe moves), and incorporating fuzzy guarding. However, reacting to throws? I can barely react to i10 throws in Tekken which are breakable. Reacting to throws in DOA is a bit over the top. I'm not saying it's not possible, just a slim chance and not something everyone can be capable of, even if you train yourself to try to react to throws.

 

[MasterHavik]

Good defense = Good reactions to throws, properly blocking, good spacing, footsies, whiff punishment, throw punishment, holds on reactions, correctly interrupting something. Yes, DOA requires good defense and fundamentals. Two things majority of players do not have in DOA.

Ah I get you now. You're right a lot of DOA players lack them. I think I'm close to getting that down though. I just need t working timing holds better and not trying to space too much. My problem back in vanilla was that I was played too much defense and I would end up beating myself.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Reacting to whiffed moves, and spacing/footsies is one thing. But "Reacting" to "i5 - i10" throws is not something everyone is capable of. hence why other fighters have throw break engines. Thats way to fast. At best players can anticipate their opponents actions to avoid getting thrown, playing as safe as possible (with very little safe moves), and incorporating fuzzy guarding. However, reacting to throws? I can barely react to i10 throws in Tekken which are breakable. Reacting to throws in DOA is a bit over the top. I'm not saying it's not possible, just a slim chance and not something everyone can be capable of, even if you train yourself to try to react to throws.

It's not impossible to see throw animations for throws of i10 to i12 frames, Jule. How do you think the Ayane vs Genfu match up in CQC works, exactly? You can react to offensive holds as well, these things (including throws) require good training and cues for visual or sound (or both).

Just like players anticipate throws in SSF4 and break them sucessfully, you do the same in DOA by counter hitting or crouching throw attempts you know or can see coming. They take different approaches but have the same concept, the exception is that throws are punished by attacks in DOA, which is why counter hits are very successful against them (this is assuming you are blocking or staggering out of stun).

Throws breaks for neutral throws are a rare occurence in DOA because every other throw in DOA that is not a neutral throw aren't breakable, so players are not used to recognizing that. They are only used to seeing "I got thrown so I can't break it".

Yes, not everyone can react accordingly, but that doesn't mean no one can. Often times you are either guessing (most of the population does this), being conditioned, making reads, or reacting. In DOA, if you react correctly, your counter hit rewards you for it.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I don't know about you guys, but if I read a throw, I just strike. Preferably with a high crush and/or something that launches on CH. Majority of throws are way beyond reaction of a normal human. It's all yomi for me. OH are generally reactable if you spend time training against the matchup, so just throw out a 12f throw if they recognize that they're doing an OH.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I don't know about you guys, but if I read a throw, I just strike. Preferably with a high crush and/or something that launches on CH. Majority of throws are way beyond reaction of a normal human. It's all yomi for me. OH are generally reactable if you spend time training against the matchup, so just throw out a 12f throw if they recognize that they're doing an OH.

I said i10 and i12, lol. Seeing start up animation of these is not beyond human reaction. I think most of you guys are playing online.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Nah, I only play online when people invite me. Probably 95+% of my games are in locals. I can react to 12f throws only when I'm specifically watching for it. I can't keep up that amount of focus for longer than a few seconds.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Nah, I only play online when people invite me. Probably 95+% of my games are in locals. I can react to 12f throws only when I'm specifically watching for it. I can't keep up that amount of focus for longer than a few seconds.

I gotcha.

 

[Brute]

It would help if you told what character you're using. On a super-mega-basic level, analyze if your opponent likes to throw out holds often. If not, block their attack string, go with your fastest mid (this is where your character is imporant, as many have better follow-ups than others from this point). Once they're in stun, hit them with different free-canceled attacks until you reach a CB, or use a launcher immediately and get some free juggle damage. If they hold a lot, poke in odd places (know your character; don't abuse mid Ps with Leon or mid Ks with Rig) until they hold. Then, use your strongest throw.

 

[d3v]

Just like players anticipate throws in SSF4 and break them sucessfully, you do the same in DOA by counter hitting or crouching throw attempts you know or can see coming. They take different approaches but have the same concept, the exception is that throws are punished by attacks in DOA, which is why counter hits are very successful against them (this is assuming you are blocking or staggering out of stun).

This. Heck some of us old school SF players actually find SFIV's throw tech window to be too big since you can still react to the throw animation compared to 3S (where it's better to tech before they even throw you) and SF2/SFA2 (no tech/break).

Going back on topic, DOA5U requires the same fundamentals you have in any competitive fighting game. Heck, the people I know over here who play the game are actually coming in from other fighters, mostly 3rd Strike (because holds and guessing are similar to parries) and air-dash/anime fighters (dealing with holds out of stun is similar to dealing with burst).